Can we define God by the way of science?

[Southie]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

What is Walahu Alam? Great man?

[TLK]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@Southie

What is Walahu Alam? Great man?

“only God knows the truth”. Its usually said at the end, just to admit that we are only humans, and any piece of information we are passing may not be 100% correct

[queer]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@redvelvet

If a non-Muslim scientist was to dismiss the the Quran’s explanation only based on English translation, then it’s a huge folly on his part. The English is so limited that it does not adequately capture the actual Arabic meaning. For instance if the English transliteration says “day”…in Arabic that day could refer to a long stretch of time, not the 24 hour period that the English transliteration would suggest. So, a non-Muslim scientist who wants to conduct research fairly and with integrity will have do delve more deeply into the linguistic structure of the Quran. What do you think, TLK?

by this logic, muslim scientists are at a huge advantage over the non-muslim scientists.

but if you look at the pudding…

as recently as 1985, the grand mufti of saudi arabia, one who cant be accused of not understanding arabic or studying the quran enough… claimed the earth is flat, sun rotated around earth and other many such absurdities.

you would be hard-pressed to find such beliefs in places outside of religious dogma today.

[bella88]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@redvelvet

I gave the example of Bucaille because his findings are relevant to the thread and he’s the only name I know of who has compared scientific findings to religious texts. I had said in my post that it’s up to the individual to decide if they’re convinced. Even if I had used the reference of a bigger name than Bucaille such as Einstein, it is still up to the individual to decide if they believe in God and what they believe His nature to be.
Now back to your question. Your quip of a rebuttal, Alhumdolillah, makes no difference to my iman. I only gave the example of one scientist, but if you thought “Oh yeah RV, Ima fire back atchya with MANY scientists who believe that your Quran is invalid, so whatchya gonna do now eh?” MashaAllah, it doesn’t make me doubt the validity of the Quran or my faith. My reasons may seem foolish to you and so be it, but even an army of scientists are just limited beings like me. Despite their knowledge about the universe, which isn’t complete, they did not create this universe nor do they control it, they only study it and put forth theories. Also, when faced with a crisis…something wholly out of their control…something their own scientific and medical knowledge cannot resolve…it is in these moments that the atheist, be it a scientist or otherwise, will helplessly cry out, “God, or someone, if you’re out there…please save my child…please save my life, etc etc.” It is during such storms that even the most dheet of of faith rejectors and atheists will forget about their oft-harped argument that “Look at all the suffering, there is no God”…and will suddenly depend on the thing kind called faith which they find so abhorrent and dangerous and ridiculous. So, yeah, while you n your lot may not be impressed by Bucaille, I am not deterred by your army of Quran opposing scientists.

I am not here to make you doubt your imaan which im sure is very strong. Just like you are not trying to convince me to believe in your religion, I am not trying to make you stop believing in yours. I just made a comment regarding the ‘science’ part.

[bella88]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@TLK

Many doodhwala also claim that Soya Milk is not good for your health. What do you want to say about those doodhwalas?

Joke aside, point is, are those scientist expert in Quran? Can you give examples where Quran is not in harmony?

I cant get into that here, I will get attacked by your fellow defenders of religion. But if you’re interested in searching, then simply search online for scientific errors in Quran. you will come across plenty. many ex-muslim websites, and forums go into details as well, those people have actually studied Qur’an in depth all their lives before abandoning religion.

[TLK]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@bella88

I cant get into that here, I will get attacked by your fellow defenders of religion. But if you’re interested in searching, then simply search online for scientific errors in Quran. you will come across plenty. many ex-muslim websites, and forums go into details as well, those people have actually studied Qur’an in depth all their lives before abandoning religion.

achcha choro iss baat ko. tell me when are you sending me eidi?

[bella88]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@TLK

achcha choro iss baat ko. tell me when are you sending me eidi?

Bhai, eidi is given by older people to the younger ones. you should give me

[Monk]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@bella88

I cant get into that here, I will get attacked by your fellow defenders of religion. But if you’re interested in searching, then simply search online for scientific errors in Quran. you will come across plenty. many ex-muslim websites, and forums go into details as well, those people have actually studied Qur’an in depth all their lives before abandoning religion.

I am very tired but I reply quickly.
One of the most fundamental books about error in quran, which perhaps server the metiral for such website. Was writer by this doctor/preacher.

I heard his detailed presentation.
Get this he say “we have to judge quran on the base of people’s understanding at the time. it came down.”
so what ever people/muslims understood after 1400 years, and made more meaning out of quran, HE DISREGARDS it.

Here is an example

@queer

by this logic, muslim scientists are at a huge advantage over the non-muslim scientists.

but if you look at the pudding…

as recently as 1985, the grand mufti of saudi arabia, one who cant be accused of not understanding arabic or studying the quran enough… claimed the earth is flat, sun rotated around earth and other many such absurdities.

you would be hard-pressed to find such beliefs in places outside of religious dogma today.

In quran its says ‘’‘" that earth was spread flat for you to walk’‘’ (completely in my words)
But quran also says “earth is ovel or egg type shape”(completely in my words)

so a person who know exactly with accuracy that earth is not round but oval shape
how could he make such statement as earth being spread flat???

Answer is quran often talk about different vintage points, earth looks spread flat to us, when we walk on it ? earth looks round/oval when looked from above.

That dude.. would pick… flat earth.. what grand mufti.. or muslims 1300 years ago to prove his point.

IF you want to fall for such scholarship… I dont know what to tell you.

By the way all his question were answered 8 or some year his book was published.

[redvelvet]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@bella88

I cant get into that here, I will get attacked by your fellow defenders of religion. But if you’re interested in searching, then simply search online for scientific errors in Quran. you will come across plenty. many ex-muslim websites, and forums go into details as well, those people have actually studied Qur’an in depth all their lives before abandoning religion.

Look up scientific discoveries confirmed by Quran and you’ll find websites supporting that as well.

Type in Quran is plagiarized book, you’ll find links supporting that too.

Type in that Islam in a violent religion, that the Quran has tons of inconsistencies, that the Prophet Muhammad SAWS was a man of questionable or poor charachter (naoouzubillah) and you’ll find links galore supporting that belief too. So, we ALL can find lots of of feel-good validation from Google chacha for our beliefs.

Go to youtube and you will find mannnnnyyyyy videos of atheists who converted to Islam, Former Muslim-Haters who came to Islam, Guard of Guantanamo Bay Prison who converted to Islam, members of the US army who fought in Muslim countries who converted to Islam, porn star who converted to Islam, Rabbis who converted to Islam, Christian/Catholic ministers and priests who converted to Islam, HORDES of people converting to Islam post the tragedies of of 9-11.

You give me examples of ex-Muslims who did in-depth study of Islam…well there are examples out there of people who were priests or rabbis…who dedicated YEARSSS of their lives to studying every nook and cranny of their religion and ended up taking shahaada after attending just one khutbah…or reading the Quran only once…now that’s powerful…to leave behind all your decades of study for a new religion that you’ve not done an in-depth study of…but only barely scratched the surface of.

Just like how YOU don’t give a rat’s butt about all these videos, I and many other Muslims don’t give a squat about your example of videos of “ex-Muslims” who left Islam.

[queer]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

monk pai, its not any “that dude” who claimed it - but the previous grand mufti of saudi arabia who declared in multiple articles spread over multiple decades while he was in office that those who believe the earth rotates around the sun are kafir, and earth is fixed etc.

the reason why you will find only religious scholars say such things so boldly is their knowledge comes almost entirely from religious texts, and they arent clued in onto even basic 3rd grade science.

[Monk]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@queer

monk pai, its not any “that dude” who claimed it - but the previous grand mufti of saudi arabia who declared in multiple articles spread over multiple decades while he was in office that those who believe the earth rotates around the sun are kafir, and earth is fixed etc.

the reason why you will find only religious scholars say such things so boldly is their knowledge comes almost entirely from religious texts, and they arent clued in onto even basic 3rd grade science.

They are human. Thats way.
But a smart person with no ill intention is not likely to make it case against quran.

Also mufti make it to news, but they never invited to give lecture in physics classes.
I promise you that.

[queer]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

excellent excuses. this is the immune system that keeps all this going despite the glaring holes in it.

[Monk]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@queer

excellent excuses. this is the immune system that keeps all this going despite the glaring holes in it.

hole is what ?
Mufti having theory in physics ?
Teacher in schools had theories about religion too.

It does not prove qruan wrong.

I have read the supposed flaw in quran, pointed out by mostly Christians,
It does not appeal to my heart!!
perhaps they are their to protect Christians from islam.

I said clearly picking up one aayet where if you read 2 before and 2 after you know its some one vintage point. Yet if some one pick those to make case.
I think then they dont have a real case.

[bella88]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@redvelvet

Just like how YOU don’t give a rat’s butt about all these videos, I and many other Muslims don’t give a squat about you example of videos of “ex-Muslims” who left Islam.

Learn to read before posting please. my post was not for you, TLK who specifically asked me how Quran is not in harmony with science so I replied to him because he asked him. ofcourse I had to reply to him, im not rude to ignore .

[queer]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

monk pai, christians are no yardstick for reality. these are the same people who killed a bunch of scientists in europe for saying earth revolves around the sun - if you notice - same exact line of reasoning as mr. mufti je. no wonder they are impressed.

[Monk]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

chaddoo jee ab mufti jee ko…

[redvelvet]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@bella88

Learn to read before posting please. my post was not for you, TLK who specifically asked me how Quran is not in harmony with science so I replied to him because he asked him. ofcourse I had to reply to him, im not rude to ignore .

I can read just fine. Since you’re in the habit of telling me to learn how to read, I shall now start on telling you to learn to think before posting for it’s a far more fundamental skill than reading. It’s not a rule that only the intended recipient of your post can quote you and comment on your views. It’s open for other viewers to read and comment upon as well.

[bella88]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@redvelvet

I can read just fine. Since you’re in the habit of telling me to learn how to read, I shall now start on telling you to learn to think before posting for it’s a far more fundamental skill than reading. It’s not a rule that only the intended recipient of your post can quote you and comment on your views. It’s open for other viewers to read and comment upon as well.

then why are you saying "you don’t give a rat’s butt’?. for someone who doesn’t give a rat’s butt, you sure do seem to care too much on what I have to say lol.

[queer]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

@Monk

chaddoo jee ab mufti jee ko…

na je.. he’s not some simpal mufti je. he was The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia - this is the guy who sets policy for muslims everywhere thru his rulings/fatwas. he is also the head of some big shot islamic research committee. see the problem?

[TLK]

Re: Can we define God by the way of science?

Queer, that is why I said in one of my previous posts.

whenever Science and Quran clashed, majority of the times, it was human interpretation of the Quran that clashed with the science and not the Quran itself. We humans are the weakest link in the chain that is trying to connect these two opposite ends.