Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

[OYMWA]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@redvelvet

One day a friend and I were playfully sparring about whose caste was better. We both, however said that neither of our families practice it. Evidence to support that would be that my sister married a guy who was neither from the same ethnic group nor caste as us. That playful duel made me curious about what kinds of general societal stereotypes and perceptions exist about the various castes…so I did a search on Google…and there was very little to be found. Would my curiosity warrant a chiding lecture from you and the others? I don 't believe that it would.

Jab aik banday ne…ab aa kar…apnay moonh se clarify kar dia hai as to what his intentions were for creating this thread…then as Muslims we should give him the benefit of the doubt rather than persisting to be suspicious of his motives even after he has clarified them.

If you wanna bring religion into it…then by all means do that. It’s a no-brainer that Islam doesn’t condone a caste system. However, there are far more basic admonitions in Islam that even the most “open-minded” of us tend to forget…such as avoiding suspicion of your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters and if you have doubts about their motives… it’s better to ask them for a clarification first rather than to assume things about them. It’s strange how we end up taking two step backwards in our mentality when we imagine ourselves to be four steps forward.

OP was never asked for a clarification. And its kinda cruel to continue doubting him even after he tried to clear the air… That’s like closing ur mind to a person and grabbing them by the throat. And that’s prolly the kind of of mentality that fuels groups like Isis.

Now that you’ve put SID_NY in his place, give us the ranking.

[Balthier]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@redvelvet

That playful duel made me curious about what kinds of general societal stereotypes and perceptions exist about the various castes…so I did a search on Google…and there was very little to be found.

Among people from rural Pakistan, there are plentiful of stereotypes and perceptions.

As for ranking, I know for sure that Jatt, Gujjar and derivations of these casts are considered superior to the working class, consisting of qaasbis, mochees, tailis and such. Some even call the latter “kuttay billay” (ie not worthy of being considered human beings). Caste system is a real cause for concern in rural Pakistan. Don’t know about the larger cities, but never heard my neighbors and acquaintances mention caste in Islamabad.

In any case, like so many times before, @Southie is the one making the most sense in a thread. All discrimination and bigotry is wrong.

[Southie]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

You forgot liberal vs. conservative, left vs. right. A liberal that looks at each issue as either black or white is same as an extremist that looks at the world and says, ‘with me or against me’. All extremists are of the same ilk. Heck they use the same language. You just need to change the nouns to recycle the hate. Fortunately for most of us, the world is not black and white, but several shades of gray.

If the “most of us” you refer to includes people who have to raise “two sides” to some obvious issues, I am glad I don’t see gray where there is none.

Assigning blame where it overwhelmingly belongs is not just liberal. It is honest.

Those who make excuses for abhorrent conduct by authorities by bringing up red herrings are part of the problem.

That makes liberals see red.

Cheers.

[redvelvet]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

Now that you’ve put SID_NY in his place, give us the ranking.

Sure OMYA. So, you can rest in peace eh?

I’ve heard that Brahmins are at the top of the ladder in the Indian caste hierarchy. I might have picked that up from various courses and movies. Do I believe it? Nope. I treat it like basic knowledge about a society’s general perception on a matter…no matter how warped it may be.

So my friend…or former friend rather…the one I was playfully sparring with one day about castes…is a Rajput. I am an Arain. So, it sparked a curiosity within me about caste perception and I googled it. Not much was to be found. I even tried to search on GS. My search yielded that rajputs seemed to be considered higher in the hierarchy and then I had also read somewhere that now the Arains have caught up so that the division between the two isn’t as marked. So based on that…I could say that society tends to rank the former higher than my own caste. But that doesn’t mean I agree with this ranking. In the end I was amused by the notion of it…I didn’t care. And before you assume that I am making jest if a serious social issue…I’m not. By amused…I mean that I find it silly.

Even in attempting to tackle and reform the warped perceptions of society…be it the caste system…or fair skin vs dark…one first has to get an idea of the general mental ranking that society has set up. And in learning about that ranking…even just for the sake of gaining knowledge…doesn’t automatically render the seeker of that knowledge a “follower” of the caste system.

[Southie]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

^ Aryaputri

[OYMWA]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@redvelvet

Sure OMYA. So, you can rest in peace eh?

I’ve heard that Brahmins are at the top of the ladder in the Indian caste hierarchy. I might have picked that up from various courses and movies. Do I believe it? Nope. I treat it like basic knowledge about a society’s general perception on a matter…no matter how warped it may be.

So my friend…or former friend rather…the one I was playfully sparring with one day about castes…is a Rajput. I am an Arain. So, it sparked a curiosity within me about caste perception and I googled it. Not much was to be found. I even tried to search on GS. My search yielded that rajputs seemed to be considered higher in the hierarchy and then I had also read somewhere that now the Arains have caught up so that the division between the two isn’t as marked. So based on that…I could say that society tends to rank the former higher than my own caste. But that doesn’t mean I agree with this ranking. In the end I was amused by the notion of it…I didn’t care. And before you assume that I am making jest if a serious social issue…I’m not. By amused…I mean that I find it silly.

Even in attempting to tackle and reform the warped perceptions of society…be it the caste system…or fair skin vs dark…one first has to get an idea of the general mental ranking that society has set up. And in learning about that ranking…even just for the sake of gaining knowledge…doesn’t automatically render the seeker of that knowledge a “follower” of the caste system.

You talk like my sister. She can talk for half an hour non-stop, without really saying anything.

[OYMWA]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@Southie

If the “most of us” you refer to includes people who have to raise “two sides” to some obvious issues, I am glad I don’t see gray where there is none.

Assigning blame where it overwhelmingly belongs is not just liberal. It is honest.

Those who make excuses for abhorrent conduct by authorities by bringing up red herrings are part of the problem.

That makes liberals see red.

Cheers.

Now where did I hear that logic? Oh yeah. Rush in his radio show, every single day. He was just cribbing about something that was to his left, which is pretty much everything, except KKK.

[redvelvet]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

You talk like my sister. She can talk for half an hour non-stop, without really saying anything.

You talk like my pardada Jee. Lakh samjhanay k baad bhi dheet banday ko kab samajh main aata hai? Just understand two things: 1) I don’t condone the caste system and whatever ranking society has set up. 2) A person who is curious about the ranking does not necessarily render them a proponent or follower of the caste system. If that’s too much for you…then just understand point # 2. Bas. Peace.

[PeshawarKameez]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

You talk like my sister. She can talk for half an hour non-stop, without really saying anything.

He said plenty, guess you just failed to understand any of it

and surely thats an oxymoron, talking without saying anything? or is she on silent

[OYMWA]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@redvelvet

You talk like my pardada Jee. Lakh samjhanay k baad bhi dheet banday ko kab samajh main aata hai? Just understand two things: 1) I don’t condone the caste system and whatever ranking society has set up. 2) A person who is curious about the ranking does not necessarily render them a proponent or follower of the caste system. If that’s too much for you…then just understand point # 2. Bas. Peace.

Thank you for the succinct reply. Still no ranking; so I am assuming you don’t know what it is.

[OYMWA]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@PeshawarKameez

He said plenty, guess you just failed to understand any of it

and surely thats an oxymoron, talking without saying anything? or is she on silent

Its your thread; as long as you understood it, am fine.

[PeshawarKameez]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@Southie

Don’t we do that anyway? Shia vs Sunni. Ahmadis - are they muslims or not? Gays - are they sinners? Shoukd they be condemned to death

While we are at it, don’t we rank based on whether someone is religious, atheist or agnostic?
And a subset of religion - don’t we rank religions here? There is one perfect religion and one perfect book.

So not clear why only caste discussions.are not pertinent to 21st century. Could it be because the rest of the backward topics are allowed per the perfect religion?

EXACTLY. love how everyone seems to be taking the moral high ground when it comes to a completly innocent discussion about castes

‘how dare you judge, castes are not part of Islam… now lets all go back to hating on Shias and Ahmadis’ oh this typical world we live in…

[PeshawarKameez]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

Thank you for the succinct reply. Still no ranking; so I am assuming you don’t know what it is.

rather than sitting there feeling cocky how about you prove your arrogance to us and rank them for us then?

[redvelvet]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

Thank you for the succinct reply. Still no ranking; so I am assuming you don’t know what it is.

If you take pride in your succintness then at least give it some purpose.

No, I do not have a ranking for all the castes. I do not even know the names of all the castes. I have only heard comparison of rankings between 2 or 3 castes.

The fact that I don’t have complete knowledge of a breakdown of ALL the rakings doesn’t mean that there isn’t a general ranking based on stereotypes or whatever that is commonly known among society.

If you’re trying to point out to SID and others that "Look Rv is running her mouth as usual but she still hasn’t answered the OP’s question about what is the ranking"..…then here…I will admit that I don’t know. But tell me OMWYA…does pointing this out about me to people…make the assumption that OP follows the caste-system or that he endorses it more valid? No, it doesn’t.

Go back to my original post in this thread. I NEVER answered nor addressed the OP’s question about ranking. I ONLY addressed the matter of people chiding him for even asking such a question as though he is a proponent of the blasted system. For you to make a “show” of continuing to ask me “So where’s the ranking?” “No ranking from you yet RV”…does not make people’s assumptions and attitude about OP more logical.

[PeshawarKameez]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@redvelvet

If you take pride in your succintness then at least give it some purpose.

No, I do not have a ranking for all the castes. I do not even know the names of all the castes. I have only heard comparison of rankings between 2 or 3 castes.

The fact that I don’t have complete knowledge of a breakdown of ALL the rakings doesn’t mean that there isn’t a general ranking based on stereotypes or whatever that is commonly known among society.

If you’re trying to point out to SID and others that "Look Rv is running her mouth as usual but she still hasn’t answered the OP’s question about what is the ranking"..…then here…I will admit that I don’t know. But tell me OMWYA…does pointing this out about me to people…make the assumption that OP follows the caste-system or that he endorses it more valid? No, it doesn’t.

Go back to my original post in this thread. I NEVER answered nor addressed the OP’s question about ranking. I ONLY addressed the matter of people chiding him for even asking such a question as though he is a proponent of the blasted system. For you to make a “show” of continuing to ask me “So where’s the ranking?” “No ranking from you yet RV”…does not make people’s assumptions and attitude about OP more logical.

thank you redvelvet, at least you were honest enough to admit that you do not know. nothing embarrassing about that at all. far more noble that what OYMWA is doing, attempting to be a know-it-all whilst failing to answer the question himself. as soon as we ask him to step up he conveniently runs away. can you hear that chicken clucking? bwuck bwuck

[redvelvet]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

^Oh I am not embarrassed. And I don’t think OMYA is pretending to know. Nor do I care if he does know the ranking. I felt like he was slapping me on the wrist for “putting Sid in place” by asking me if can now actually bother to answer the original question of the thread. Perhaps OMWYA thought that my failure to provide the answer would somehow justify that even asking about a ranking is foolish or offensive. So, I wanted to clarify to him that my not knowing the complete ranking doesn’t validate the assumptions made about OP’s intentions. As Jolie said earlier…it’s good to know how the world around u works.

[SummerFruits]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

tbh I don’t know why ranking caste’s is getting everyone so worked up, when we have bigger issues, i.e. as someone mentioned above - Sunni v Shia which are causing far more problems than a simple caste system. It’s a part of our culture. Like it or lump it.

[Obama]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@PeshawarKameez

Trying to understand which is higher than which. From what I know there is: Punjab, Kashmiri, Rajput, Pathan, Arain, not sure if Jat, chowdary and sheikh are also considered castes or not

Ok someone’s got to educate this young lady obviously from a higher caste of Hindustan’s established caste system culture!

In Pakistan we have

**1. Shahheen on top of the World

2. Shah Baaz is next

3. Shikra is number three

4. Shutter Murg is fourth!

5. Sher Shah is fifth

6. Luggar Bagga is sixth

7. Geedar comes in last!

I hope all that is clear now!

**

[Southie]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@OYMWA

Now where did I hear that logic? Oh yeah. Rush in his radio show, every single day. He was just cribbing about something that was to his left, which is pretty much everything, except KKK.

The classic both sides are extreme response by the Moderates.

How about them Moderates! Not as bad as the rethugs is the best thing that comes to mind.

Am out of this discussion with you. Cheers.

[OYMWA]

Re: Can you rank the castes from highest to lowest

@redvelvet

If you take pride in your succintness then at least give it some purpose.

No, I do not have a ranking for all the castes. I do not even know the names of all the castes. I have only heard comparison of rankings between 2 or 3 castes.

Thank you for that.

@redvelvet

The fact that I don’t have complete knowledge of a breakdown of ALL the rakings doesn’t mean that there isn’t a general ranking based on stereotypes or whatever that is commonly known among society.

If you’re trying to point out to SID and others that “Look Rv is running her mouth as usual but she still hasn’t answered the OP’s question about what is the ranking**”..**…then here…I will admit that I don’t know. But tell me OMWYA…does pointing this out about me to people…make the assumption that OP follows the caste-system or that he endorses it more valid? No, it doesn’t.

Thank you also for that.

@redvelvet

Go back to my original post in this thread. I NEVER answered nor addressed the OP’s question about ranking.

One more thanks for that.

@redvelvet

I ONLY addressed the matter of people chiding him for even asking such a question as though he is a proponent of the blasted system. For you to make a “show” of continuing to ask me “So where’s the ranking?” “No ranking from you yet RV”…does not make people’s assumptions and attitude about OP more logical.

Now here, he was not chided for his views on caste, but advised not to waste time trying to rank them. Because just last week we saw a thread about hyderabadis vs punjabis where a lot of silliness was spewed.

Personally I don’t care about all this caste business. But the way we made a spectacle of ourselves here, a Hindu, from among whom we inherited this non-sense, was able to come here and pretty much say that Islam is deficient in dealing with this. When Islam has clearly erased these boundaries, we still go about with it making excuses like, ’ the way the world works’, ‘hey my forefathers did it’ etc. I don’t mind us having an open discussion about castes, tribes, ethnicities etc, ( and we have a forum for it ) but trying to rank them is simply mischief.