TLK.. I dun see a logic here.. that was plain silly!
exactly my point. Its all silliness dude :p
Oooooooo, Mama just cricket playa to schoooool! :xmas1:
You go on with your bad self, Mamaof3!
Merry Christmas All!
you didn't get my point,
Islam is a way of life which provides an answer to everything. Islam says to avoid sin just avoid the root of it all. I am not saying not to celebrate christmas just because it celebrates a prophet's birthday, you have to look at the overall picture. sure you might say, i am celebrating christmas without all the kufr stuff, but are you not indirectly supporting the kufr holiday? dunno if u understand what i am saying still. sorry for the confusion.
Cricketplaya,
Mamaof3 has a point-and that is it UNIslamic to cast aspersions and insults on any religion, which includes Christianity and Judaism. As all religion does incorporate pagan or local customs (do you think Islam hasnt?), it's a moot point to start whining about presents. Christians themselves discuss every December the most meaningful ways to express the principles of this time, and it isnt about presents, "alcohol, or fornication". Shame on you.
Secondly, I agree with Mama's point about our being graceful and tolerant about the holidays of all faiths. Mamaof3, your point on Christians in Pakistan was an excellent one.
Re: celebrating christmas
heck, why not even celebrate dilwali, hakunna and all the other religious festivals from other religions
shame on you
Re: celebrating christmas
whats hakunna?
Cricketplaya,
Mamaof3 has a point-and that is it UNIslamic to cast aspersions and insults on any religion, which includes Christianity and Judaism. As all religion does incorporate pagan or local customs (do you think Islam hasnt?), it's a moot point to start whining about presents. Christians themselves discuss every December the most meaningful ways to express the principles of this time, and it isnt about presents, "alcohol, or fornication". Shame on you.
Secondly, I agree with Mama's point about our being graceful and tolerant about the holidays of all faiths. Mamaof3, your point on Christians in Pakistan was an excellent one.
No she did not take me to school :D
Sorry Mamaof3 didn't read your edited post.. just did now. No matter how much you deny it, Christianity has been corrupted. If it hadn't, Allah would not need to send Islam. kwim?
and here from the all knowing wikipedia that you quoted, from the "Christmas" page itself:
The nativity of Jesus, which is the basis for the anno Domini system of dating, is thought to have occurred between 7 and 2 BC.[6] December 25 is not thought to be Jesus' actual date of birth, and the date may have been chosen to correspond with either a Roman festival,[7] or with the winter solstice.[8]
Modern customs of the holiday include gift-giving, church celebrations, and the display of various decorations—including the Christmas tree, lights, mistletoe, nativity scenes and holly. Santa Claus (also referred to as Father Christmas, although the two figures have different origins) is a popular mythological figure often associated with bringing gifts at Christmas. Santa is generally believed to be the result of a synchronization between Saint Nicholas and elements from pagan Nordic and Christian mythology, and his modern appearance is believed to have originated in 19th century media.
many more examples of paganism in Christianity exist.
Look I don't want to argue on this petty issue,, I had my view which I wanted to present, that's all. Allah knows best.
whats hakunna?
its a word from some african lingo, remember lion king?
Hukunna Matata means no worries:music:
"
[quote="cricketplaya"]
No she did not take me to school :D
Sorry Mamaof3 didn't read your edited post.. just did now. No matter how much you deny it, Christianity has been corrupted. If it hadn't, Allah would not need to send Islam. kwim? etc...."
Cricketplaya, you were certainly taken to school, because for all the supposed "Islamicity" of your claims, you must the main points, which is that all religions, including Islam, are highly mediated, syncretic, systems that are shaped by the local contexts. There is no "pure" Islam, there is only interpretation. Goddess knows that we as Muslims have forgotten many worthwhile principles practiced by the first Muslim family, esp. the most "pious" among us.
Finally, I don't understand this ajeeb practice among some "pious" Muslims in which they think they have permission to insult other faith systems. This is ignorant behavior. Every faith system has positive and meaningful concepts and practices to offer, and playing this game of trying to devalue them is imho offensive and the sign of stupid, insecure people.
heck, why not even celebrate dilwali, hakunna and all the other religious festivals from other religions
shame on you
Brother Quraysh- I will. Shame on you for being too intolerant to understand what that means.
Re: celebrating christmas
well i have lived in the west all my life n my family does not celebrate it
we dont put up a tree or lights but yeh we take full advantage of the vacation n go sumwhere usually
other than that i have gone to xmas parties for my work
and i give gifts to...
but i would rather make a big deal about islamic holidays n wen non muslims ask me if i want to celebrate xmas i just say that i have my own holidays....
like on eid .. my family makes sure to celebrate just like non muslims do for xmas....
whats hakunna?
i think he meant hanukkah. it is a jewish holiday aka festival of lights. usually runs from late november to late december
"
[quote="cricketplaya"]
No she did not take me to school :D
Sorry Mamaof3 didn't read your edited post.. just did now. No matter how much you deny it, Christianity has been corrupted. If it hadn't, Allah would not need to send Islam. kwim? etc...."
Cricketplaya, you were certainly taken to school, because for all the supposed "Islamicity" of your claims, you must the main points, which is that all religions, including Islam, are highly mediated, syncretic, systems that are shaped by the local contexts. There is no "pure" Islam, there is only interpretation. Goddess knows that we as Muslims have forgotten many worthwhile principles practiced by the first Muslim family, esp. the most "pious" among us.
Finally, I don't understand this ajeeb practice among some "pious" Muslims in which they think they have permission to insult other faith systems. This is ignorant behavior. Every faith system has positive and meaningful concepts and practices to offer, and playing this game of trying to devalue them is imho offensive and the sign of stupid, insecure people.
i agree. espeically with saap's last paragraph.
Re: celebrating christmas
saap, i don't see anyone on this forum insulting other faiths.. I have no idea where you gather this from.
Brother Quraysh- I will. Shame on you for being too intolerant to understand what that means.
see, this is where you fail to understand the meaning of "intolerant"
tolerance does not mean that i, as a muslim, have to take part in christmas. Tolerance is letting the christians celebrate their religious festival
Re: celebrating christmas
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 9.422; Narrated by Abu Said Al Khudri
The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure, you would follow them." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?"
Surah Al-Kafirun (Yusuf Ali Quran Translation)
Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way and to me mine.
I know what hannukah is. i was wondering if Brother Q knew what he meant. to say :D
i think he meant hanukkah. it is a jewish holiday aka festival of lights. usually runs from late november to late december
[quote="saap, post:13, topic:190882"]
" i agree. espeically with saap's last paragraph.
see, this is where you fail to understand the meaning of "intolerant"
tolerance does not mean that i, as a muslim, have to take part in christmas. Tolerance is letting the christians celebrate their religious festival
Brother Quraysh, you are speaking from a perspective in which your school, denomination and interpretation of Islam is the dominant one. One thing Pak Americans can learn from being a minority that is discriminated against is empathy for the minorities of Pakistan. We are better "tolerated" than Christians or Ahmedis in Pakistan....I can't speak for Hindus.
Also, if I'm such a closed minded, insecure person, then I will make sure that I don't participate to comfortable degrees with the spirit of another faith system's holiday...I will draw distinctions, I will find difference,
Re: celebrating christmas
^ Brother Quraysh isn't saying don't tolerate Christmas or other faiths. I thought it could not have been more clear!
He's saying that it isn't part of Islam and people who follow Islam are forbidden to celebrate any festivities that are not part of Islam. If you're going to argue my previous sentence then we are getting on a whole different debate - which frankly, does not belong in this thread nor this forum.