It is so ironic. We are educated, we are doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers yet we are illiterate when it comes to the deen. That is why we need to read, learn and understand then explain, rather than thinking we are educated enough to make logical judgments on the deen based on our 'worldly intelligence and logics'.
Understanding deen takes passion, love for Allah and a yearn for knowledge about what is actually is. When we come to love ALLAH and the Beloved and Holy Rasul SAW, and recite the Quran and understand it. We will never open our hearts if we look at the whole process like we are reading a book, we have to involve ourselves in it and then also realize that as mere Slaves of Allah we are limited with our thinking when it comes to our Creator. We have to have some blind belief in the al-ghaib and certain things may seem so odd to us and incomprehendable but we put our trust in Him and believe him as Allah ho aalim.
Sometimes we have to stop trying to argue and give justifications about things and just believe and trust in Him.
Sometimes we have to stop trying to argue and give justifications about things and just believe and trust in Him.
I completely agree with you let me quote the first 3 verses of Surah Al Baqara, with some explanation on my own complementing your quote
1: Alif Lam Mim
2: This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
3: Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
Now let me explain from verse one, its states clearly by the consensus of the scholar and from the Ahadeeth no one knows the Meaning of Alif Lam Mim except Allaah the incomparably great.** The one who is reading the Quran is surely in a state of doubt, reading the second chapter and verse of the Noble Quran.**
Now the second verse, clearly asserts This is no doubt a book of Guidance from Allaah. For this you have got to have Iman and Faith in Allaah, otherwise the difference between lip and slip is huge. Well those verses mentioned requires Iman.
Alhamdolillah this exposed the hadeeth rejector PCG for everyone to see.
And lol at you that you cannot see the basic question even…
Give me 1 evidence from the quran on how it was collected and compiled and in “in your face” today so easy… go now give the evidence from quran alone on its compilation…
if you can’t then - admit that you cannot and stop this mumbo jumbo rhetoric of yours…
and as far as Light Bearer… who says to you that the Quran is the WORD of GOD…did GOD come to you and give you the Quran…
no – you found it in a bookstore or in a mosque…
so how did they publish it in the way it is ..?
Since you have admitted to GOD so now admit that given due verifcation of authenticity you have to rely on the saying of Prophet Muhammad SAW to accept the QURAN to be true…
otherwise its people like PCG and their words against you the other “logical reformist” - who wins - no one - to prove Quran is true in its current shape today, you need the authentic hadeeth of prophet SAW…
go PCG go get the evidence from Quran regarding when and where it was revealed to Prophet SAW…and how it was compiled in its current shape - but get it from Quran alone…
I know you can’t…because it is not in the Quran…
Just like a person asking for direction from Detroit to Chicago but then when given a map for it, just saying they only need to be pointed to the road not the map!!..
Personally, I discard ahadith which praise a particular person or group, for example a hadith narrating that Jannat is waiting for so and so, or he will go to Heaven or he was such great person or he/she will get that title in heaven..... all such ahadith should not form basis of our belief, who gets what in Heaven is all upto Allah swt and is between Him and the believer, we should focus on how WE can earn Allah swt's love, blessing and how WE can please him etc.
Both the Quran and hadith were communicated to mankind through a human i.e. Prophet Muhammad SAW. Don't get me wrong in what I am saying, what I mean is that the interface to humans for both Quran and Hadith was a human.
The difference to me lies in this:
Quran = Words of God unchanged
Hadith = Word of God conveyed or demonstrated through words of a human
Hadith are also what Allah SWT has convyed in a sense that they are demonstrating what is in the Quran but the fact that their medium for presentation is human concocted language is what makes them liable to discrepancies whereas Quran is Allah SWT speech presented in human language.
Please correct your selection of words. Many of the people who narrated the hadeeth shivered with the thought of changing even a vowel in what they were transmitting. So don't say they "concocted" the words. In the science of hadeeth those who actually "concocted" are referred to specifically as "liars" are if their names are present in any chain of narration then that hadeeth is rejected on that specific grounds. Don't disgrace them by saying they concocted words. Please.
Question for you: Who has told you that your Quran today in its current shape is the one revealed to Prophet SAW?
It was not revealed in the form of a written text? It was transmitted in the highest form of knowledge transmission and that is called "divine revealation" or "wahee"
So who wrote it down? and how do you believe that those the ones mentioned wrote it down in reality. This is all through authenticated/ verified Hadeeths / narrations of the Prophet SAW.
All of the confused people who don't know what to do and which hadeeth to take , need to take a course on Hadeeth Sciences. It will tell you what happened and how it happened as regards to compilation of hadeeth and Quran revealation.
Please correct your selection of words. Many of the people who narrated the hadeeth shivered with the thought of changing even a vowel in what they were transmitting. So don't say they "concocted" the words. In the science of hadeeth those who actually "concocted" are referred to specifically as "liars" are if their names are present in any chain of narration then that hadeeth is rejected on that specific grounds. Don't disgrace them by saying they concocted words. Please.
I am perfectly aware of that however next time please try to understand the language in the tone it is being used. We are not discussing the science of hadith just a general discussion. That is why I precautioned not to get me wrong. There is no better word in English that could have expressed what I meant to say. I do not mean any disrespect as I am an ardent hadith follower.
All of the confused people who don't know what to do and which hadeeth to take , need to take a course on Hadeeth Sciences. It will tell you what happened and how it happened as regards to compilation of hadeeth and Quran revealation.
Jazak Allah Khair!
Let me explain again, the words used to convey the divine revelation in arabic language were not chosen by Prophet Muhammad SAW in the case of the Quran regardless of who wrote it down whereas in hadith the words chosen to express in the arabic language were not chosen by Allah SWT. I think you still did not catch my point though.
And please do not lump me with the people who reject hadith.
Anyone here who thinks that the Quran and Hadith are equal in how they were transmitted, or to the degree in which care was taken with each is out to lunch.
The Quran, as well as the way we pray, etc. are very much learned by tradition. That is to say, they were passed down at a popular level, and DID NOT rely on scholarship for their transmission. It is the will of Allah allmighty that the Quran be transmitted in such a way, and is protected by Him. Such is not true of the Hadith.
The Hadith, on the other hand, were usually the domain of scholars and sophists of old. Muslims of old concerned themselves with the details of Hadith as much as we modern Muslims concern ourselves with statues and regulations on the law books.
One cannot understand the Quran without the help of Hadeez (period)
In other words in order to understand Allah and follow his path We need Muhammad e Mustafa (sww) door without prophet it is not easy to follow the religion.
Without the clarification and explanation it is not easy to understand the Quran because it is Allah’s words (who is most knowledgeable) and we are human (illiterate) every single verse of Quran contains dozens of meaning in it. In this worldly life of few days how many times hard topic of our curriculums gone like wind from our heads we look towards professor, tutor to help. Leave everything about Quran for a second let takes totally different scenario: an ordinary person of 21st century it is not easy for him/her explain even one sentence (Shair) of Allama Iqbal rather to explain Surrah e Hammad. Zamana e Jhalat kay arab were total gone cases thay bhai they knew one thing that is 'Fight or Lahoo Lahab'
In order to understand the Tawheed of Allah (not just tawheed but every single chapter/Rukon of Islam) we need Prophet Muhammad help/guidance
Here is beautiful hadeez from Sahi Bukhari & Sahi Muslim God is bountiful and feels unhappy if He has to refuse to grant a wish. **
**He feels embarrassed when a man holds out both his hands before Him, and He has disappoint him by turning him away empty-handed.
Please correct your selection of words. Many of the people who narrated the hadeeth shivered with the thought of changing even a vowel in what they were transmitting. So don't say they "concocted" the words. In the science of hadeeth those who actually "concocted" are referred to specifically as "liars" are if their names are present in any chain of narration then that hadeeth is rejected on that specific grounds. Don't disgrace them by saying they concocted words. Please.
that is not true, if you go through how ahadith were collected and what happened during those times you will be astonished.
PCG, aisha (ra) is reported to scold abu huraira (ra) in just one hadith....
do u dump the thousands of ahadith by abu huraira (ra) to keep one by aisha (ra) or otherwise????
take this scenario....
a person, like many on this board, who finds ahadith coming in the way of his worldly pleasures, wants to induce doubt in the minds of the ppl so they start rejecting ahadith...
so the best way wud be to denounce the chief narrator of the ahadith i.e. abu huraira (ra)....
but to denounce him, he needs someone more important, so he thinks of aisha (ra), so he makes up a controversial hadith about huraira (ra) through aisha (ra)....
and many fools take his word and call abu huraira (ra) a liar....
why do u think the sahaba did not take any action against abu huraira (ra) if he (as u think ) was spreading lies and fabricated ahadith....
those ppl were very strict on these matters....
(whether u believe it or not) when the sahaba used to tell a hadith, they used to start sweating and shivering because of the fear of reporting something in words that the Prophet (saw) did not use (i.e. use similar meaning words) and hence face the punishment of fabricating the words of the Prophet (saw), which he warned against and told of severe punishment for anyone who does this....
hence u will find many ahadith saying the Prophet (saw) said something which meant like this, or saying "maybe he used this word or maybe this"....
they did not want to report anything even slightly wrong....
and u think that one of them was busy telling false ahadith....
or that they'd let one among them attribute false to the prophet (saw) and not take any action to stop such a thing....
do u really not even think of what u r talking about????
and just follow the foolish hadith rejectors without using ur own brain....
1. Where and how was the quran compiled and brought to you today? 2. Where and how was it revealed? 3. Show me just from Quran how it the quran was captured in its written form?
what a thread cum challange ?? brilliant !! it’s gonna shut few mouths :bash:
Allhumdullilah i never contradict whatever is in Quran & majority of Ahadeeth, but that doesn’t mean i blindly believe in all molvi hazraat , imam sahibaan & fatwa experts at present .
Since you seem to have knowledge about the science of hadith let me ask you a question:
The ahadeeth discarded by hadith scholars was because of there inaccuracy or shadiness in the chain of narration (sanad) or text of the hadith (matan)?
have admitted to GOD so now admit that given due verifcation of authenticity you have to rely on the saying of Prophet Muhammad SAW to accept the QURAN to be true…
what a thread cum challange ?? brilliant !! it’s gonna shut few mouths :bash: