Re: celebrating christmas
We're not white but we celebrate Christmas. I love Christmas! We put up decorations and a tree, the whole sheebang!
Re: celebrating christmas
i just dont like this time of year b/c of the lousy weather, the huge crwods, and that i always have finals that end the day before xmas 
*rotfl!!
Cricket man! I'm surprised at you! First, kafir is not a nice word and surely there are kafirs in the west but I've not met many in my lifetime.
Christmas, aside from the religious aspect (which we as a family do not celebrate), the Christmas holiday is a time of giving, sharing good friends and family...
no one I've ever met in my entire lifetime in the west used the holiday for fornication, drugs alcohol or money. lol!! Where HAVE you been hanging out man!!
Kafir not a nice word? It's real, it's there to use, why not use it? a kafir is a kafir no matter how you want to be politically correct.. it's not a bad word. and you've never met non-muslims in your life? surprising...... :D
hey i didn't say don't enjoy the free time you have with family and friends, why not, Islam teaches us to give gifts..etc
BUT the BIG issue is, associating this particular time with the pagan holiday which is christmas. All I am saying is the more we associate our time to enjoy with "christmas", the more we as a Muslim community are drifting away from Islam.. examples are there for you to see in front of you..
you've never met anyone who hasn't used this holiday for what I listed? are you serious? which part of west are you living :D I want to move there. no seriously, look back at work, uni, non-muslim friends, im sure you can point it out. It's better to accept the reality then to outright deny it... it's called the ostrich syndrome which the Indians today are known for :D
Re: celebrating christmas
ok lets take a deep breath here, cricket…kafir IS indeed a real word and yeah, its there to use…but to use it to describe the entirety of western society is…well irresponsible, inaccurate and immature. To call all those who celebrate christmas “kafir” is wrong, plain and simple.
Christmas is a Christian holiday, not a pagan one. And if you live in the west, its something that you need to actively try to avoid if you choose not to accept its existence. If you DO join in, that in no way affects when and how you celebrate your Islaamic holidays, it merely adds to the cultural diversity of your household.
For your educational progression, here is a bit from the definition of “pagan” from wiki…
The term has been defined broadly, to encompass all of the religions outside the Abrahamic monotheistic group of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.[2]](Paganism - Wikipedia) The group so defined includes most of the Eastern religions, Native American religions and mythologies, as well as non-Abrahamic ethnic religions in general. More narrow definitions will not include any of the world religions and restrict the term to local or rural currents not organized as civil religions. Characteristic of pagan traditions is the absence of proselytism and the presence of a living mythology which explains religious practice.[3]](Paganism - Wikipedia)
So a pagan holiday would be one from, say ancient greece where they celebrated things like Bachuus, the “God of Wine” by doing the kind of things you mentioned - fornicating and drinking till they puke. But never in the west have I seen or heard of a Bachuus holiday.
And yes, when I think it over carefully, I can think of one or two instances over the past 3 decades or more when I’ve seen someone over-imbibe on alcohol or spend too much money on xmas. Not quite as many of this type of thing tho, as I’ve seen at desi parties in pak where the men have their separate scotch parties where they all drink till they puke.
Christmas is in no way a drinking, puking, all-out frat-boy type of holiday. Its family, friends the spirit of giving and joy of the season.
If THAT makes me an ostrich then - flapflap, cluckcluck…I am happy to be one of these 
Re: celebrating christmas
Oh, christmas is a pagan holiday, poor chrisitians just adapted to whatever they liked, us Muslims shouldn't be like that. We can have a long discussion with facts about the pagan holiday if you want :) but I don't want to bore your nor do I want to waste my time..
alright so let's not use kafir. but the person committing kufr (ie beliving Isa alaysalam was born in this day, son of god, etc) is a kafir. so if we take part in their acts of kufr, are we not indirectly accepting them? our beloved Prophet (pbuh) forbid us this very thing. not to adapt to the kufar's ways, especially the ways that go against Islam.
you can happily celebrate this time of year without accepting christmas and going about things with a christmas label. you can receive and give gifts to non-muslims without the intention of christmas. :)
Re: celebrating christmas
ok, so you cannot celebrate the birth of an Islaamic prophet tomorrow....
so celebrate the birth of a regular man, a politician - Jinnah...be merry and enjoy the holiday!
ps SHEESH man...do the christian minority over in Pak complain, beech and moan this much at Eid time?
Re: celebrating christmas
No Mama, there is no discrimination of eid and Xmas here.All major political parties invited christians leaders and personalities and cut cakes with them. Yesterday PML(N) ruling party in Punjab invited Bishop Lahore Alexander Malik and other noteable christians on celebrations. Chief Minister Punjab Shahbaz Sharif specially announced 26 Dec. holiday alongwith 25 .27 is also holiday , so 3 consecitives holidays. He also announced 5 months cut ito all christian prisoners in jails. PML(Q), PPPP, PTI,and above all Dr.Tahir ul Qadri,Pakistan top religious scholar celebrated it by inviting US counsellor Brian Hunt and Bishop Lahore :)
Re: celebrating christmas
The people who work at our house in Pakistan are mostly Christians, and they celebrate both Eid and Xmas, with almost the same vigor with us.
ok, so you cannot celebrate the birth of an Islaamic prophet tomorrow....
so celebrate the birth of a regular man, a politician - Jinnah...be merry and enjoy the holiday!
ps SHEESH man...do the christian minority over in Pak complain, beech and moan this much at Eid time?
you didn't get my point,
Islam is a way of life which provides an answer to everything. Islam says to avoid sin just avoid the root of it all. I am not saying not to celebrate christmas just because it celebrates a prophet's birthday, you have to look at the overall picture. sure you might say, i am celebrating christmas without all the kufr stuff, but are you not indirectly supporting the kufr holiday? dunno if u understand what i am saying still. sorry for the confusion.
The people who work at our house in Pakistan are mostly Christians, and they celebrate both Eid and Xmas, with almost the same vigor with us.
Plus also very honurable christians like Lahore best Girls College is Kinnaird College is chrisian with almost all staff,professors etc. Similarly FC college , St Anthony school,Cathredal schools are Lahore best schools and have christians mostly in staff.
BTW Musharraf is graduate of FC college :D
Oh, christmas is a pagan holiday, poor chrisitians just adapted to whatever they liked, us Muslims shouldn't be like that. We can have a long discussion with facts about the pagan holiday if you want :) but I don't want to bore your nor do I want to waste my time..
alright so let's not use kafir. but the person committing kufr (ie beliving Isa alaysalam was born in this day, son of god, etc) is a kafir. so if we take part in their acts of kufr, are we not indirectly accepting them? our beloved Prophet (pbuh) forbid us this very thing. not to adapt to the kufar's ways, especially the ways that go against Islam.
you can happily celebrate this time of year without accepting christmas and going about things with a christmas label. you can receive and give gifts to non-muslims without the intention of christmas. :)
Yes, according to Allah (swt)'s command, we are only to celebrate two occassion - the two Eids. That's it. Those two occasions basically celebrate our obedience to Allah (swt).
However, Pakistanis and Muslims in general have a thousand and one cultural and sub-religious days that they celebrate, i.e. Independence Day, Jinnah day (or whatever it's called).
Muslims cannot scorn upon the religious celebrations of the People of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians). C'mon people, the freedom of religion is not only promoted and encouraged according to the Prophet (saw) but a Muslim's duty.
CP - people have different levels of iman and different levels of knowledge when it comes to religion. Please respect those. If a Muslim wants to say Merry Christmas and get a tree and teache his/her kids about Santa's visit - then with all due respect, it's their choice. There is no compulsion in religion - never forget, brother!
Re: celebrating christmas
im not forcing anyone. just presenting my view that's all :)
and i think you took it the wrong way, i never said im against "freedom of religion", that's totally irrelevant.
so it is encouraged ok, but are their religious celebrations encouraged and promoted too? i don't believe so.
anyways, i respect your view as you do mine. jazakallah.
im not forcing anyone. just presenting my view that's all :)
and i think you took it the wrong way, i never said im against "freedom of religion", that's totally irrelevant.
so it is encouraged *ok, but are their religious celebrations encouraged and promoted too? i don't believe so. *
anyways, i respect your view as you do mine. jazakallah.
Okay, clearly I no longer have a clue as to what you're trying to say.
Re: celebrating christmas
simple, ask, would our Prophet (pbuh) have celebrated christmas like some of us do? that's what im trying to get at.
Re: celebrating christmas
acknowledging each others' holidays with a genuine well wishing attitude is a reward in itself, because which ever faith one believes in, is represented by that simple action of rejoicing and humility in partaking and sharing a good feeling of festivity.
it will not make anyone lesser in being from their own faith.
thanking the higher being, being around close friends and family, especially being charitable and giving to deserving poor and indigent people, is a good effect that the spirit of religious holidays cause in good people to engage in selfless acts of kindness and feel connected to as good friendly people, with each other.
the lights on trees and snow outside is nice. christmas songs are nice. the christmas atmoshphere is nice even though i do not celebrate it.
we celebrate christmas here also. when the kids were little santa used to visit us christmas eve. the boys played along until missy found out about santa. from that time mr. weasel put a stop to my being santa but the kids xchanged gifts among themselves. we have always decorated and my tree is looking pretty this year too . My gift to kids is a big traditional dinner, I know a cheap way out. This year tho the older master weasel pulled a fast one by buying a gift for me too as he has a job this year. That put me on a panic mode. Our kids are blessed and have everything they can dream of. I went all nostalgic this year and bought some stuff they used to enjoyed when growing up. from mama baba they get nerf guns and bows and plane & boat models. Santa will bring the boys pokemon collectible figures and ren and stimpy first season dvd and missy will get a hello kitty room phone and cartoons too. I have a feeling the other 2 are giving me something after finding out about big bros gift to me. Its great to be a mommy. :biggthumb
Re: celebrating christmas
The most amazing part is, all those people who are so much against becoming part of Christmas celebration do enjoy all the festivities, enjoy time off from work, go to malls to take advantage of Christmas sale.
Should not they be saying NO to all this also. Tell your boss that you want to come to work cause you are Muslim and don't believe in Christmas, stop buying things on sale and insist on paying full price, only then I will see those people as true Muslims.
Re: celebrating christmas
TLK.. I dun see a logic here.. that was plain silly!
simple, ask, would our Prophet (pbuh) have celebrated christmas like some of us do? that's what im trying to get at.
Ahh, okay.
So why worry about how* some* of us are celebrating it - that's for them to worry about. Let us make sure we do what we think is the right thing.
p.s. Lead by example, brother.