Like I said before.
Stop wasting my time, you are nothing but Cult Members.
The proof is in the pudding!
When the Qur'aan and Muhammed PBUH has predicted you lot, then no other evidence is required.
Mr. Changez_Like;
When Hazrat Isa came in Jews, Jews mostly rejected him because thay thought that before Masih, Alyah (Hazrat Ilyas) was to come from Heavens.
It is written in bible that before Masih, Alyah shall come from heavens who was taken up towards heavens in early times.
But alyah did not come from Heavens and Masih came. Jews rejected him to be the true Masih due to this reason.
Note: Jews are still waiting for Alyah who is to come from Heavens before True Masih. You can confirm this fact from any Jew. It is not difficult. Just search a JEW website. Send them an email and ask from them about this fact.
So Alyah did not come before Masih and Jews asked Masih about Alyah.
Note the Answer of Masih:
Masih told Jews that which Alyah was to come Has already come and he is Yohana (Hazrat Yahya), If you want then accept him as Alyah and not accept if you not want.
Note: All this story is evident from Bible. You can also personally verify it from any Jew Website. You can also verify that Jews are still waiting for Alyah who was to come from Heavens before True Masih…..
Conclusion:
After analyzing this example we can understand that** in such type of predictions (i.e, where it is foretold that an old prophet shall again come on this earth), The true meaning is that another prophet shall come who shall resemble to the old one in various characteristics. And due to these similarities in characteristics, he (the new prophet) would be given the name of old prophet.**
Mr. Changez_Like,
What you think, if true Promissed Masih and Imam Mehdi (if have not come yet) come in your life time (May Allah give you long life), whether it would be mendetory on you to accept him or it would be optional for Muslims to accept him???
Mr,
Special about him is that a good number of ahadith tell you about him and while rejecting him you are actually rejecting those ahadith.
Mr. Changez_Like,
Even after this we do not consider his non-believers as non-Muslims or Koffer in any way. Some one has given you wrong information.
**For human Being, Non-Muslim or Koffer is only one who expressly declares that Allah is not one and Muhammad (PBUH) is not his prophet. In other words Non-Muslim or Koffer is one who expressly reject Kalima-e-Tayeba.
However there is a single condition on above rule and this condition is set by Holy Prophet himself. According to this condition if a Muslim call other “Kalima-Go” Muslim as koffer then that “Kuffar” comes on to himself.**
And with canceling Jizia or so called Jahad (True Jahad is not cancelled by him) he has not brought any new shariah. It is mentioned in Shariah (i.e, in various ahadith) that promissed Masih shall cancel Jizia…
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Babar
Before you even think about getting any answers, please comment on Mirzas actual writings. These are not Pakistani folklore:
"Jesus's three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood Jesus came into existence."
(Anjam-i-Atham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 291, addenda; Anjam-i-Atham, P. 9, appendix)
How can you be so stupid and associate these comments to the 'Jesus of the Christians'.
Who do you think the Qur'aan refers to when talking about Jesus.
061.006 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
005.049 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
019.034 Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
019.035 It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
This is the same Jesus of the Christians!
So it is a FACT that Mirza slandered Jesus.
Moving onto Muhammed PBUH, once again these are the actual writings of Mirza:
"One who denies that the mission of the Prophet(SAW) is related to the 6th thousand (13th century) as it was related to 5th thousand (6th century), denies the truth and the text of the Quran and is among the zalemeen (gone astray). The truth is that the spiritual power of the holy Prophet(SAW) at the end of the 6th thousand (13th century in Mirza Ghulam), i.e. these days, is much stronger, more complete and stronger than in those early years. Nay, it is like the fourteenth (moonlit) night (full moon)."
(Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 271-272; Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181)
As I have stated before, in line with Qur'aan and Kalimah, the followers of Mirza are Kafirs, just like Mirza was.
If you feel that you can deny my comments, I will hereby prove to you once and for all.
The Qur'aan makes it clear:
002.008 Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
024.047 They say, "We believe in Allah and in the apostle, and we obey": but even after that, some of them turn away: they are not (really) Believers.
This applies to you lot as you do not really believe in Muhammaed PBUH, as Mirza made it quite clear that he was the better than Muhammed PBUH!
"It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(SAW)."
(Al-Fadl, July 17, 1922, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)
"[It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles...] My Miracles exceed one million in number."
(Tadhkirah tul Shahadatain, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 20, P. 43)
Moving onto the Kalimah Shahaadat, you do not recite as Muslims do:
In short, the Qadiani Religion has retained the same words of the Kalimah, but the Qadiani belief has changed the meaning of the Kalimah. In the Kalimah of the Muslims "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Muhammad of Arabia(SAW), but in the Qadiani Kalimah "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Mirza Qadiani as Muhammad incarnate, reborn in the world as a prophet for the second time. Thus it is said:
"Moreover, even if we accept by supposing the impossible that the sacred name of the gracious Prophet has been included in the sacred Kalimah because he is the last of the Prophets, even then there is no harm and we do not need a new Kalimah because the promised Masih is not a separate entity from the gracious Prophet as he (Mirza) himself says: "My being is exactly the being of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah". Also, "One who discriminates between me and Mustafa has neither recognized me nor seen me". And the reason for this is Allah Almighty's promise that He would reincarnate "Khatam-un-Nabieen" in this world once more as a prophet as is evident from the verse "And others of them"... Thus the promised Masih (Mirza of Qadian) is himself Muhammad ur Rasulullah, who has been incarnated in the world again to spread Islam. We do not, therefore, need any new Kalimah. Albeit, a new Kalimah would have been necessary, if some other person had been reincarnated instead of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah. So contemplate!" (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 158).
Therefore, your own teachings clearly state that the Kalimah is targeted towards Mirza and not Muhammed PBUH, when reciting.
"My teachings contain orders as well as prohibitions and renovation of important injunctions of the Shari'at. For this reason, God has named my teachings and the 'wahi' (revelation) that comes to me as a 'boat. Thus see, God has declared my 'wahi', my teachings and allegiance with me to be Noah's Ark and the basis of salvation for all human beings. Let he who has eyes may see and he who has ears may hear." (Arbaeen, Vol. 4, footnote of P. 6; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 435).
Thus obedience to Mirza Qadiani's prophethood, teachings, 'wahi' and his renovated Shari'at is allegedly the only basis for salvation for all mankind. This only means, that the Shari'at of Muhammad of Arabia(SAW), his teachings and 'wahi' are no longer the basis of salvation. In other words, Mirza's incarnation has rendered all these useless, suspended and abolished!
The Qur'aan and Books:
057.025 We sent aforetime our apostles with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His apostles: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will).
022.008 Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without
Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-
035.024 Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).
035.025 And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their apostles with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment.
The above ayat makes it quite clear that all Apostles came with a Book.
Where is Mirzas Book!
Please do not waste my time anymore.**
[/quote]
Mr. sholay;
I am still waiting for my outstanding question.
Following is presented by you;
"Jesus's three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood Jesus came into existence."
(Anjam-i-Atham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 291, addenda; Anjam-i-Atham, P. 9, appendix)
How can you be so stupid and associate these comments to the 'Jesus of the Christians'.
Who do you think the Qur'aan refers to when talking about Jesus.
*My Answer:
You himself have presented the proof which I wanted to tell you.
See the Name of the Book which is “Anjaam-e-Atham.”
Atham was a Chriestian Scholar (Padri). His full name was Mr. Padri Abdullah Atham.
He was a shameless person in his writings against our Holy Prophet (PBUH).
He often used hard words against our Holy Prophet(pbuh).
Mirza Sahib already had defeated him on a Munazara Which was between Muslims and Chriestians.
The Muslims who arranged for this “Munazara” were not the follower of Hazrat Mirza Sahib *But they requested Hazrat Mirza Sahib to take part in this Munazara because they knew that it was only and only Hazrat Mirza Sahib who could defeate Chriestians.
So Mirza Sahib clearly defeated Padri Abdullah Atham in this Munazara.
This man Padri Abdullah Atham later on was died according to the foretold of Mirza Sahib.
This Book i.e, Anjaam-e-Atham was written by Hazrat Mirza Sahib to show Mirror to other Christians who put shameful blames against our Holy Prophet(pbuh).
Mr. Sholay;
It is true according to Bible that:
"Jesus's three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood Jesus came into existence."
And this argument was used by Mirza Sahib Against those Chriestians who used to attack on the personality of Holy Prophet(pbuh) in shameful way in their writings. And this effort of Mirza Sahib was just Answer and not an attack.
Mr. Sholay;
If you are infact defending Chriestiens or if you are chriestian infact then listen it carefully that according to your Bible, it is true that;
"Jesus's three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood Jesus came into existence."
But if you are Muslim, then you do not have to worry. Because you are the follower of Quran and not the follower of Bible.
Unlike Bible, Quran introduces us about Hazrat Isa who was pious by his family. So you do not have to worry.
Mr. Sholay;
Just as your first attack on Mirza Sahib is based on your little knowledge and is wrong, so is the case with your remaining attacks.
I already have told you that you can find such type of Blames against any spiritual personality of the world in some literature and Negative websites. So you are just wasting your time in collecting this useless material.
I again tell you that you should read these original Books. When you shall read these statements with context, you shall found no objectionable thing in it.
**
After your false Blames you have presented following verses of Quran to show that you have right to call Ahmedies as Non-Muslim or Koffer…
002.008 Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
024.047 They say, "We believe in Allah and in the apostle, and we obey": but even after that, some of them turn away: they are not (really) Believers.
**
But you are totally failed in doing so.
Tell me who knows that :
1- they do not (really) believe.
2- They are not (really) believers.
You or Allah???????????????????????????????????????????
**
Following is your claim:
Moving onto the Kalimah Shahaadat, you do not recite as Muslims do:
**Mr. sholay, we recite the Kalimah Shahaadat in the same way as is recited by Sunnies.
You are totally wrong in your claim. And you cannot prove your claim.
However I can prove that you people have now invented a new Kalima-e-Shahadat. You have included in old Kalima-e-Shahadat an official (and Compulsory) declaration that “I believe that Now No Prophet shall come”.
In original kalmia-e-Shahadat, there is no such declaration. Therefore you people have now invented a NEW Kalima-e-Shahadat.
What you have presented in support of your claim I shall give its answer in my next post with some detail.
**
You have presented the following:
"My teachings contain orders as well as prohibitions and renovation of important injunctions of the Shari'at. For this reason, God has named my teachings and the 'wahi' (revelation) that comes to me as a 'boat. Thus see, God has declared my 'wahi', my teachings and allegiance with me to be Noah's Ark and the basis of salvation for all human beings. Let he who has eyes may see and he who has ears may hear." (Arbaeen, Vol. 4, footnote of P. 6; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 435).
**
Mr. Sholay;
Since you do not have eyes so you cannot see and since you do not have ears so you cannot hear.
Hazrat Mirza Sahib is absolutely right in all his sayings because he is true Promissed Masih and he has come exactly according to the ahadith of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
**
And following is your false conclusion on this statement.
”Thus obedience to Mirza Qadiani's prophethood, teachings, 'wahi' and his renovated Shari'at is allegedly the only basis for salvation for all mankind. This only means, that the Shari'at of Muhammad of Arabia(SAW), his teachings and 'wahi' are no longer the basis of salvation. In other words, Mirza's incarnation has rendered all these useless, suspended and abolished! “
My Response:
Mirza Sahib’s Wahi is exactly according to the Shariah of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) therefore the true basis of salvation is still the Shariah of prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
Your Next Attempt:
The Qur'aan and Books:
057.025 We sent aforetime our apostles with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His apostles: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will).
022.008 Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without
Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-
035.024 Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).
035.025 And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their apostles with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment.
The above ayat makes it quite clear that all Apostles came with a Book.
**My Response:
Not All Prophets brought their own Books. Fact is quite clear. Singular Noun “Book” is used and Plural Noun “Apostles” is used.
You can go so far just to show that Ahmedies are wrong that you can put back the established facts. Shame on You.
Just consider the ayet (5:44) which states the following:
“And infact we descendent the Toraat in which there was light and lesson, through which Messengers who were obedient and Alims, (both) were witness over it because it was intended from them to safeguard the Allah’s book. And they decided among Jews……………..”
(5:44)
Note: I have translated this ayet in English from Urdu Translation. For accuracy of translation, you should consult any Urdu Translation.
This ayet clearly shows that there were many messengers who were followers of Toraat and their main function was to safeguard the Allah’s Book and to decide among Jews according to this book.
However if you think that all apostles were given their own book of Shariah, then before asking about the Book of Hazrat Mirza Sahib, you show us the books of Hazrat Nooh, Hazrat Shoab, Hazrat Ismael, Hazrat Ishaq, Hazrat Yaqoob etc etc.
**
And give me the Answer of my question that there were already a Nation before you people who also had this false belief that now no prophet shall come.
Mr. Sholar:
In your last post you have presented the following two statements from Ahmediah Literature:
In short, the Qadiani Religion has retained the same words of the Kalimah, but the Qadiani belief has changed the meaning of the Kalimah. In the Kalimah of the Muslims "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Muhammad of Arabia(SAW), but in the Qadiani Kalimah "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Mirza Qadiani as Muhammad incarnate, reborn in the world as a prophet for the second time. Thus it is said:
"Moreover, even if we accept by supposing the impossible that the sacred name of the gracious Prophet has been included in the sacred Kalimah because he is the last of the Prophets, even then there is no harm and we do not need a new Kalimah because the promised Masih is not a separate entity from the gracious Prophet as he (Mirza) himself says: "My being is exactly the being of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah". Also, "One who discriminates between me and Mustafa has neither recognized me nor seen me". And the reason for this is Allah Almighty's promise that He would reincarnate "Khatam-un-Nabieen" in this world once more as a prophet as is evident from the verse "And others of them"... Thus the promised Masih (Mirza of Qadian) is himself Muhammad ur Rasulullah, who has been incarnated in the world again to spread Islam. We do not, therefore, need any new Kalimah. Albeit, a new Kalimah would have been necessary, if some other person had been reincarnated instead of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah. So contemplate!" (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 158).
"It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(SAW)."
(Al-Fadl, July 17, 1922, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)
**My Response:
Mr. Sholay,
You people can present one or two of this type of statements because their Number is small.
There are another lot of other statements in which it is clearly mentioned that Mirza Sahib is only the slave of Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) and his knowledge when compared with the knowledge of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is just like a drop before the Ocean etc etc etc.
My question here is that why you do not present those statements and why you present only these statements?????????
This fact shows that yours is Only Negative Intention…………………
However I shall give you the satisfactory answer of these statements:
You people do mistake when you consider Hazrat Mirza sahib as a common person. He is TRUE PROMISSED MASIH. So many ahadith tell you about him. There is foretold about him in Quran also. Hazrat Mirza sahib was a great religious and spiritual personality. You may not completely understand some of his writings because you can take the PHYSICAL meanings of these writings.
We also may not be able to know in depth of such statements BUT WE DO KNOW that these statements DO NOT HAVE PHYSICAL MEANINGS.
For us true meaning of such statements is only and only that Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) is the perfect prophet and Hazrat Mirza Sahib is the Perfact Lover of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
These statements are example of “ARIFAANA KALAAM” for which you cannot take PHYSICAL MEANINGS.
In my NEXT post I shall give you some examples of this type of “Arifaana Kalaam” by other Muslim Scholars, so that you may understand true meaning of these statements.
Wait for My Next POST.**
Babar
So the fact is that Jesus's ancestors were fornicators and prostitutes! According to your logic, which Mirza used as an argument towards the Christians for slandering the Prophet PBUH.
Furthermore:
"I do not think that Jesus observed any abstinence from wine."
(Review of Religions, Vol. 1, P. 124, 1902)
"Once a friend advised me that opium is good for diabetes and, with that excuse, there is no harm in taking it. I replied 'thank you very much for your kind advice. However, if I get into the habit of using opium, I am afraid that people will mock that the first Messiah (Jesus) was an alcoholic and the second (Mirza himself) was a drug addict."
(Nasim-i-Dawat, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 434; Nasim-i-Dawat, P. 66-67)
"Then surprisingly hazrat Eisa (Jesus), peace be upon him, did not practice the moral teachings himself."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 20, P. 346)
"God, in keeping to his promise has power over everything. But, he can never send a person (Jesus) to this world the second time, whose first coming caused so much harm."
(Dafi'-ul-Bala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 235)
What's the excuse on the above! Jews this time round?
The irony is that The Prophet PBUH never ever used this course of action against any other Messenger, despite the slandering by the Jews and Christians of the Prophet PBUH in his own lifetime.
But your Cult leader decided to use this as a basis and then later claimed he was this son of Prostitutes!
Wow!
As I have stated time and time again, the Qur'aan calls you Non-Believers, which in turn means Kuffar, therefore the whole Muslim movement has confirmed this.
You are not classed or accepted as Muslims, due to your false Kalimah and non acceptance of all the Prophets as stated in the Qur'aaan. Jesus is a prime example.
In time you will no doubt claim that Mirza came with another book which is in higher esteem than the Qur'aan.
It is absolutely pointless asking for any further explanations from you as your reasons are absolutely pathetic.
Just for the record my questions of appprox 3 weeks ago concerning Mirza and his FALSE PROPHECIES! are still outstanding and always be.
Maybe you will amuse us even more with your reason of thinking and logic!
I think you should defect from the Ahmedy movement and become a member of a Political Party, who as you are well aware, never answer any questiions that are put to them and in turn give absolutely ludicrous answers totally avoiding the subject.
Having said that, you already are a member of a Political Cult Party!
And Mr. sholay:
Following are some references of such "Ariffana Kalaam" of other Muslim scholars for which YOU CANNOT TAKE THE PHYSICAL MEANINGS. So if Miza Sahib has also written something in this same manner then you also should not take their PHYSICAL meaning.Here are some such references.
- Once Hazrat Umer (RA) introduced Hazrat Abi-Kaab before others in following words:
“Syed-al-Mursaaleen Abi Kaab”
(al-adab Al mufrad lil-Bukhari---- Chepter alkharak page 69)
- Hazrat Syed Abdul Qadir Jelaani has written for himself:
“This is not the “Wajood” of Abdul Qadir but it is the “Wajood” of Muhammad (pbuh).”
(Sorry for I just missed to collect the name of reference book. I shall give you if you ask)
- It is written for Hazrat Baa Yazeed Bastaami (RA):
Once some one asked from him:
Asked what is “ARSH”?
Told “I am”.
Asked what is “Kursi”?
Told “I am”.
Asked what is “Looh”
Told “I am”.
Asked Ibraheem, Musa and Muhammad (pbuh) are “Barguzeeda” slaves of Allah.
Told “I am”.
(Tazkara-Tul-Awoliah Urdu, Chepter 14 page 128….Published by Sheikh Barkat Ali & Sons)
- It is written for Hazrat Khawaja Mueen-ul-Din Chushti Ajmeri(RA).
A person requested Hazrat Khawaja Sahib to make him his “Mureed”.
Hazrat Sahib asked him to say:
“La illaha illa Allah-Chushti Rasool-ul-Allah.”
That person did so and became his Mureed.
(Hassnat-ul-Arfeen-Persian-page 19)
- Hazrat Abu-al-Hasan Kharqani once said:
“I am god of the age and I am Mustafa of the age”
(Tazkara-Tul-Awoliah Urdu Page 368 chepter 77—published by Malik Din Muhammad & sons Lahore)
**Note that this type of "Ariffana Kalam" is not against Quran in any way.
There is mention in Quran that Allah says(on the occession of Bait-e-Rizwan "which hand is above their hands is not yours but it is Allah's hand"
Mr. Sholay can you take the physical meaning of this: And can you say that Hazrat Muhammad(pbuh) was Allah?????
Similerly Allah says that "You have not not thrown stones upon them but Allah has thrown"
Mr. Sholay you cannot take the PHYSICAL MEANING OF ALL SUCH STATEMENTS.
Therefore you MUST not take the Physical Meaning of some Ahmediah Statements with the intention of deceiving others.
Or you should take the physical meanings of all the above examples.
I still have lot of examples but I think that this is enough for you.
**
[This message has been edited by babar123 (edited July 02, 2001).]
how would “aarifaana kalaam” explain rising of someone else above Prophet PBUH from his ummah? lets wait for another twisted answer
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Babar
So the fact is that Jesus's ancestors were fornicators and prostitutes! According to your logic, which Mirza used as an argument towards the Christians for slandering the Prophet PBUH.
Furthermore:
"I do not think that Jesus observed any abstinence from wine."
(Review of Religions, Vol. 1, P. 124, 1902)
"Once a friend advised me that opium is good for diabetes and, with that excuse, there is no harm in taking it. I replied 'thank you very much for your kind advice. However, if I get into the habit of using opium, I am afraid that people will mock that the first Messiah (Jesus) was an alcoholic and the second (Mirza himself) was a drug addict."
(Nasim-i-Dawat, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 434; Nasim-i-Dawat, P. 66-67)
"Then surprisingly hazrat Eisa (Jesus), peace be upon him, did not practice the moral teachings himself."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 20, P. 346)
"God, in keeping to his promise has power over everything. But, he can never send a person (Jesus) to this world the second time, whose first coming caused so much harm."
(Dafi'-ul-Bala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 235)
What's the excuse on the above! Jews this time round?
The irony is that The Prophet PBUH never ever used this course of action against any other Messenger, despite the slandering by the Jews and Christians of the Prophet PBUH in his own lifetime.
But your Cult leader decided to use this as a basis and then later claimed he was this son of Prostitutes!
Wow!
As I have stated time and time again, the Qur'aan calls you Non-Believers, which in turn means Kuffar, therefore the whole Muslim movement has confirmed this.
You are not classed or accepted as Muslims, due to your false Kalimah and non acceptance of all the Prophets as stated in the Qur'aaan. Jesus is a prime example.
In time you will no doubt claim that Mirza came with another book which is in higher esteem than the Qur'aan.
It is absolutely pointless asking for any further explanations from you as your reasons are absolutely pathetic.
Just for the record my questions of appprox 3 weeks ago concerning Mirza and his FALSE PROPHECIES! are still outstanding and always be.
Maybe you will amuse us even more with your reason of thinking and logic!
I think you should defect from the Ahmedy movement and become a member of a Political Party, who as you are well aware, never answer any questiions that are put to them and in turn give absolutely ludicrous answers totally avoiding the subject.
Having said that, you already are a member of a Political Cult Party!**
[/quote]
Mr. Sholay:
I think that I have told you enough on the Issue of Hazrat Isa. You shall never understand if you do not WANT to understand.
I have given all the answers of your questions. I had forgotten about that single question which is still outstanding and I already have asked you to ask me again that question because I have forgotten what the question was.
But only for keeping in record you have again not told me about that question but have reminded of that (about which I do not know and I already have asked from you about it).
**But Mr. Sholay you have not given the answers of most of my questions. AND I KNOW that you are not able to give those answers.
To escape those questions you are again and again putting the same questions for which I have given you SATISFACTORY answers.
**
Mr. sholay;
following are your words in your Last post:
"You are not classed or accepted as Muslims, due to your false Kalimah and non acceptance of all the Prophets as stated in the Qur'aaan. Jesus is a prime example."
Mr. Sholat:
Go back and read the Kalima of Hazrat Khawaja Mueen-ul-Din chushti (RA)
**
and if your mind is in fact out of order then ask this question from us again.**
Mr. Changez_Like
Do not do mistake of taking physical meanings.
If you take physical meanings then according to Quran “the hand above them is not yours but the hand of Allah”
You will have to accept that Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH) was Allah.
Review again the following example:
Hazrat Abu-al-Hasan Kharqani once said:
“I am god of the age and I am Mustafa of the age”
And please do not take its physical Meaning.
Keep yourself upto that level which can be understood by you.
However if you insist to take the Physical meanings of some Ahmedia statements then take the physical meanings of all the examples presented by me in my previous post.
And also take the physical meaning of Quranic ayets according to which (physical meanings) Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is Allah.
Mr. Sholay;
- We believe in Allah
- We believe in Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) to be the prophet of Allah
- We believe in Books of Allah
- We believe in all the Messengers of Allah.
- We believe in "Malayeka"
- We believe in the day of judgment.
- We believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the perfact prophet and we believe him as the seal of prophets.
- We believe Hazrat Isa to be the true Messenger of Allah.
**And therefore we consider ourself MUSLIMS.
We do not care whether you consider us Muslim or not.
We do not need your confirmation in any way.
It is upto you that you consider us Non-Muslim.
But listen it very carefully:
Muslim sact of Ahmedia is spreading fast in all over the world.
It is exactly according to the foretolds of Hazrat Mirza sahib.
Only two days before I was chatting with my Cousin who lives in USA. He at that time was ready to go to attend the Valeema of his friend who was newly converted to ahmediyat from Christianity.
It is quite common in world. There is rush of people all over the world to accept ahmediyat.
Why???
Because Ahmediyat is the Awakning of Islam after a sleep.
Mr. Sholay;
Do whatever you can do but you cannot stop Ahmediyat from spreading in all over the world.
Mr. Sholay;
According to Quran, Sunnah and Hadith, we are Muslims
But
According to that constitution of Pakistan which is not there is Pakistan we are Non-Muslims.
We are proud to be TRUE MUSLIMS.
WE do not care to be Constitutional Non-Muslims.
Keep your constitution in your Hand. But It shall not help you when you will be in Hell fire.
[quote]
Originally posted by babar123:
**Mr. Sholay;
- We believe in Allah
- We believe in Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) to be the prophet of Allah
- We believe in Books of Allah
- We believe in all the Messengers of Allah.
- We believe in "Malayeka"
- We believe in the day of judgment.
- We believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the perfact prophet and we believe him as the seal of prophets.
- We believe Hazrat Isa to be the true Messenger of Allah.
**And therefore we consider ourself MUSLIMS.
We do not care whether you consider us Muslim or not.
We do not need your confirmation in any way.
It is upto you that you consider us Non-Muslim.
But listen it very carefully:
Muslim sact of Ahmedia is spreading fast in all over the world.
It is exactly according to the foretolds of Hazrat Mirza sahib.
Only two days before I was chatting with my Cousin who lives in USA. He at that time was ready to go to attend the Valeema of his friend who was newly converted to ahmediyat from Christianity.
It is quite common in world. There is rush of people all over the world to accept ahmediyat.
Why???
Because Ahmediyat is the Awakning of Islam after a sleep.
Mr. Sholay;
Do whatever you can do but you cannot stop Ahmediyat from spreading in all over the world.
Mr. Sholay;
According to Quran, Sunnah and Hadith, we are Muslims
But
According to that constitution of Pakistan which is not there is Pakistan we are Non-Muslims.
We are proud to be TRUE MUSLIMS.
WE do not care to be Constitutional Non-Muslims.
Keep your constitution in your Hand. But It shall not help you when you will be in Hell fire.
**
[/quote]
ahaan! so you got the authority to send Mr Sholay to hell.... hmmm is that due to Mr Ghulam Mirza ??
again... spreading FAST does not certify the true being of a religion.. does it? Christianity is also spreading fast in India... Christianity is a winner? Agha Khanis are working similar to you... providing people with the support they are looking for in social life (most of the time its MONEY) they are converting people into Agha Khani so AGHA KHANI is a winner?
your religion is supported by anti Islamic elements like British, Germany, while in Quran Allah said that you cannot take them as friends, they are your worst enemy. and you think these countries are "friendly" and "supportive" for you, wow, they've supported you just to create another faction in Islam... DIVIDE and RULE is their motto.
if you have to talk about prophecies then why don't you respond to ALL the prophecies of Mirza Ghulam as indicated by Bro Sholay in so many threads??
again, 'RUSHING' as you describe towards Ahmediyat is not a CERTIFICATION to be TRUE. brother, this is not a race, this is religion. ALLAH will tell us all who was successful in this world.
NOTE: Answer to your ONE message:
you said :
**So Alyah did not come before Masih and Jews asked Masih about Alyah.
Note the Answer of Masih:
Masih told Jews that which Alyah was to come Has already come and he is Yohana (Hazrat Yahya), If you want then accept him as Alyah and not accept if you not want.
Note: All this story is evident from Bible. You can also personally verify it from any Jew Website. You can also verify that Jews are still waiting for Alyah who was to come from Heavens before True Masih…..
Conclusion:
After analyzing this example we can understand that in such type of predictions (i.e, where it is foretold that an old prophet shall again come on this earth), The true meaning is that another prophet shall come who shall resemble to the old one in various characteristics. And due to these similarities in characteristics, he (the new prophet) would be given the name of old prophet. **
well well well... now we are referring to JEWS and CHRISTIAN books to 'authenticate' you. please REFER ONLY TO QURAN, which is our absolute reference.
also, in your message you AGREED that ALYA was "ASCENDED" and "resent" as YOUHANA (YAHYA AS)... so why do you have problems when Muslims say that Hazrat Essa (AH) was ascended??? and will come again.
you also tend to ignore the ahadith which are against any prophet's coming, you pick stories from Bible, Torat (making them as reference) just to support your cause. can we be Muslims and REFER ONLY TO QURAN and AHADITH?
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited July 02, 2001).]
As I have previously stated. I will refrain from asking many more questions from the Cult Members as the answers are self explanatory.
However, what I will state is that they are nothing more and nothing less than Worshippers of the British Government who are their True Masters, as exposed below.
Acepting the British as their Masters is an Article of Faith as laid down by Mirza:
"My father was a well-known landlord in this country and he enjoyed great eminence in the Government's offices. He was a true devotee and well wisher of the British Government. In the mutiny of 1857 (the Muslim independence movement against colonialism is called 'mutiny' by Mirza), my father supplied fifty horses and riders to aid the British Government. For this favor to the Government, he was very popular among the officials."
(Izala-e-Auham,
"I am scion of a family which the English Government acknowledges to be faithful to it. British officers have also admitted that my father and my people are amongst those who served the Government in all sincerity and with heart and soul. I can not find the words to express my homage and gratitude to the beneficent Government on account of the peace and composure which we have found as subjects of the Government. For this reason, we - myself, my father and my brother - have girded up our loins that we will exhibit the favors and advantages of this Government, make obedience to it incumbent on the people and embed it in their hearts."
(Tabligh-e-Risalat, Vol. 7, P. 8-9)
"The majority of people who have joined my sect are those who are either holding eminent posts with the British Court, or the goodly rich men, their servants and friends or businessmen, lawyers or those educated in the modern way or such famous scholars, servants and noblemen who have either served the British Government in the past or are serving it at present or their relations or friends who accepted the influence of their elders and the weekly holders of the office of the caretakers of some religious orders. In short, this is a party which is the protege of the British Government from whom it has earned good name and who is worthy of the Government's favors. Or it consists of people who are related to me or are among my servants."
(Poster dated Feb. 24, 1897;
Tabligh-e-Risalat, Vol. 7, P. 18
"No doubt my faith and doctrine, which I stress, is that Islam is composed of two parts. One is obedience to Allah and the other is obedience to the Government which has created peace and under whose protection we are safe from oppressors - that is the British Government.
(Shahadat-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 380;
Shahadat-ul-Quran, P. 86)
In accepting the above as an Article of Faith, the Ahmedy Cultists have disobeyed a direct Order from Allah as stated in the Qur'aan:
O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maeda, 5:57)
Finally, you are the ENEMIES of Islam. Read the following:
"Hundreds of Ahmadis joined the British Army to conquer Iraq and shed their blood on the way."
(Al-Fadl, August 31, 1923; by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad)
"We thank God a thousand times on the victories of Britain. This surely is a cause for our joy and happiness as our imam used to pray for her victories and advise his sect to pray for her. Also, the doors of our call towards Ahmadiyyat which where hitherto barred, have been opened. All this is because of the extension of the British empire over other countries."
(Al-Fadl, Nov. 23, 1918; by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad)
Here is a final note which sums up Mirza down to a tee.
"The Mirza is a murid (lover) of the Farangi (foreign) Lord;
Though he speaks from the heights of Bayazid.
He said: Religion's glory lies in slavery;
and life consists of lack of ego (Khudi).
He reckoned the state of others to be a blessing, danced around the church, and died."
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** ahaan! so you got the authority to send Mr Sholay to hell.... hmmm is that due to Mr Ghulam Mirza ??
again... spreading FAST does not certify the true being of a religion.. does it? Christianity is also spreading fast in India... Christianity is a winner? Agha Khanis are working similar to you... providing people with the support they are looking for in social life (most of the time its MONEY) they are converting people into Agha Khani so AGHA KHANI is a winner?
your religion is supported by anti Islamic elements like British, Germany, while in Quran Allah said that you cannot take them as friends, they are your worst enemy. and you think these countries are "friendly" and "supportive" for you, wow, they've supported you just to create another faction in Islam... DIVIDE and RULE is their motto.
if you have to talk about prophecies then why don't you respond to ALL the prophecies of Mirza Ghulam as indicated by Bro Sholay in so many threads??
again, 'RUSHING' as you describe towards Ahmediyat is not a CERTIFICATION to be TRUE. brother, this is not a race, this is religion. ALLAH will tell us all who was successful in this world.
NOTE: Answer to your ONE message:
you said :
**So Alyah did not come before Masih and Jews asked Masih about Alyah.
Note the Answer of Masih:
Masih told Jews that which Alyah was to come Has already come and he is Yohana (Hazrat Yahya), If you want then accept him as Alyah and not accept if you not want.
Note: All this story is evident from Bible. You can also personally verify it from any Jew Website. You can also verify that Jews are still waiting for Alyah who was to come from Heavens before True Masih…..
Conclusion:
After analyzing this example we can understand that in such type of predictions (i.e, where it is foretold that an old prophet shall again come on this earth), The true meaning is that another prophet shall come who shall resemble to the old one in various characteristics. And due to these similarities in characteristics, he (the new prophet) would be given the name of old prophet. **
well well well... now we are referring to JEWS and CHRISTIAN books to 'authenticate' you. please REFER ONLY TO QURAN, which is our absolute reference.
also, in your message you AGREED that ALYA was "ASCENDED" and "resent" as YOUHANA (YAHYA AS)... so why do you have problems when Muslims say that Hazrat Essa (AH) was ascended??? and will come again.
you also tend to ignore the ahadith which are against any prophet's coming, you pick stories from Bible, Torat (making them as reference) just to support your cause. can we be Muslims and REFER ONLY TO QURAN and AHADITH?
**
[/quote]
Your words:
"ahaan! so you got the authority to send Mr Sholay to hell.... hmmm is that due to Mr Ghulam Mirza ??"
**My response:
I have shown that we are Muslim according to Quran and Hadith.
You people have left Quran and Hadith and have resorted to so called "constitution".
Adopting constitution by leaving Quran and Hadith what can you expect:
Hell or Paradise????
**
Your Words:
"again... spreading FAST does not certify the true being of a religion.. does it? Christianity is also spreading fast in India... Christianity is a winner?"
**First tell me about a single example of followers of any "Lier Prophet" who spread so fast. And give me the example out of Quran.
Then I shall tell you about Quanic verses that state that Rasools and their followers are always supported by Allah and atlast become dominent.**
Your words:
"Agha Khanis are working similar to you... providing people with the support they are looking for in social life (most of the time its MONEY) they are converting people into Agha Khani so AGHA KHANI is a winner?"
**My Response:
Agha Khan do not claim to be Imam Mehdi or Promissed Masih or prophet.
Yes they are using money;
We are using ARGUMENTS.
This is the clear difference.**
Your Words:
"your religion is supported by anti Islamic elements like British, Germany, while in Quran Allah said that you cannot take them as friends, they are your worst enemy. and you think these countries are "friendly" and "supportive" for you, wow, they've supported you just to create another faction in Islam... DIVIDE and RULE is their motto."
**My Answer:
There is no reason for those countries to support us BECAUSE WE ARE THE WORST ENEMY OF THEIR RELEGION.
Our main moto is to BREAK THE CROSS. And all the countries reffered by you are of CROSS RELEGION.
It is special sign of Allah that Allah is using these countries against their own relegion.
And Mr. Changez_Like,
I do not think that these countries are dividing you BECAUSE it is actually Muslim Ummah itself which is dividing itself.
We want to make this Ummah unite. All your interenal desputes have been settelled by Hazrat Mirza sahib. But instead of accepting those settlements you have refused to accept us even Muslim.....**
Your Next Paragraph relate with Mr. Sholay.
**
Mr. Sholay is NOT GIVING ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.
I can present a LIST here of my outstanding Questions. But I am not going to do it. Mr. Sholay MUST feel SHAME by himself.
I have given all the answers of Sholays questions. Only one is outstanding about which I have asked him to put that question again as I have forgotten what was the Question.**
And your next paragraph I have answered in MY first paragraph.
Your First response to My Question.
"well well well... now we are referring to JEWS and CHRISTIAN books to 'authenticate' you. please REFER ONLY TO QURAN, which is our absolute reference."
**My Response:
I just have presented this story to make up your mind what I want to tell you.
I shall tell you what I actually want in my next post.**
Your Next Paragraph:
"also, in your message you AGREED that ALYA was "ASCENDED" and "resent" as YOUHANA (YAHYA AS)... so why do you have problems when Muslims say that Hazrat Essa (AH) was ascended??? and will come again."
**My Response:
Yes according to Bible, Allyah was taken up TOWARDS HEAVENS.
I myself have studied it in BIBLE.
but in Engeal, Hazrat Isa has clearly told that to come from Heaven does not mean exactly the same prophet shall come from Heaven BUT IT MEANS THAT ANOTHER PROPHET WITH SIMILAR CHARACTRISTICS SHALL COME.
It also shows that the meaning that some one was taken up towards Heavens does NOT MEAN THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY TAKEN UP ALIVE TOWARDS HEAVENS. BUT IT HAS SPIRITUAL MEANINGS.
BUT keep in mind that quran does not use word HEAVEN for Hazrat Isa.
And BIBLE have used word HEAVEN for Allyah.
**
Your Following Paragraph is VERY IMPORTANT.
"you also tend to ignore the ahadith which are against any prophet's coming, you pick stories from Bible, Torat (making them as reference) just to support your cause. can we be Muslims and REFER ONLY TO QURAN and AHADITH?"
**My Response:
So Mr.Changez_Like:
Just wait for my next post. I am going to give proof out of Ahadith that Masih who came in Hazrat Musa's Ummah is different person and the Masih who shall come in the Ummah of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is a different person.
But I am afraid that you people will try to ignore it as you have done with other Quranic verses.**
Mr. Changez_Like and Mr. Sholay:
You know that Hazrat Isa came in the Ummah of Hazrat Musa.
You also Know that Hazrat Isa shall again come IN THE UMMAH OF Holy Prophet(pbuh)in the period of ** Masih-ul-dajjal.**
There is difference of opinion between you and us:
You say that The same Hazrat Isa shall come in Muslim Ummah who already have come in Ummah of Hazrat Musa.
- We say that another person shall come who shall be similar to old Hazrat Isa in various charactristics so that he shall be given the name of Hazrat Isa.
To decide please carefully read the following two Ahadith of same book i.e, Sahi-Bukhari
- Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.648 Narrated by Ibn Umar
The Prophet said, "I saw Moses, Jesus and Abraham (on the night of my Ascension to the heavens). Jesus was of red complexion, curly hair and a broad chest. Moses was of brown complexion, straight hair and tall stature as if he was from the people of Az-Zutt."
- Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.649 Narrated by Abdullah
The Prophet mentioned the Massiah Ad-Dajjal in front of the people saying, -Allah is not one eyed while Messiah, Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape. While sleeping near the Ka'ba last night, I saw in my dream a man of brown color the best one can see amongst brown color and his hair was long that it fell between his shoulders. His hair was lank and water was dribbling from his head and he was placing his hands on the shoulders of two men while circumambulating the Kaba. I asked, 'Who is this?' They replied,** 'This is Jesus, son of Mary.'** Behind him I saw a man who had very curly hair and was blind in the right eye, resembling Ibn Qatan (i.e. an infidel) in appearance. He was placing his hands on the shoulders of a person while performing Tawaf around the Ka'ba. I asked, 'Who is this?' They replied, 'The Masih, Ad-Dajjal.' "
In first hadith, Holy Prophet(pbuh) has seen Hazrat Isa with Hazrat Musa. So this Hazrat Isa is the one who had already come in the Ummah of Hazrat Musa.
In second Hadith, Holy Prophet(pbuh) has seen Hazrat Isa along with Masih-al-Dajjal, so it is That Hazrat Isa who shall come in Muslim Ummah in the period of Masih-al-Dajjal.
See the difference in the appearances of BOTH Hazrat Isa's.
- Appearance of Hazrat Isa who came in the Ummah of Hazrat Musa:
"Jesus was of red complexion, curly hair and a broad chest."
- Appearance of that Hazrat Isa who shall come in Muslim Ummah:
"a man of brown color the best one can see amongst brown color and his hair was long that it fell between his shoulders. His hair was lank and water was dribbling from his head."
Now Mr. Sholay + Mr. Changez Khan,
You have seen that there is clear difference in the appearances of BOTH Hazrat Isa's.
Now you have no way but to accept that Hazrat Isa who shall come in Muslim Ummah is different from that Hazrat Isa who came in the Ummah of Hazrat Musa.
**The only way to run away from this point to reject these ahadith of Sahi-Bukhari.
And I can expect from you that you can do this.
You people can ignore Quranic verses so rejecting Ahadith would be no problem for you.
And if you shall infact ignore or reject these ahadith then it would be upto you and Allah.**
Babar & Co
As I have stated before. Yout Cult is nothing more than slaves to the British which is an Article of Faith laid down by Mirza:
"No doubt my faith and doctrine, which I stress, is that Islam is composed of two parts. One is obedience to Allah and the other is obedience to the Government which has created peace and under whose protection we are safe from oppressors - that is the British Government.
(Shahadat-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 380;
Shahadat-ul-Quran, P. 86)
I will refrain from asking or answering any more questions from you.
What I will do instead is post my opinions the way I seem fit.
The above is the beginning.
Mr. Sholay;
You are totally ignorant;
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Read the original books refered by you.
You shall come to know that Muslim Alims who were against Hazrat Mirza Sahib used to complaint before English Rullers that Miza sahib is not Loyal to English Governmint.
This clearly shows that those Muslim Alims were “Loyal” to English govt.
In these books Mirza sahib just have cleared his position and by presenting past family history that his family had never been against english Rullers. So Now he is not going to start any movement against govt."
NOTE: "Muslim Alims who were More Loyal to English govt. used to complaint before English Rullers about Hazrat Mirza sahib that he (Mirza Sahib) is preparing to start a MOVEMENT against English govt So that English govt. may arrest Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
Mr. Sholay;
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I am sorry. it is difficult for me to control my smiles.
So Mr. Sholay;
If you read these books by yourself then you shall become aware that Hazrat Mirza Sahib or His Family (although they were not against English Rule) had never taken any kind of gift from English govt.** But it was Muslim Scholars who were against Hazrat Mirza sahib were often granted “Jageers” by the English Govt.**
**
Most Muslim Alims of that period considered English Rule as blessing of Allah.
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan was also the supporter of English govt.
Muslim League when established, its main moto was to develop and promote good relations between Muslims and English Govt.
Were all of them’s FOREFATHERS were English men???
Shame on You.
To know about the exact situation of that time you should read the books written by Muslim scholars in that time. You shall come to know that all were LOYAL to English Govt.**
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Babar & Co
As I have stated before. Yout Cult is nothing more than slaves to the British which is an Article of Faith laid down by Mirza:
"No doubt my faith and doctrine, which I stress, is that Islam is composed of two parts. One is obedience to Allah and the other is obedience to the Government which has created peace and under whose protection we are safe from oppressors - that is the British Government.
(Shahadat-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 380;
Shahadat-ul-Quran, P. 86)
I will refrain from asking or answering any more questions from you.
What I will do instead is post my opinions the way I seem fit.
The above is the beginning.**
[/quote]
All your questions are only cut and paste. So it would be better if you not put any other (cut&paste) Question.
And about your answers;
I know you have no "to the point" answers.
What you have is Just "Hanky-Phanky"
Whether thay are cut and paste or my own is besides the point.
The fact remains that Mirza was a lapdog for the British, as he has quite clearly stated time and time again.
"It has been proven from my continuous seventeen year long speeches that I am faithful and sincere to the English Empire from the core of my heart and soul. I am the son of a father who was also a friend to this Government. My faith is to obey this Government and love the people; These are the conditions set for my devotees and followers who take the oath of allegiance to me. I have stressed this clause under the fourth item of my pamphlet Shuroo-al-Baiat (oath of faith) which has been distributed among my devotees and followers."
(Kitab-ul-Barriah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 13, P. 10; Kitab-ul-Barriha
But, your position now is that Muslim scholars wrote these books and NOT Mirza.
You no doubt see why I have refrained from asking further questions. The answers just get worse and worse and worse, to an extent that they just become a load of Bull!
I wonder who wrote the above quote - Christian Scholars by any chance!
Time you changed your stance and started to preach to Idol Worshippers. At least they will accept the Fairy Tale explanations.
Mirza the Greatest Liar of them all:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani conducted a Mubahala with Maulana Abdul Haq Ghaznavi (Allah's mercy on him), in Eidgah ground of Amristar on Zeeqadah 10, 1310 A.H.
(Majmuai-Ishtiharat Mirza Qadiani, Vol. 1, P. 427)
Maulana Abdul Haq Ghaznavi's 'Mubahala' was on this issue that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and all his believers were kafirs, liars, impostors and faithless.
(Majmuai-Ishtiharat Mirza Qadiani, Vol. 1, P. 425)
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani had said on Oct. 2, 1907 (7 months, 24 days before his death) that "the liar among the participants in a Mubahala dies during the lifetime of the truthful."
(Majmuai-Ishtiharat Mirza Qadiani, Vol. 9, P.440)
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani died during the lifetime of Maulana Abdul Haq Ghaznavi on May 26, 1908, whereas Maulana Abdul Haq Ghaznavi (Allah's mercy on him) expired 9 years later, on May 16, 1917.
(Rais-e-Qadian, Vol. 2, P. 192)
Just wait for the explanation on this one!