Doing it before marriage is part of Islam? I didn't know that.
Funny how most women who have had relationships before marriage are the ones saying there is nothing wrong with it.
Omg Angrezi parhi hai is se pehle ya this is the first time?
Honestly, if you expect me to dissect my post into tiny little bits so its easier for you to grasp...its not gonna happen.
As for the second line, you can't possibly expect me to be offended considering the source.
Aqalmand ke liye ishara kafi hota hai. Aa ke liye to billboard bhi kam parega.
It is unreasonable to divorce someone because of a past that is long over and done with.
I don't understand this about people who are very religious or claim to be very religious. Islam is supposed to make you a better, kinder and more forgiving person. Your connection with Allah swt is supposed to give you more sabr and strength. When your faith fails to touch your heart and reflect in the treatment of those around you, I believe it stops being about your faith. It becomes acrobats on a rug. A beard could be a goatee. Saving yourself could be another way of saying no one you liked wanted you.
Saving yourself is sort of a part of Pakistani culture. The OP is just a very cultured guy but I don't believe this requirement of his has anything to do with Islam. Its just desi.
There's nothing unreasonable in what he wants. Hypothetically speaking, if he were to make everything clear to the girl beforehand, then he found out she wasn't what he wanted, I couldn't judge him for ending things. I believe in second chances and all, but this would be something that affects him and not me so he would have to deal with it. Then again, wouldn't a girl also have a problem being married to a guy who has that problem being married to her? There are after all guys out there who are ready to overlook this kind of thing while others may not be.
Deen covers many aspects. Treating people right while not praying isn't going to make up for that deficiency and vice versa. Saving yourself, though it might also have to do with culture, is the way to go according to deen as well. I can't judge math's intentions (neither can anybody else here for that matter), so I have to assume it's the right one. I think right now, math, this is not the time to be thinking of a divorce before you've even gotten married or seriously looking at a potential. As per my understanding, you've met two and they didn't suit your requirements. What I would suggest is that you end things there and move on. Just focus on what you're looking for. What you're asking for is neither unreasonable nor impossible to find, so keep looking and continue making lots of dua. May Allah find you the one you'll be happy with and who will be happy with you.
There's nothing unreasonable in what he wants. Hypothetically speaking, if he were to make everything clear to the girl beforehand, then he found out she wasn't what he wanted, I couldn't judge him for ending things. I believe in second chances and all, but this would be something that affects him and not me so he would have to deal with it. Then again, wouldn't a girl also have a problem being married to a guy who has that problem being married to her? There are after all guys out there who are ready to overlook this kind of thing while others may not be.
Deen covers many aspects. Treating people right while not praying isn't going to make up for that deficiency and vice versa. Saving yourself, though it might also have to do with culture, is the way to go according to deen as well. I can't judge math's intentions (neither can anybody else here for that matter), so I have to assume it's the right one. I think right now, math, this is not the time to be thinking of a divorce before you've even gotten married or seriously looking at a potential. As per my understanding, you've met two and they didn't suit your requirements. What I would suggest is that you end things there and move on. Just focus on what you're looking for. What you're asking for is neither unreasonable nor impossible to find, so keep looking and continue making lots of dua. May Allah find you the one you'll be happy with and who will be happy with you.
Jazak Allah Khair for the advice bro. Really grateful.
My issue is with people who want to get divorced because of someone's past. I don't care if you want a virgin or someone with two heads. But if you divorce someone because at one point they had one head then it makes you cruel. And no, I don't consider people who do something like this religious...they are just as bad as someone who had a past. Because they do too now. :) See, Allah Tala doesn't let anyone get away with these things...you may think you're leaving someone because of their past and you're right to do so but guess what? Now you have one too and from here on forward - people judge you for your past. This is not what Islam teaches us. Someone that says Alhumdulillah, Mashallah or Inshallah ten times a day isn't religious. Its their actions that speak louder - much louder - than words.
My issue is with people who want to get divorced because of someone's past. I don't care if you want a virgin or someone with two heads. But if you divorce someone because at one point they had one head then it makes you cruel. And no, I don't consider people who do something like this religious...they are just as bad as someone who had a past. Because they do too now. :) See, Allah Tala doesn't let anyone get away with these things...you may think you're leaving someone because of their past and you're right to do so but guess what? Now you have one too and from here on forward - people judge you for your past. This is not what Islam teaches us. Someone that says Alhumdulillah, Mashallah or Inshallah ten times a day isn't religious. Its their actions that speak louder - much louder - than words.
well if they'd told the truth prior to marriage, the marriage wouldnt've happened. its not ok for people to lie about their past and then post marriage say "oh whoops forgot to tell u abt that lil excursion, but its cruel of you to give me a divorce now".
also, i dont think think what math is asking for is unreasonable...the more we accept dating, physical relationships prior to marriage, the more common it'll become. (you know some ppl only consider intercourse as zina...kissing/making out is like shaking hands)
Islamicaly, you don't ask people about their past. If you find out, you cover it. However, if being a virgin or anything else for that matter is a condition for marriage that you setup beforehand, and you later find it out it was not true, that is grounds for divorce if the person wants. This applies to any conditions setup before marriage that don't go against the Shariah. For example, if the woman says that you have to stay with me and not leave to another city/country as a condition before getting married and the guy decides to leave to make a living or for any reason, she can (if she wants) ask for divorce for him breaking the prearranged agreement and being away would come under not giving her her rights ( once again I managed to use a word twice "her" without being grammatically incorrect.). That aside, zina is a one of the biggest sins you can manage to commit in Islam. So it is not to be taken lightly. For a woman, it's her most precious quality and should be saved for the one whom Allah has made it halal. But zina is not fornication alone, it's the flirting, being alone with someone, sharing intimate secrets with non-mahram men, singing in front of non-mahram men, wearing perfume so that non-mahram men can smell it, or many other things.
well if they'd told the truth prior to marriage, the marriage wouldnt've happened. its not ok for people to lie about their past and then post marriage say "oh whoops forgot to tell u abt that lil excursion, but its cruel of you to give me a divorce now".
also, i dont think think what math is asking for is unreasonable...the more we accept dating, physical relationships prior to marriage, the more common it'll become. (you know some ppl only consider intercourse as zina...kissing/making out is like shaking hands)
I am going to have to repeat myself? Okay. What he's asking for - virgin - is great. But I do find it cruel if someone leaves a good marriage because at one point this virgin fell in love with someone and things didn't work out.
I am going to have to repeat myself? Okay. What he's asking for - virgin - is great. But I do find it cruel if someone leaves a good marriage because at one point this virgin fell in love with someone and things didn't work out.
Are you saying it's ok to fornicate if you "fall in love" as you say, with someone? How about falling in love and not fornicating with them until things actually work out. Otherwise its a free for all. Fall in love and sleep with whoever you want and hope things might or might not work out. If that is allowed, you know how many times a week my good fellow men -myself not excluded- will "fall in love" lol
But I do find it cruel if someone leaves a good marriage because at one point this virgin fell in love with someone and things didn't work out.
But in this case, looks like OP is asking the potential rishtas during the initial meeting if they're virgins. If after marriage, he finds out that she LIED to him....why is it cruel to leave her? After all, if she can lie about this one thing (which is a MAJOR issue for OP).......how does OP know she didn't lie or won't lie about other major issues?
I think what she means is.....if you're so religious, you would be a better, kinder, more forgiving person....being religious should make you stronger and have more patience. When you fail to become those things, and instead are hard-hearted and harsh....all the things you do in the name of religion begin to mean nothing:
prayer = acrobats
Beard = goatee
saving yourself = an excuse.
Virginity, saving yourself etc, doesn't make you a better person if you treat others badly.
i get it. but being religious doesn't mean you stop being human, it doesn't mean not wanting certain traits in a life partner.
Should a "religious girl" (read ba-ikhlaaq, kind, forgiving) be expected to be ok with being lied to? say she wanted a guy with a certain level of education (and a decent income) or wanted to live separately/ wanted to work post marriage, etc and made these demands clear in her rishta hunting process... only to find out post-marriage she was lied to... how should she be expected to react? because she's "religious", she should forgive & forget the lie, suck it up and move on considering her partner is otherwise ok as a husband?
As others have mentioned previously, in general one should cover their past sins. An individual striving to be a better Muslim after making mistakes would be doing the right thing by hiding their past (unless there is legitimate reason to admit to it, i.e. you have children that you are responsible for due to those past mistakes). That lie would not just be (religiously) permissible but preferred to revealing the truth (although it would be even better to avoid lying when hiding the sin). I think the argument is that a religious person would do their best to overlook a spouse’s past mistakes if such as thing came to light. It can be cruel to divorce a person whose mistakes come to light as they might have genuinely been attempting to better themselves as a person. Being divorced is especially difficult as a girl in the desi community, and as previous topics in this forum have shown make it much harder for a girl to marry at all.
Virginity isn’t one of the requirements for marriage for a woman, being able to support your wife is a requirement for the husband though, if I recall correctly. But I definitely understand your point. Feeling hurt about being lied to is very reasonable. Especially when you specified that whatever you were lied about was incredibly important to you. That hurt is valid even if the unmet requirement is unnecessary for a successful marriage. And somebody needs to print out the statement “being religious doesn’t mean you stop being human” on posters in capslock and distribute it to every Pakistani, because I’m so tired of people trying to feel morally superior to a person trying to better themselves because that person dared to be religious and have weaknesses at the same time.
OP, I think it is great you’ve avoided fornication, may Allah SWT reward you for that. I don’t think wanting a virgin is unreasonable if you have are one, whether or not you’ve had “opportunities” to make mistakes. I found the implication that you were a virgin only because you were undesirable unfair and juvenile. I don’t think it is hard to find girls who stay well within the bounds of Islamically proper interactions with men, there are plenty I know. Insha Allah you will find a wife that has qualities you desire. However while you’re entitled to your requirements and weaknesses it would be worthwhile to interrogate them, too.
edit to add:
Agreed with you for the most part except this statement is a bit odd, I don’t see how virginity is more important for women then men and I don’t believe it is the most precious quality for either?
There's nothing irrational in what he desires. I believe if he has secured himself for the sake of Allah and Islam then he should have blind faith on Allah’s verdict. Allah Paak selects our pair the day we are born. Marriages are made in heaven. I am sure Allah will never do injustice with you. He knows Niyat, He knows your deeds. I am sure he will grant you the best out of best.
Keep high trust on Allah. There are surely plenty of girls around who meet your criteria.
Islamicaly, you don't ask people about their past. If you find out, you cover it. However, if being a virgin or anything else for that matter is a condition for marriage that you setup beforehand, and you later find it out it was not true, that is grounds for divorce if the person wants. This applies to any conditions setup before marriage that don't go against the Shariah. For example, if the woman says that you have to stay with me and not leave to another city/country as a condition before getting married and the guy decides to leave to make a living or for any reason, she can (if she wants) ask for divorce for him breaking the prearranged agreement and being away would come under not giving her her rights ( once again I managed to use a word twice "her" without being grammatically incorrect.). That aside, zina is a one of the biggest sins you can manage to commit in Islam. So it is not to be taken lightly. For a woman, it's her most precious quality and should be saved for the one whom Allah has made it halal. But zina is not fornication alone, it's the flirting, being alone with someone, sharing intimate secrets with non-mahram men, singing in front of non-mahram men, wearing perfume so that non-mahram men can smell it, or many other things.
Holy cow, I dont wanna live in this world anymore.Hudd ho gayee yaar!
As Mark Twain said: Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Holy cow, I dont wanna live in this world anymore.Hudd ho gayee yaar!
As Mark Twain said: Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
He is right ahmed, wearing perfume for a girl is not permissible among non mahrams.
Holy cow, I dont wanna live in this world anymore.Hudd ho gayee yaar!
As Mark Twain said: Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Brother fayyaz that's nice quote by mark twain but the problem is quoting mark twain wont make u any less ignorant. There is no "smaet by association" clause in reality. fits u right since ur role model committed suicide and died like a coward and u in ur post say u dont wanna live in this dunya.. so the hands really do fit the gloves..here is a quote from someone who is my role model and he definately didn't die a cowards death like ur mark twain.. I can write a book on mark twain .. so here is the quote from my role model
The prophet(s) said:" Any woman who puts on perfumes and goes pass some*people to smell her perfumes, she is a Zaniah repoted by ahahmed and nasee
Allah's Messenger (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: Every eye is*lustful and when a woman applies perfume and then goes about in an assembly, she is like such and such, i.e. an adulteress. (Mishkat Hadith1065)3. The Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: If a woman applies*perfume, she must not attend the night prayer with us. Ibn Nufayl said:*Isha' means night prayer. (Abu Dawud Hadith4163)*4. Narrator: Abu Hurayra - A woman met him and he found the fragrance of perfume in her. Her clothes were fluttering in the air. He said: O maid-servant of the Almighty, are you coming from the mosque? She replied: Yes. He said: You used perfume? She replied: Yes. He said: I heard my beloved AbulQasim (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) say: The prayer of a woman who uses perfume is not accepted until she returns and takes a bath like that of sexual defilement. (Abu Dawud4162)
argue with that and let me know what mark twain has to say about it
So going by this logic…a man or woman can lie about their past sexual history…even alcohol/drug usage etc. to a potential spouse. And Islam sees nothing wrong with it? And it would be “cruel” to divorce them once it’s discovered that they lied. Wow.
Question: Does this same rational apply to present sins? If a husband cheats on his wife, does Islam encourage him to lie about that too? Is it considered “cruel” for a woman to divorce her husband if she finds out that he cheated on her AND lied about it? Or is the situation somehow different b/c the sin took place after the nikah papers were signed? BTW, this same scenario could happen with a woman sinner too (ie. wife cheating on her husband and lying about it).
And it would be “cruel” to divorce them once it’s discovered that they lied. Wow.