Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

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correction! not by my defination, it is by Bukhari defination. If you don't accept it then you are not sunni.

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Re: Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

as much as I trust the Hadees compiled in Bukhari, where does it say in Islam that if you dont trust the opinon of Bukhari or Hanbal, you are not muslim?

Even then, I am sure that you are quoting the definition without context as according to the definition, Abu Jehal is a sahabi. If you dont add the requirement of eeman, every munafiq, mushrik, kaafir who ever came across Prophet :saw2: is sahabi now.

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Lets just focus on the following Hadees:

Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Number 584:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Some of my companions will come to me at my Lake Fount, and after I recognize them, they will then be taken away from me, whereupon I will say, 'My companions!' Then it will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you."

Here Prophet :saw2: is clearly saying “MY COMPANIONS” Please for Allah’s sake open your eyes and accept the truth.

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Or how about this one.

Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Number 587:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "While I was sleeping, a group (of my followers were brought close to me), and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from amongst (us) me and them, he said (to them), 'Come along.' I asked, 'Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah' I asked, 'what is wrong with them' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left.' Then behold! (Another) group (of my followers) were brought close to me, and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from (me and them) he said (to them); Come along.' I asked, "Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah.' I asked, What is wrong with them?' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left. So I did not see anyone of them escaping except a few who were like camels without a shepherd."
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Large majority of Sunnis are very khush aqeeda and love the Prophet and his Ahlul Bayt. Trouble is that large number of Wahabi inspired individuals, under the disguise of Ahlay Sunna, have infiltrated them and have tried to corrupt their idealogy (they have been very successful at it too, thanks to the family of Saud and their petro dollars). Same people who kill Shias and consider them Kaafir have killed Sunnis intellects like Maulana Murtaza Malik, Dr Hakeem Saeed, and Professor Attaur Rahman.
These are the people who use the term Radi Allah for the individuals such as Yazeed and his father.

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or this one:

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 488:

Narrated Al-Musaiyab:

I met Al-Bara bin 'Azib and said (to him). "May you live prosperously! You enjoyed the company of the Prophet and gave him the Pledge of allegiance (of Al-Hudaibiya) under the Tree." On that, Al-Bara' said, "O my nephew! You do not know what we have done after him (i.e. his death)."
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Please friends !
Focus on these two questions and answer them preciesly :flower1:

All of the prominent muslim scholars expelled Ameer Muawya from the List of Rightly guided Caliphs of Islam because they knew that he was WRONGLY guided Caliph. Prove my statement wrong if you can :slight_smile:

Not at all. Cursing anyone from the past is useless practice and waste of time.

Will I or anyone curse Abu-Jahal or Abdullah bin ubey (some hypocrite) ?? Nope ! it is waste of time and none of my bussiness. It is purely useless activity whatsoever.

Do you try to follow God Almighty while cursing hypocites ???

trying to follow God almighty is very dangerous activity my friend. You are trying to place yourself next to God

see other verses of holy quran. Allah said he created earth and heaven. Would you try to create similar stuff ? Allah will question men and women during day you judgement. Are you planing similar stuff in that judgement day ???

You are Wrong my friend ! There is no such trend at all. Muslims never defend Yazid or any enemy of Islam. I have never read or heard anyone saying that prayer for Yazid except one person. (we all know who was that person) And I crticise him aswell

My statement is still firmly placed that people who curse important and noble companions of prophet (pbuh) Only follow this sick tradition of Ameer Muawiya. They perform this practice as covert activity. They need to understand this fact.

For example,If I am a teacher , and i consider Hitler a bad and brute ruler. Cant show any respect for him. but at the same time when i go to class as a teacher the kids salute me extending their arms and shout ’ Hail Code Red’

What is wrong in this ??

Go figure :chai:

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makrani what do u know about bara b azib ansari radiallahanhu ?
typical rafidha trick and slander ...
he was a very conscientious man thats why he was regretting over some things , but his merits and services to islam are great...

when its time to prove that sahaba were so bad this hadith is often quoted by rafidha .....
but they forget that bara b azib is one of the main narraters of ghadeer tradition AND the traditions about merits of hasan/hussain AND that he was one of those who were very close to ALi from the start to the end having fought in all his battles as well .....

Timepass-Jan 2013
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Re: Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

code bhai aap nay meray dil ki baat likhi hai

but problem is 2 fold

most sunni scholars worth their salt know very well about the deviations and distortions of muawoyah , cursing ALi IMHO was one of the minor offences of muawiyah compared to the other crimes
but muawiyah is technically still a sahabi and criticizing a sahabi openly opens the whole pandora box and gives licence to the anti-hadith lobby to criticize ANY sahabi and call into question the whole science of hadith collection.This caution has its roots in the earlier debates in the abbassid period between sunni and mutazilla /shia scholars.
the traditional approach towards muaiwyah is characterized by the famous quote by fudhail b ayad that "muaiwyah was a sahabi but he became involved in worldy matters "

secondly this neo-nasibism and excessive adoration of muaiwyah /marwan and even yazid is actually a reaction to extreme hostility of 12ers towards sahaba in general. Since the 12ers irrationally criticize the vast majority of sahaba [infact almost all except 3] The nawasib use this ploy to rehabilitate the image of muawiyah under the guise of "defence of sahaba" .12ers themselves are concerned little by this as this serves their purpose too and alienates their masses from the sunnis and sahaba ] even further.Esp since 12er sect is more concerned with hostility towards abu bakr /umar more than anyone else ...
12er sect has little to gain even by mentioning the "good " sahaba according to them as the sahaba by themselves are largely made irrelevent by their infallible imams.
Furthermore very few sahaba are direct sources for hadith in 12er rijal as they rely on narrations from companions of 5th imam and onward.So for 12ers criticzing sahaba does not affect their rijal but when it comes to their narraters they give them as much benefit of doubt as sunnis do.

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Allah ki lanat ho aisay "scholar" par
let me ask u why is umar b abdul aziz a pious caliph but muawiyah despite being sahabi and "katib-e-wahi" is not ?
or why are there sahih hadith in muslim in honor of uwais qurni but not a single for muaiwyah ?

Timepass-Jan 2013
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Re: Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

but may i add despite my extreme abhorence of muawiyah /marwan ...i am absolutely convinced that they are amongst the most influential men in islamic history
the basis of seperation of religion and state was made based on their example by MANY muslim rulers afterwards [both sunni and shia]

Timepass-Jan 2013
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This hadees is directly from sunni's most authentic book. It is totally irrelevant here whether this sahabi narrated ghadeer or not. However, I wonder what are the things he was regretting about?

BTW shia got their knowledge of Ghadeer directly from the Imams not from a second hand source.

This is the difference between the two, you have hadees that start like "so and so heard it from so and so.....", while shia get the hadees directly from Imams.

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Re: Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

^The typical crap people are fed by their local moulvi and yet beleive it without any search whatsoever, no wonder why muslism are thought to be the most backward people.

My Makrani, do Imams come and tell you Hadith themsleves? NO Imam has written any books. Shia Hadith also come from narrators and start from so and so heard from so and so from Imam so and so who heard from his father Imam so and so

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Re: Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

i was not present in that era so i cant take everything into account mention in any book.

all i can say is he Ameer Maviway called names to Ali RA then he is liable to ALLAH SWT and not to me…or is he? :bummer:

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Re: Challenge to Sunni and Shia folks !

and now?

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You have totally misunderstood me my friend. I said that Allah (swt) himself is cursing his enemies and the enemies of the Prophet. And everytime a reader reads a Quran, these curses get renewed so to speak. I said therefore that technically the enemies of Allah and the Prophet (and his progeny) will come under this curse until the judgement day as Quran will be present and recited.

By the way the word ‘Sahib’ in arabic has no postive or negative connotation. Sahaba could be Evil or could be good. Yousuf (as) said “Ya Sahab as Sijan"OR” oh my companions of the prision" and both were unbelievers. Quran says “Olaiqa Ashaab un Naar” OR “companions in hell” “Ashaab un Jannah” “companions in Jannah”. Therefore, literally speaking, a Sahabi can be a good sahabi or a bad sahabi.

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this is a sensible reply ramesha. problems and rifts b/w shia & sunnis will only send wahabis into ascending.....i pray for shia & sunni unity & some sort of more aware, united effort to confront wahabism which is the single biggest cause of the defemation of islam globally with its totalitarian, non teolerant and no coexistence like ideas among other dark ideas.

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True. Heres another example.

Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia (declared by previous King Fahad) Sheikh Abdul Aziz declares Imam Husain (A) commits sin by not accepting Yazid’s Shari Government:

On a LIVE TV Show on Saudi TV’s “Al Majd,” Saudi Mufti in response to a caller’s questions stated the following quote:

See above!

The problem is people like Zakir Naik (la) and the grand saudi mufti (may he burn in hell forever) above have a large number of followers and not every one of them is knowledgeable like you. So when they say something like that, their follower believe that to be true.

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There is no doubt that Muawiya in his hatred of Ali bin Abi Talib [as] instituted the Bidah of cursing/abusing Him [as] from the pulpits but why Shias curse the evil doers is because we are taught this by the very two things that are the foundation of Islam i.e. Holy Quran and Ahlulbayt [as]. Making it more simple, the act of sending curse on evil doers is mentioned in Holy Quran and has been done by Ahlulbayt [as].

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Muslims curse the Shaitan every day when they recite AUZO BIL LAAHI MIN ASH SHAYTAANIR RAJEEM.

This is the punishment of Shaitan and his likes to be cursed till the day of judgment.