Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Surah an-Najm (53), Verse 1-5
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
The believers are only those who have believed in God and His apostle, and who when they are with him on some common affair do not go away until they ask his permission.
*[24:62] *
Those who obey God and the Apostle are with the prophets and the veracious and the martyrs and the upright upon whom God has bestowed favor. Good company are these.
[4:71]
O you who have believed, obey God and His Apostle.
*[8:20] *
Whoever obeys God and His Apostle, and fears God and shows piety - these are the ones who attain felicity.
[24:51]
The Deen is incomplete without the Hadeeth.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
^ I don't think anybody is denying following the Prophet PBUH, its the ahadith collection which is under scrutiny.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
All I ask is that we not not conflate the issue of how the Quran was transmitted with how the hadith were compiled, vetted, and transmitted.
You kidding me?
There were several Wahi perservers, Muawiyah r.a. was also one of them. THrough these people the Quran was passed on and written on Leafs.
If it wasn't for these close companions of the Prophet pbuh we would have never gotten the Quran, the memorized and perserved it.
Same people, perserved his traditions, and passed them down as hadiths.
This is why we cannot REJECT hadiths because they explain and elaborate the Quran, and are from these people who also perserved the Quran.
If the Quran is trustworthy, then so are the hadiths, cuz most of them are from these people.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Okay. I just thought I'd mention it, as I read on the previous page, somebody posted that the Hadeeth is man-made & should not be taken seriously.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Yeah from 0% I reached a point where it’s 50%. Let’s see what happens next. Who says these forums are a waste of time. I am learning so many things.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Well can anyone prove me authentic evidence that Hadeeth wasnst preserved during the time of Prophet. I challenge them
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Aslam alikum warhamatullah .
All praises are for Allaah and the most truthful speech is Quran and the most noble guidence is sunnah of Prophet .
Hold the rope tight (quran and sunnah) . Those who deny Hadeeth are the followers of own desires . When we say we belive in Hadeeth means we have to obey the orders of Prophet .... its simple when the orders of Prophet dont suit our own desires and innovated ideas people shift to such tactics . Some time they would say the Hadeeth is not correct and some time they would say the way of collection is not right...you ask them have you read any book of Hadeeth ....they will remain quiet....you ask them do you know the mode and science related to collection of hadeeth ....they will look in your eyes like ignorents.
Why dont the people of own desire simply reject the truth ...is that not more honorable than to deny the facts with hypccratic approach .
Non muslims will always listen to you with concern and they will appreciate the proper ways...they will always listen to you when you give them logics and your logics if convince them they admire you...and their hearts respond in better way .
Now these people who call them self muslims and also try to emain closer to Islam ..but are true followers of own desires will come up with ideas which are confusing ...they talk without logic and without sense.
Islam is complete it requires only one thing and that is Submission....which surely is a difficult thing for those who have a desease in hearts .
It is known to every one ...all scholers of all faiths and Madhabs know that hadeeth and its preservation was done right in time of Prophet and later in time of companions and Tabbeen and taba tabeens .
The few who have own mission and innovative practices which they want to name as islamic traits are ...nothing but their own desires which surely have got nothing to do with Islam or religion .
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
from all the study done so far, I haven't read about ahadith collection during times of Prophet PBUH... can YOU prove that it was done in that day? and to same amount of ahadith? if so, where are those ahadith?
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
^There is evidence that Hadith was colected during the time of Prophet pbuh, one of the Sahabis wrote down a collection (Sahifa Sadiqa by Abdullah Bin Amr Bin alAs) and another sought permission to write Hadith and was granted.
one companion asked the Prophet whether he should write the Sunnah, and the Prophet replied by pointing to his mouth and saying: "Write, for by Allah, nothing comes out of this except the truth". This hadith is also sahih, and is narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawood and Addrami.
**
**
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Prophet of Allah (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) said to Abdullah bin Amr (radiallah tala anho): Write ahaadeeth, I swear by Him who holds my life in His hand, from this mouth nothing but the truth comes out. [Abu Dawood, volume 1, pg 158: Isnaad is Saheeh]
Abdullah bin Amr (radiallah tala anho) says: We were seated near prophet of Allah (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) and were writing, in this manner was asked: which city will be first conquered, Constantinople or Rome? He (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) said: Hercules's city will be conquered first. [Darami, pg 126: Isnaad is Saheeh]
Prophet (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) said: Write this hadeeth and give it to Abu shah (radiallah tala anho).... [Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim]
Ali (radiallah tala anho) says: We don't have anything but Kitab Allah and the scriptures in which are ahaadeeth of prophet of Allah (sallallaho alaihi wasallam). [Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim]
Abu Huraira (radiallah tala anho) says: Amongst the Sahabah (radiallah tala anhum) no one narrates ahaadeeth more than I do save Abdullah bin Amr (radiallah tala anho), because he used to write them and I didn't. [Sahih Bukhari]
Anas (radiallah tala anho) heard a hadeeth and liked it so much, he told his son to write it and he wrote it. [Sahih Muslim, Kitab ul Iman]
Anas (radiallah tala anho) says that when Abu Bakr (radiallah tala anho) sent him to Yemen as the governor, he wrote on a scroll and gave it to him whose content was: Start with Allah 's name who is Rehman and Raheem, this is the obligation of Zakat which Prophet of Allah (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) has made on the Muslimeen and this is what Allah ordered His prophet [Sahih Bukhari, Kitab ul Zakat]
The narrator Hamad bin Salma says: I got this book from Anas (radiallah tala anho) 's grandson Samama. [Nasai, kitab ul zakat]
Imam Malik says: I read Omar (radiallah tala anho)'s book … [Muwatta Malik, pg 106]
From the above few authentic narrations from many, we can conclude that ahaadeeth were being written down since the time of the prophet (sallallaho alaihi wasallam). From such scripts other famous ahaadeeth books were compiled
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
The one below is an excerpt of Ahmed Von Denfer, from Ulum Al Quran.
AHMAD VON DENFFER
The Mushaf of Ubay bin Ka'b (d. 29 H/649)
He wrote a mushaf, in which two 'additional suras and another 'additional aya' were reportedly found. Itqan, I, p. 65; Ibn Abi Dawud, masahif, pp. 18S1; also Noldeke, T. et al.: Ceschichte des Qorans, Leipzig, 1909-38 (abbr. as GdQ), 11, pp. 33-8. The first so called sura entitled al-khal' (separation), translates as follows: 'O Allah, we seek your help and ask your forgiveness, and we praise you and we do not disbelieve in you.
We separate from and leave who sins against you.' The second so-called sura, entitled al-hafd (haste) translates as follows: 'O Allah, we worship You and to You we pray and prostrate and to You we run and hasten to serve You. We hope for Your mercy and we fear Your punishment. Your punishment will certainly reach the disbelievers.' Obviously these two pieces constitute so-called 'qunut', i.e. supplications which the Prophet sometimes said in the morning prayer or witr prayer after recitation of suras from the Qur'an. They are in fact identical to some parts of qunut reported in the collections of hadith. See: Nawawi, al-adhkar, Cairo, 1955, pp. 57-8.
As to the single additional so-called aya, its translation is as follows: 'If the son of Adam was given a valley full of riches, he would wish a second one, and if he was given two valleys full of riches, he would surely ask for a third one. Nothing will fill the belly of the son of Adam except dust, and Allah is forgiving to him who is repentant.
Again this text is known to be a hadith from the Prophet. See Bukhari, VIII, No. 444-47. According to Ibn 'Abbas (No. 445) and 'Ubay (No. 446) this text was at times thought to be part of the Qur'an. However Ubay himself clarifies that after sura 102: I had been revealed, they (i.e. the sahaba) did not consider the above to be part of the Qur'an. See Bukhari, VIII, No. 446. This explanation of Ubay also makes it very clear that the Companions did not differ at all about what was part of the Qur'an and what was not part of the Qur'an. when the revelation had ceased. and *if e.g. this hadith occurred in the mushaf of Ubay, it was a mushaf for his own personal use, in other words, his private notebook, where he did not always distinguish between Qur'anic material and hadith, since it was not meant for general use and he himself knew well what to make of his own notes. *
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Excellent...show me how a person can follow the prophet SAW ?
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
And please do not lump me with the people who reject hadith.
ok...got it..
but concocted has a negative connotation. The better words could be compiled.
Wallahu Alam.
And one more for the hadeeth rejectors (not you)::::::
:::::: The verified authentic hadeeth are the words of Allah as the Quran testifies many places :::::
..Wama Yantiqu anilhawa - in huwa illa wah yun yuha ---
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
::::::::::::::CHALLENGE NO 2::::::::::::
Since the rejectors have terribly failed in the first challenge here is another try:
Till now none of the hadeeth rejectors were able to tell us how the quran tells them where and when it was revealed and also how they know that the current shape of the quran is real?
so the next one for them:
Explain these only from Quran and do it one at a time:
The Holy Quran says : Atiyul Laha wa Atiyu-rasul...
on countless occasions ---please explain how you can follow the Rasul (SAW) from Quran only.
Please explain the following about the verse below from only the Quran : ::::you cannot consult or quote Tafseer as Tafseer relies on Hadeeth heavily:::::
Surah Abasa :
First few verses:
Abasa Watawalla - An ja hul aa-ma -
Who is the surah talking about? Who is the blind man? Who turned away..?
Please only the Quran is your reference.....
Jazak Allahu Khairain!!
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
I guess you haven't studied really anything then...
There are tonnes of them from the period of Prophet SAW ...
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Excuse me. Please do not mix exact science (logic) with religion.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
Very well put.
You can be perfectly sunni and scrutinize the Hadith collections - no contradiction there. You're just trying to be a better muslim who is not misguided by falsities.
armughal - there are other circumstances in which he was criticized by Aisha (R), and they've come in various discussions. But that's just one example.
By the way, the "science of the hadith" that so many people defend relies on a rigid criterion of not accepting any hadith that has been presented by someone who has knowingly lied or given forth inaccurate information about the prophet.
There is one hadith/hadith collecting story in which it is described that the hadith collectors walked a highly long distance (well travelled on their camels) to seek out a claim for a hadith that was made. When they got to this claimer's home, they observed that the claimer was playing friendly tricks with the camels (i.e. showing them food and acting as if to give it to them, and then taking it away to see the camel's reaction). The collectors walked away with the reasoning that if this man can deceive a camel, why wouldn't he deceive them? They did not even bother to listen to the hadith. A man travelling with them (maybe an apprentice or something) was shocked and narrarated this incident down in history. We shared this story at a Islamic meeting we had at our university some years ago, and I still remember it.
Now, why wasn't this strict rigidity followed in other instances?
I always find it interesting that the misogynst hadith have been narrarated by Abu Huraira. Unfailingly.
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
^I don't think us normal people should be ruling which one is right and which one is wrong, okay just tell me this, by us picking and choosing, what if God forbid we reject a true hadith, that is the point I'm making, I think people of knowledge such as actual scholars should be making these decisions and not us, don't you agree, unless of course you don't believe the Hadith which then wouldn't really affect you (not meant to be offensive or trying to accuse).
Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors
one companion asked the Prophet whether he should write the Sunnah, and the Prophet replied by pointing to his mouth and saying: "Write, for by Allah, nothing comes out of this except the truth". This hadith is also sahih, and is narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawood and Addrami.
Are such ahadith which were collected during Prophet PBUH's time separately available from those collected afterwards?