Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

After the recent failed ploy of the thread called “Hadeeth of Ayesha RA” and other such attempts, I have a challenge for the hadeeth rejectors.


1. Where and how was the quran compiled and brought to you today?
2. Where and how was it revealed?
3. Show me just from Quran how it the quran was captured in its written form?

I guarantee you won’t be able to tell me unless you consult the authentic hadeeth of Rasul Allah SAW.

The above questions are just the start, there are tons of others that you cannot answer unless you consult hadeeth.

Come on now…
real evidence not a bunch of rejection rhetoric please!

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

Sorry brother just thought will add a couple of points more
1) The way to perform Salah
2) To perform Hajj.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

Hadeeth rejectors are disbelievers. Period.

There is no middle-ground.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

How can you even compare the hadith to the Quran? The Quran was revealed by an angel and delivered to the Prophet and you have to trust that its true, because the Quran says that its true. That's your logical starting point, and that's what hadith-collectors used as well as a starting point. You assume that whatever the Quran says = truth.

Then whatever you see - hadith or something some maulvi says or whatever - that contradicts the Quran = false.

If something is not directly contradictory to the Quran, because it wasn't mentioned in the Quran, then you apply Quranic principles to it. If principles aren't violated, then you proceed with common sense on that issue and hope you're not making an error.

The hadith were compiled by men, and they were written and recorded by men, and they were GENERATED by men as well, and delivered by men.

The Quran is not as such. The Quran was GENERATED by God, and delivered by an Angel. The time of compilation is important, because it was done soon after the Prophet's death - enough time that if any tampering was done, people would know, because there were people around that knew the Prophet and had memorized the Quran directly from him.

The written compilation of the hadith occurred some centuries later. That would give enough time for tampering to take place, and tampering DID take place, otherwise we wouldn't have Al-bukhari and Al-muslim and other compilers. What do you think the "science of the hadith" is? It was used to weed out inaccurate falsified "hadith" that were floating around. Basically people were attributing sayings to the Prophet (SAW), that he never uttered.

In the process of compiling, its possible things were left out, or hadith narrarations had some bias in them, and the tone of the sayings were changed.

Furthermore, the Quran doesn't guarantee the truth in written HADITH. It does ask you to follow the Prophet, but if you can't see that there is a difference between what the Prophet said and what was attributed to have come out of his mouth, then I don't know what to tell you.

Case in point - look on the internet. You'll find so many bogus, falsified, tampered with hadith that are put on there by either people who want to mislead you or who are misled themselves.

But they're out there, and in writing, and someone apparently said that these are true sayings of the Prophet. So how do you diffrentiate between those sayings and the ones in Al-bukhari?

Furthermore, you need to read up on the political history going on at the time when these compilations were occurring.

Some investigation might be worthwhile if done on Abu Huraira in particular. He narrarated more hadith than anyone else, I believe, and yet, he had very little contact with the Prophet. And there are other hadith that actually describe how on numerous occasions Aisha (R) had to scold Abu Huraira for narrarating inaccurate information that he "thought" was commanded by the Prophet.

There was one hadith our imam was narrating the other day - how Aisha (R) had to correct people from following Abu Huraira's advice on ghusl and fasting after sex during Ramadan. I don't know about you, but if Aisha (R) is recorded as saying that Abu Huraira is inaccurate, and yet the majority of hadith come from this guy...what conclusion can a logical person make from this?

So, hadith collections are full of contradictions. Despite that its a worthwhile literature to read through. Its quite educational and enlightening in many aspects.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

Syedana Abu Huraira :razi:

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

I am not a hadith rejector, far from it and I do agree with you that hadith are a very important part of our faith … but I do seriously have doubt about the intentions of many hadith narraters …we cannot accept all hadith as authentic obviously …but which ones to discard ? that is the question…as far as I am concerned

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

lol at some responses. This is what you have one you apply a subjective approach to it.

People have long forgotten how to be objective.

and when they get a bit of knowlegde, they think they know everything. Grow up.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

Quran = word of God. Gauranteed to be true.
Hadeeth = word of men. Always a chance of being incorrect.

You take a pick which should be followed.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors


who told you that Quran is word of God??? same man, whose words are being degraded by Munkireen-e-Hadeeth?

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

lol Quran= word of god? What proof do u have ?

lemme quote PCG.

[QUOTE]
The Quran was revealed by an angel and delivered to the Prophet *and you have to trust that its true, *

[/QUOTE]

on what basis? You can't just trust something wihtout knowing if its right or not.

And what makes it right or not? Hadiths!!!

The Seerah of the PRophet pbuh tells us that Quran is the true word of God. Thats why we believe it.

Thats like saying you believe in the Sun, but not its rays.

You can't have RAYS WITHOUT THE SUN, my fellow guppies. Its impossible to believe in one and not the other.

Impossible.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

And another thing, just because a hadith tells you something thats against your wordly desire, doesn't make it fabricated.

More knowledgeable people have used objective evidence to prove them, and our subjectiveness is not enough to claim them as "false" or "man made".

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

ab teri kher naheeN… dukhti rug cheR dee bhai aap naY :flower1:

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

This actually is a very good question.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

So, you're using the Hadith as a support for the Quran. In other words, if a hadith says the Quran is true, then its true.

Oddly enough, better scholars than you who have accumulated the hadith have thought the opposite, and based the concept of truth to equalling the Quran, and letting everything in the oral "hadith" literature of their time compare to the Quran.

You can't base the existance of something more true on something less true. Illogical. No wonder you folks think the way you do.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

AQ I am not a religious person but this much I know it is written in Quran itself that the God will save it from corruption (please correct me if I am wrong), but no such claim for hadeeth.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

I'm not even speaking of worldly desire, so kindly stop assuming things and focus on what was said. You have inherent contradictions within the literature of the hadith. That means there may be some valid hadith in the literature, mixed with some invalid hadith. Now which ones are valid and which are not is hard to tell. You take your pick. Abu Huraira. Or Aisha (R). Given that Aisha (R) spent so much time with the Prophet (SAW), I'd pick her testimonies and narrarations. She certainly never transmitted a misogynst hadith, but Abu Huraira was known to have a bias ag/females.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

^

PCG your not a scholar in Hadith, but there are basics, you can start with those.

There are something called Isnads, Chains, of narrations, the Same Khateeb-ul wahis, that preserved the Quran have chains of perservers of hadiths.

There are millions of ahdiths rejected for false claims, and many that are weak.

but based on **objective **evidence there are many that are correct and in line with the Quran.

I didn't state Hadiths prove Quran, what I meant to say was hadiths are beacons for us to understand the true nature of the Quran.

Thus the Sun and it's rays example.

And yes, it has alot to do with worldly desires (moderation, integration etc.)

And no before you start thinking up of some other futile reply, i'm not a scholar in hadith, but one that atleast thinks logically when it comes to objective evidence being presented baout something.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

We don't have the option to reject certain hadiths due to our personal preference, what if those are right, there may be some that are made up, I won't deny it, but who are we to decide which are true and which are not, unless of course they go against what the Quran says. PCG, you either believe all hadiths or don't, you can't pick certain ones that suit your life/preference.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

PGC, before you can make the decision on what hadith to 'pick and mix' and take what is true and what is not please go and find out about the history of Mustalah al-Hadith.

As cresent said We have to look at the 'isnad'

We have to look at whether the chain of reporters is interrupted or uninterrupted, e.g. musnad (supported), muttasil (continuous), munqati' (broken), mu'allaq (hanging), mu'dal (perplexing) and mursal (hurried).

The history of the chain of transmission is extremely important regarding each hadith and that is what is defined as 'sahih' or 'daeef'.

We as the less knowledgable cannot always do this, so there are scholars that do it for us. So according to the reliability of the transmission a Hadith is given a title, such as mentioned above, sahih, daeef, or maudu depending on the nature of the reporters.

It is so ironic. We are educated, we are doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers yet we are illiterate when it comes to the deen. That is why we need to read, learn and understand then explain, rather than thinking we are educated enough to make logical judgments on the deen based on our 'worldly intelligence and logics'.

Understanding deen takes passion, love for Allah and a yearn for knowledge about what is actually is. When we come to love ALLAH and the Beloved and Holy Rasul SAW, and recite the Quran and understand it. We will never open our hearts if we look at the whole process like we are reading a book, we have to involve ourselves in it and then also realize that as mere Slaves of Allah we are limited with our thinking when it comes to our Creator. We have to have some blind belief in the al-ghaib and certain things may seem so odd to us and incomprehendable but we put our trust in Him and believe him as Allah ho aalim.

Sometimes we have to stop trying to argue and give justifications about things and just believe and trust in Him.

Re: Challenge for Hadeeth Rejectors

PCG, can you please tell who was our source for both Quran and Hadith. The one who started this thread is focussing on this pivotal point. Do not try to deviate the topic.* I agree with you any hadith matching with the Quran is right(I will go stop here at this point, let us go talk about this later).* Dont even need of giving such a big lecture if its inherent in you I am sorry. I am just requesting.

2 simple questions
1) How to pray
2) How to perform hajj. Forget about Hajj for now, please explain how to pray.