Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
I'll never agree to consider ppl of Karachi as different from other Sindhi ppl. For me ppl of Karachi are as Sindhis as others. Its MQM and its supporters who always play victim card and coined terms like 'interior Sindh' to distinguish ppl from others.
The terms are defined by quota system, would you be okay if people used terms like "rural" Sindh?
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
You are implying as if calling for a province is sin, it is not considered as sin/crime when Seraikis want it, not sin/crime when people of Bhawalpur want it, but as soon as division of Sindh comes up it becomes a crime/sin, why?
Refer my post 39. I don't have issue for division in proper way. What I want to say (you may agree or not), it should be specifically demanded by ppl and not just due to clash between two political parties.
My question is why MQM while in government or during election / other public campaigns oppose division and their leaders say that they are 'Sindh Dharti ke Baitay' and they don't want to divide their ' Mother Sindh'. If they believe that ppl of Sindh will benefit due to division, they should come with a clear statement before public and then let the public decide their own fate.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
The terms are defined by quota system, would you be okay if people used terms like "rural" Sindh?
PPL from other parts of Sindh don't have issue with Rural and Urban Sindh which are the terms used for quota system, but I hate someone saying in Karachi to me that ' R u going to enjoy your summer vacations in Sindh / interior Sindh' bcoz this gives an impression that Karachi is not part of Sindh.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Slowly it seems the break up of Punjab is edging towards inevitability.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
PPL from other parts of Sindh don't have issue with Rural and Urban Sindh which are the terms used for quota system, but I hate someone saying in Karachi to me that ' R u going to enjoy your summer vacations in Sindh / interior Sindh' bcoz this gives an impression that Karachi is not part of Sindh.
Rural Sindh=Interior, Urban Sindh=rest of the province, I don't see how it implies Karachi not being part of Sindh.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
If say Punjab is divided to create 4 new provinces – North (Potohar), Central, South (Seraiki), Bahawalpur, and a Hazara province is carved out of K-P while Sindh and Balochistan are left unaltered, we would then have 8 provinces.
The Senate has to give equal representation to each province. At present Punjab, Sindh, K-P and Balochistan each have ¼ of the Senate seats given to the provinces. With 8 provinces each province would get 1/8 seats instead, hence Sindh & Balochistan would actually lose half their present representation and the 4 ‘Punjab’ provinces combined would double their representation.
PML N would also likely be the ruling party in 3 to 4 of the provinces (Hazara, Potohar, Central Punjab + possibly South Punjab). So if the intention of the PPP/PML Q government is too politically weaken the PML N by carving out new provinces from mainly Punjab, then I believe they haven’t done their homework and it will rebound on them because such moves will actually greatly increase the power of ‘Punjab’ and political representation of the PML N.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
*DIL KAY KHUSH RAKHNAY KO *GHALIB YEH KHIAL ACHHA HAY **
دل کے خوش رکھنے کو *غالب *یہ خیال اچھا ہے
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Rural Sindh=Interior, Urban Sindh=rest of the province, I don't see how it implies Karachi not being part of Sindh.
If Rural = Interior, then why don't hear Interior Punjab for Rural Punjab. BTW, I heard many ppl saying in Karachi to someone 'Are you going to Sindh'. Thats where the sense of Karachi not being part of Sindh arises.
Moreover, generally they count Hyderabad (Urban area) as also Interior Sindh, so for them except for Karachi, remaining sindh (Urban or Rural) is Interior. Period!
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
If Rural = Interior, then why don't hear Interior Punjab for Rural Punjab.
Again, thanks to quota system, no such division of rural/urban is present in case of Punjab, its only for Sindh.
BTW, I heard many ppl saying in Karachi to someone 'Are you going to Sindh'. Thats where the sense of Karachi not being part of Sindh arises.
Moreover, generally they count Hyderabad (Urban area) as also Interior Sindh, so for them except for Karachi, remaining sindh (Urban or Rural) is Interior. Period!
and I haven't heard a single person use that term, so where does that leave this term "going to Sindh"?
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
These discriminatory terms are used by many ppl, you may not come across these, but I have experienced a lot and always raised my voice against this. This issue was even addressed by Speaker Sindh Assembly Nisar Khuhro, who instructed all Assembly Members to refrain from using these terms.
http://archives.dawn.com/archives/48257
Friday, 26 Jun, 2009 | 02:55 AM PST ON June 18 Sindh Assembly Speaker Nisar Ahmed Khuhro commented on the unbridled usage of the terms ‘Interior Sindh’ and ‘Karachi and Sindh’ and gave his ruling in the Sindh Assembly session saying: “These terms are misleading and against the unity of Sindh. Hence these should not be used by any Member of the Sindh Assembly.”
Elaborating his remarks, he told the house: “A person in Lahore does not speak of ‘Interior Punjab’, or the people in Peshawar never say anything such as ‘interior Pakhtoonkhwa’ and the Quetta residents do not use the term ‘interior Balochistan’. So we, the Sindhis, should call areas by their names and not as ‘interior’ etc.”
Sindh was known by various names in the past. In the last 7,000 years poets, intellectuals, folk story tellers of united India use the term “ Hind and Sindfor Sindh and the rest of Indian subcontinent. The name Sindh comes from the Indo-Aryans. In Sanskrit it was called Sindhu, meaning the River Sindh and the people living on its banks.
The Assyrians (as early as the seventh century BC) knew the region as Sinda, the Persians as Hindush, the Greeks as Indos, the Romans as Sindus or Indus, the Chinese as Sintu, while the Arabs and English conquerers called it Sind. The government of Sindh added the letter ‘h’ to ‘Sind in 1995 aimed at correcting its spelling as per its pronounciation
In history, all conquerors and rulers always called the areas by their names. When they thought of moving to Nairoon Kot (Hyderabad), Chandka (Larkana and Kamber), Sewstaan (Sehwan), Khangarhh (Jacobabad), etc., they never used the phrase ‘interior Sindh’, nor did they isolate or separate Karachi and Sindh
I hope that from now on all people, including opinion-makers and lawmakers, would discourage using such terms as would distort history and people’s perception about Sindh.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
^ I recommend that government stop encouraging such things first, abolishing quota system would be first thing IMO.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Slowly it seems the break up of Punjab is edging towards inevitability.
It's not breakup buddy. Remember the ultimate aim and achievement is the well-being of people. Smaller provinces means better management. There isn't any harm in it.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
It's not breakup buddy. Remember the ultimate aim and achievement is the well-being of people. Smaller provinces means better management. There isn't any harm in it.
But in Pakistan it means more People in Govt and More Corruption
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Division is not separsation or 'break up'.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Division is not separsation or 'break up'.
But division that creates boundaries and distances b/w ppl is more harmful than separation.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
At the end of the day, if Punjab is split, I hope my area retains a part of our Punjabi identity by keeping the Punjab as it s name. Perhaps it could be called the province of North Punjab. Saraiki speakers may or may not associate with Punjab, but around my area, Punjabi is who we are and have always been.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
**New federating units: PML-N wants 13 provinces
**
By Abdul Manan
LAHORE: The Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz (PML-N) is expected to support increasing the number of provinces in the country from four to thirteen, an announcement likely to be made by party president Nawaz Sharif on Monday (today) at a meeting of a committee formed to deliberate on the matter.
Sources within the committee told The Express Tribune that the PML-N supported the idea of splitting Punjab into five provinces, Sindh and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa into three and Balochistan into two federating units. The number 13 comes from the number of divisions – a sub-provincial level of government that was made defunct in 2000 – which existed just prior to the adoption of the 1973 constitution. At independence, West Pakistan had six divisions, a number that gradually went up to 13 and kept rising as the population continued to grow. Currently, there are 27 divisions in Pakistan.
**The provinces would be as follows: Punjab would split into Lahore, Multan, Rawalpindi, Sargodha and Bahawalpur. Sindh would be split into Karachi, Hyderabad and Khairpur. Balochistan would be divided into Quetta and Kalat and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa would be divided into Peshawar, Dera Ismail Khan and Malakand.
**The PML-N, however, seems to ignore Gilgit-Baltistan, which was recognised as an agency in the 1973 constitution but seems to have been granted quasi-provincial status by the current administration.
The process of creating new provinces, meanwhile, appears to have been made more complicated by the 8th Amendment to the constitution, which was passed in 1985. Before then, all that was required to create a new province was a parliamentary resolution.
Now, the process requires a constitutional amendment – meaning two-thirds majority in both houses of Parliament – and a resolution with a two-thirds majority in the provincial assembly whose territory is affected by the creation of the new province.
On Saturday, PML-N leader Javed Hashmi had said that he supported dividing Punjab into four provinces and the rest of Pakistan into another 12 provinces. On Sunday, Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif restated his party’s new policy favouring new provinces but opposing creating them along ethnic or linguistic lines.
“If Punjab is going to be divided, then other provinces should also be divided,” said the chief minister.
Yet the plans being put forward by the party are unlikely to win support even from some constituencies that have traditionally supported the party. For instance, the plan seems to ignore the demand for a Hazara province. The Hazara division was created in 1976, after the adoption of the 1973 constitution, and thus would be split between the Malakand and the Peshawar provinces if the PML-N proposal were to be adopted.
Meanwhile, legislators from the Hazara division in the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Assembly failed to garner any support for a separate province. The Hindko-speaking people of the region have been demanding a separate province ever since the ethnically neutral Northwest Frontier Province was renamed to Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa in 2010.
MPAs from the Hazara division told the Daily Express that they were told by their legislative colleagues that supporting the Hazara province was against party policy of virtually all of the major parties in the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Assembly.
The Hazara division legislators had been trying to gather support for a resolution in favour of the province, similar to the one being proposed in the Punjab Assembly for a South Punjab province by members of the Pakistan Muslim League Quaid (PML-Q).
The resolutions in the provincial assembly, however, appear to lack constitutional standing, according to the secretary of the Punjab Assembly, who said last week that the matter must first be debated in the federal legislature.
Members of the PPP, however, have denounced this as an unnecessary complication of what they describe as a simple matter.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
But division that creates boundaries and distances b/w ppl is more harmful than separation.
Can you prove that?
Make many divisions so everone is satisfied.
Boundaries are for administrative work.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Can you prove that?
Make many divisions so everone is satisfied.
Boundaries are for administrative work.
Administrative boundaries are different than those which are created through making decisions without getting approval /consensus from public at large.Our history proves such actions lead to separation.
Re: Call for Dividing Punjab - Making New Provinces
Administrative boundaries are different than those which are created through making decisions without getting approval /consensus from public at large.Our history proves such actions lead to separation.
Not giving administrative autonomy caused separation. Please read the history of Pakistan.
Not sure what you mean by first sentence. Are you for or against public approval? If you support that then further division is justified. (Again, division does not mean separation)