Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
as far as those who think private business can refuse to make such orders if they want, please read the link i posted before about baker in colorado who was ordered by the judge to bake the ‘gay’ cake for a couple. even though gay marriage is not legal in colorado yet, the baker was still found guilty for refusing their order and many states donot allow private businesses to turn away customers just because they disagree with the kind of message placed on the order. but the amount of anti-gay sentiments on this thread are seriously extremely high which is not exactly surprising. many posts have equated gay to sinners thus somehow less deserving of equal treatment. thats whats really disturbing here.
even if you think that the baker had the right to refuse, at least have the decency to acknowledge discrimination when you see it.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
and i think when there is discrimination and anti-gay comments, i will speak against it. basic human rights and humanity teaches that all humans should be treated equally. i give more importance to human rights than any thing else. thats what i believe in. enough said?
the reason why i mentioned your double standard exposed is because of the comment you made regarding muslims in india being discriminated. if its wrong to discriminate muslims, its wrong to discriminate anyone based on sexual orientation as well.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
This is not abt India vs pak. My views on Modi is well known. YOU brought up Gandhi jayanthi. I stated eid or bakra eid - ok did not fall on Gandhi jayanthi last 3 years.
Let me try to clear up ur confusion. Since u stated muslims are being discriminated against by raising an issue where in the last 3 years it wasn’t even an issue I stated if u really want to eat beef u can buy it one day early.
In ur blind ideology, u refuse to see the logic. And that the same time insist the gays folks could have gone to another store. Hypocrite much?
When have I claimed india is without flaws. I have railed against right owing or gs everywhere india. Changing the goal post are we?
I don’t “hate” religious folks. I do call our SOME religious folks who use religion to divide. Kapish?
If u were serious abt debating honestly u would acknowledge that 364 out of 365 days muslims being able to buy beef is far from discrimination on THAT SPECIFIC ISSUE.
That Muslims are discriminated against in India is a fact. And unlike you, I would not deny facts to suit my “ideology”
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Everyone deserves equal treatment and discrimination did happen but its a private business. However its just silly being too outraged as I said its akin going to a Muslim meat shop and being offended if non-halal meat isn’t provided.
As for gay people being sinners that is between them and whichever God they believe in and unless a person is being harassed by a gay person I wouldn’t worry about it.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Yes. Enough said. This self evident truth should be obvious to ALL decent humans regardless of race religion or sexual orientation. Why is this difficult to comprehend?
Bella - this time I am out for good from this thread. Let me summarize
Some folks want to live and let live selectively. They want religious freedom but not freedom from bigotry. When u ask them specifics on what encompasses live and let live, their arguments crumble.
Hope to have the strength to not respond to any more nonsense wrapped in religious dogma.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Why are people so upset because someone who has their OWN BUSINESS doesn’t want to take an order. how can you force someone to do something they don’t want to do. It’s his choice it’s a free world.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
thats why I mentioned, even private business owners have to abide by state laws. Not sure how its regulated in Ireland where this particular story is from, but similar cases have happened in US, and in some of them, the judge did rule in the favor of the gay couples and the baker was ordered to make cakes. as far as non-halal meat, if you’re not selling it in your shop, customer cannot demand whats not in your shop. just like if a store or restaurant doesn’t sell alcohol the customer cannot complain why they are not able to buy it from there. but if they have that on the menu, they cannot refuse on basis of any thing. for example, if the baker doesn’t make any wedding cake, he cannot be forced to make a wedding cake for gay couples either. but to refuse because you dont want to put names of 2 men together or put 2 male figures on top of the wedding cake, that comes under discrimination in many states in US. one christian baker simply refused to make ALL wedding cakes when he was forced by the judge to not turn away gay wedding cakes. if you refuse all cakes you cannot be forced to make one for gay couples either.
initially,I was also under the assumption that a private business can refuse anyone whos the judge to force them? that being said, the same reason was being used when racial segregation was allowed for private businesses but had to stop as part of civil rights movement. even private business are regulated for these things. again it depends on what the judge rules here. in most places in US, such action will be considered illegal.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
^i don’t have queries. this thread is not about queries really, its about opinion. and i have stated my opinion on this matter already, i was only explaining to shak what he had quoted me on.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
I don’t understand this. A Christian shopkeeper has to serve Gay people. Accepted. However he should not be forced to draw a cartoon that goes against his or her beliefs. That’s a valid opinion and a valid choice even if we do not like it regardless of what laws exist or not.
I am all for equal rights whether its gay marriage or not but here I can’t see a problem. Any self-respecting homosexual should not go somewhere where they are not accepted. Its common sense. And if they do then they shouldn’t really whine regardless of whether it was legal or not, its silly.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Baker’s discrimination vs Customer’s coercion. To summarize, it’s nothing but allowing gays their rights while allowing them to step on the toes of the religious people. All it is.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
No, he’s not a fake liberal. Bring liberal is about going against religious restrictions…to have lax views about them…so it’s not surprising to see them support gay marriage, etc etc. Naturally as a result, the religious people’s rights will be infringed upon; it’s a no-brainer. His liberal values are not fake. Open-mindedness however is questionable.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
I wouldn’t go where i am not accepted either but at the same time, same thing could be said about those who fought segregation rather than just accepting to go some other place where they were welcome. Why do you think judge ruled in favor of a gay couple here in US and the baker was ordered to make the desired cake with the 2 male figures on top of it? why did the judge ‘force’? im pretty sure the couple could have gone some where else too but thats not the point. here is what the judge ruled in the case in US:
*baking cakes wasnot an issue of free speech, did not constitute part of the baker’s religious observance and therefore was not protected under laws that allow clergy to refuse to marry gay couples, for example. * However, the courts considered that that right to free speech must be weighed against the rights of gay people not to be discriminated against, and thus far have come down on the side of gay rights against free speech rights.
My gay friend could go down the street, of course, to find another baker – but that’s a form of segregation and discrimination which we’ve long decided not to tolerate for other minorities of race and religion.
I can see why there is arguments on both sides here (not here on GS as we can see there is pretty much just one side here, but i mean in US and europe) as one can see freedom of expression, speech vs discrimination.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Thank you. I had indicated earlier that the courts in N Ireland will decide. Thanks for providing perspective with the US courts judgment link.
As for the argument the gays could go elsewhere, as pointed out earlier to Slims, that is indeed one option. Some may choose that for themselves. But others may choose a different route. They may choose to exercise their civil rights by going to court.
Just as the bakers r fighting for their religious right, the gays here r exercising their right to challenge the notion that this is abt religious right. The courts will decide.
There r two sides to this issue. Not one. Let the courts decide. Meanwhile let us examine what we truly mean by “live and let live”.
Sorry - had to come back to commend u on such a sensible response. How the heck did u get so wise. Having a contrarian worldview in and of itself is neither here nor there. But holding on to a noble position regardless of how many are on the other side is a unique quality. Humbled by your posts.
