Case of Punjab...we refuse to be lesser citizens...

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

The solution for you to the same problem in 1947 was to make another 100% and the solution for some in Pakistan even today is to make another 100%. But for me its provincial autonomy. Pakistan was also supposed to be a combination of independant states.

[QUOTE]
Why do you think I would agree on being 0.4 citizen of Pakistan
[/QUOTE]

Why do you think anyone else would want to be a lesser citizen? Make an autonomous Punjab province and become a 1 Punjabi/Pakistani citizen.

[QUOTE]
Your argument about earning more or less is totally baseless...now suppose there are 4 brothers running a shop. One brother is sitting on cash counter. Now the brother refuses to recognize the effort of other brothers and says as he is collecting the cash therefore it is his income...

FYI Punjab contributes over 78 percent to the exports...over 75 in home remittances...major chunk in all the industrial fields, cotton, rice, leather, carpet, paper, household, fans, washing machines, engineering, automobiles, tractors, motor cycles, cycles, consumer items (nestle-lever), milk, meat, poultry and everything you can imagine with 62 percent contribution in GDP B
[/QUOTE]

With all these earnings, you shouldn't be having any reason to oppose the autonomy of Punjab. As i can see you are sooo rich, why are you sooo hell bent on giving away all ur wealth as charity to others? Eat what your crop, make ur own trade agreements, and let other provinces do the same. You shouldn't be having any objection to it. As per ur stats, you will only benefit from such a system.

Time Pass ... Jan 2@14
22

Atleast we would be devolving power one stage down. In a provincial setup some districts might still get neglected but the current system means neglecting whole provinces (not a few districts). I think the number of affected people is more in the current setup than it would be in the provincial setup. Once provinces are given power, districts can then demand more autonomy for themselves. People in every district will have to work in order to prosper. In that way power and resources have a better chance of getting divided fairly. Atleast sense of deprivation will decrease.

Time Pass ... Jan 2@14
23

See you are the aggrieved party. You shouldn't be having any problem if somebody is asking you to have ur full share.

24

Re: Case of Punjab...we refuse to be lesser citizens...

Shadan, now you are talking about a completey different thing, provincial autonomy. Be specific, what exactly you mean by provincial autonomy? What you want the provinces to get that they are not getting now in terms of autonomy.

With regards to NWFP or Pakhtunkhaw, whatever you want to name it, you will be much more vulnerable to less development and education with provincial autonomy. Religious parties are likely to be strongest in NWFP, and look at the laws they wil bring to NWFP, like Hasba bill, Sharia bill etc. WOuld you want that to happen?

25

By provincial autonomy I mean financial and political autonomy.
(1) The people in every province should have the right to elect their representatives into (real)power. People in Balochistan, Sindh or NWFP cannot elect people of their choice into power today under the current setup.
(2) Every province should have the right to make its own trade agreements nationally and internationally.

[QUOTE]
With regards to NWFP or Pakhtunkhaw, whatever you want to name it, you will be much more vulnerable to less development and education with provincial autonomy. Religious parties are likely to be strongest in NWFP, and look at the laws they wil bring to NWFP, like Hasba bill, Sharia bill etc. WOuld you want that to happen?
[/QUOTE]

Let the problems of other provinces be solved by their own people. Don't think of us as if we are incompetant and illetrate people who don't know how to make laws and all. Please don't think Punjab is a messiah saving all the neglected people of Pakistan. Hasba Bill and Sharia Bill would be dealt by the people of NWFP as they want. I don't want to argue them because then the topic would be dirverted to somewhere else. But just want to let you know that the Hasba Bill Sharia bill people wouldn't have come to power if they were not brought to power by the not so pashtoon ISI. So lets not talk about that. We are civilized people and we can make laws and take care of ourselves.

26

I am for investing more in Baluchistan and NWFP since they have been neglected. You started the discussion with problems in the democratic system of one person one vote which has no relation with provincial autonomy.

I think major hurdle to provincial autonomy is (perceived or actual) aggressive stance of India towards Pakistan and the armed forces need the current system to continue for central and efficient policy and decision making.

I also think we are moving towards provincial autonomy with gradual denationalization of services (like electricity supply companies and banks) and strengthening of local bodies.

27

The provincial autonomy argument was presented as a solution to the question of deprivation raised by someone in this thread.

[QUOTE]
I think major hurdle to provincial autonomy is (perceived or actual) aggressive stance of India towards Pakistan and the armed forces need the current system to continue for central and efficient policy and decision making.
[/QUOTE]

India is not a problem, poverty and corruption is. What threat is India to a common man in nwfp or in any other province? Why should we be enemies with them? The Quaid didn't want us to be enemies rather to live like two friendly neighbours. So lets be good neighbours. The only reason why we don't want to be friends with them is Kashmir. And specifically militancy in Kashmir. Can we really take Kashmir by force? No. Even your generals will tell u this. Then lets tell this to India. We don't want to take Kashmir by force. We respect their right of freedom and we will diplomatically support them. But we are not prepared to wage war on you for them. Let Kashmiris rise and decide what they want and then fight politically or in watever way they want. Lets stop spending on our defence like crazy and rather concetrate on eliminating poverty and corruption from the country. Indiaphobia hasn't given us anything and i don't see us benefiting from it in the future.

[QUOTE]
I also think we are moving towards provincial autonomy with gradual denationalization of services (like electricity supply companies and banks) and strengthening of local bodies.
[/QUOTE]

I don't think we have moved towards anything other than chaos in the last 62 years. The parliament is neither able nor capable of legislating. With 56% representation of Punjab, and 44% shared by all the other provinces together, no law can be passed in which Punjab suffers anyway.

28

This kind of autonomy is unacceptable where janitors job is given to Balachistan, NWFP is appointed chowkidar, punjab has to run the shop and cash counter will be given to Sindh...Autonomy has to be with sealed borders Where collection is done where contribution is made !

29

Each province will have its own shop. Punjab doesn't have to run the shop for all others. We want to take some burden off you.

30

Re: Case of Punjab...we refuse to be lesser citizens...

Could you give an example of a legislation which NWFP wanted passed and Punjab blocked it?

31

i hate to write this but i have to.

and asking for more its gas and petrol royalty free (60% of pakistan gas comes from sindh), have used its ports without paying a thing back, have stole its industries by creating chaos in sindh, encouraging terror cells and dacoits thus transferring all the industries, stealing its water for years.

my dear if sindh had not been there you would have worth nothing but a wheat seller so chill out... and please quote me punjab contribution to sindh economy...

Cousin Marriage ... Islam Allows it but.....
32

That cannot be right bro, Punjab tou sab ka haq maarta hai. Punjab is Paris in comparison with other provinces. I am sure we spend at least 90% on Punjab and the rest 10% goes to other three provinces.
Seriously, do people ever look at these figures before blaming Punjab for everything??I don't give a damn about this Punjabi-Sindhi-Balochi-Pathan crap but all you read on this forum is Punjab's zulm on other provinces. It almost feels as if other provinces do all the hardwork and ZAALIM Punjabis just sit and eat, as if we make absolutely no contribution to the country????

Sorry for going off topic here.....
Only Punjabis get all the blame for breaking Pakistan to create Bangladesh, everyone forgets that the first major conflict between east and west Pakistan started because of LANGUAGE issue. We tried to impose Urdu on East Pakistanis (not that i agree with Bengalis on this issue), now we all know that Punjabis aren't Urdu speaking so why was it fault of Punjabis????
Bhutto's arrogance also played a huge part ( i do respect him as a politician though) and he wasn't Punjabi, was he????
East Pakistanis produced Jute and we used that and earnt huge money but most of the west Pakistani businessmen were from karachi but Punjabis get all the blame of exploiting Bengalis as well.

Pakistanis should open their eyes and get over this ethnic crap, we won't get anywhere. It's easy to put all the blame on others but need to look at ourselves first. It's just like blaming America for everything in Pakistan, there is no doubt that Americans are playing dirty games but 90% of the problems is our own.

33

There you go, this is exactly what i meant. There is MASSIVE amount of development (i m proud of that) going on in Karachi but they are still crying.
Creating chaos in Sindh???
Encouraging terror cells and dacoits???
Altaf bhai ne tou nahi sikhaya yeh sab??? There has been industries in some parts of Punjab even before the independence. Most of the industries in Silakot, Gujranwala and Faisalabad are there for decades and obviously some new ones have also emerged, it's quite shameful for you to claim that they have been transferred by encouraging dacoits (that's quite childish to be honest).

Time Pass ... Jan 2@14
34

Re: Case of Punjab...we refuse to be lesser citizens...

Arguably a well-researched document, the presentation successfully questioned the myth that Punjab was benefiting unfairly or excessively from the existing resource distribution formula based on population, arguing the province was getting just 47 per cent allocation from the divisible pool against its 57 per cent population.

Punjab Finance Minister Kaira said per capita financial resources distribution in Punjab stand at Rs3,073, Sindh (Rs4,826), NWFP (Rs4,032) and in Balochistan at Rs6,365.

**He said these figures have been acquired from the centre and according to them poverty incidence is highest in Punjab. When this scribe wanted to know if this meant that Balochistan was the most prosperous federating unit, Kaira said Balochistan has five per cent population and it gets five per cent from the divisible pool while Punjab is taking just 47 per cent allocation as against 57 per cent population.

He said if poverty is included as a factor for the basis of new mechanism of resource distribution mechanism, then Punjab and the NWFP would be the beneficiaries.

According to a copy of the presentation of Punjab available with The News, per capita development expenditures in Punjab stand at Rs1,531 while the figure for Balochistan is Rs3,590.

Balochistan is spending Rs4,976 per person on law and order where as Punjab is spending just Rs2,576. Punjab in its presentation stressed for distribution formula based on population, but subject to judicious vertical and horizontal resource distribution among the four federating units.**

Unfortunately people like Junaid ignore these fact based figures and believe more on conspiracy theories like "encouraging dacoits to transfer industries from Sindh"

35

My dear friend,

Twenty six percent to GDP incudes oil+gas+amrod you grow in malir..Punjab is not eating your aba jaan ka money...so better you chill !!!

36

Re: Case of Punjab...we refuse to be lesser citizens...

Malir kay jam ka mazaq na uraho!!! They are the best in Pakistan!

Powerful blast targets passenger bus in Quetta
37

My dear, its one job to beat the drum and its another to put forward a thought out plan.

Plz be specific, what do you want in terms of financial autonomy? Does this mean that you want to seel electricity generatd in NWFP at your own rates? I can't think of another resource of NWFP at present. IF thats what you mean then i have no problems with it, but, then every province will be free to charge its products at cost it wants.

Then i don't know what real power do you want, we know that army is the most powerful institution and it has over-representation of pashtoons, compared to its population.

Punjab has no desire nor any need to rule over NWFP.

38

This is from Wikipedia

The Pakistani Punjab produces 68% of Pakistan’s food grain production.[12]](Punjab - Wikipedia) Its share of Pakistan’s GDP has historically ranged from 51.8% to 54.7%.[13]](Punjab - Wikipedia)

You do know about 60% of gas but why do you forget 68% of FOOD grain production???
Gas is a NATURAL resource whereas there is a lot more effort involved in food production. For examples, those Saudis should thank GOD for giving them so much petrol, they hardly made any effort and are still enjoying best lifestyle so you can call them LUCKY but can’t appreciate their effort.

You are trying to belittle Punjab’s contribution, we are all contributing to our country and we should appreciate each other’s contribution.

39

Good point about over-representation of Pushtoons compared to their population. Another myth that only Punjabis are hired in Army, isn't it obvious when more than half of population belongs to Punjab????

Guys vs Gurlz
40

Sindh not only gets royalty from gas, its gas is priced much more than the gas of Balochistan. The current system of gas pricing is based on well head price. Ministry of Petroleum & Natural Resources - Government of Pakistan

Where Sindh gets paid more for the same unit of gas produced compared to Balochistan. And also Sindh gets 69% of gas royalty WHICH IS NOT PART OF FEDERAL DIVISIBLE POOL but PAID DIRECTLY TO SINDH.

Under country’s constitutional article 161 provinces get royalty, surcharge and excise duty on Oil and gas resources. Collection from these two is not part of Federal Divisible Pool, federal government after deducting 2.5% collection transfers directly to provinces.
For current fiscal year 2008-09, federal budget estimated Rs 57 amount to be collected for royalty distribution, provinces were to get following share
Sindh Rs 39.4 billion 69%
Balochistan Rs 8.3 14%
Punjab Rs 5 9%
NWFP Rs 4.3 billion 8%
Pakistan Energy Report- Sindh produces 31% more than what it consumes Indus Asia Online Journal (iaoj)