but we have ruined our generations......

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

brother ..i am amazed by your deep insight into the matter and your excellet way of looking at a life...just excellent....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

you are also right but general experience tell us that STP way is generally acceptable to most of the families and bring more happiness as compared to worries..but yes..all ..it varies from person to person... i do agree...

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Well sister, we started talking 3 days before when my mom called me and told me that she has discussed it with my mother in law that as the marriage would take place after 3 months (inshAllah) so it would be better that the two should at least have some communication before that, so the she agreed :D
But I always perform abolution (wazoo) and say bismillah before I start speaking to her so that the devil may not be able to come in between us :)

And you are right that it is something which I think is suitable for me, and I have no right to generalize it for those people who don't want to follow it.

@Dawa_i_dil. I myself am really impressed from your way of thinking as a whole and your attitude towards life (MashAllah). I wish and pray to become a sincere muslim like you one day, who is ready to follow the teachings of the Prophet (saw) in all kinds of situations.

Thanks to both of you for the kind words. May Allah bless you and your family with all the blessings of this life and hereafter.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

i don't think we have ruined our generations.

I know many American or other cultures where people have raised very decent kids. Some of these kids have turned out to be much better people then many of these Desi lafangas i know.

I am not sure if you have been introduced to many desi families where fathers are trying to make money and moms sit home and watch Hritick roshan with Ashwirya rai all day long *grin. Usually kids dont turn out to be too good in these homes either.

Both working parents can definately raise their kids well but they must know how to play their professional life and home life.

I would hate to see any woman wasting her life at home by watching TV or reading stupid digest. I think if they are free they should get themselves involved in Volunteer work.

I dont plan on staying home after shadi. I do want to pursue my own career and have a healthy house life as well :). I see so many people doing it and mashallah they have raised really good kids.

I know this one aunty she has 3 of her own kids and 5 she adopted of her sister in law after she passed away. Uncle and Aunty have raised mashallah great kids.

these is always room to fulfill your dreams all you have to do is move few things around :D

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

^ is there is a enought time left for a mother of 2 or 3 from work to switch on to the Hritick roshan with Ashwirya rai all day long ....... strange enough.....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

........... To Femme Ftatale .......

Sister...I am very sorry of being a bit harsh two days before on deletion of 4 posts...whatsoever its your fault of mine...i do not want to touch it again...as let by gons..e by gones...anyways...it was just a kind of reflex action when posts which took more than 1 hour for me to write vanished....if you felt hurt by my words or behaviour...i am extremely sorry for that....a lot of excuses from me....
I am also sorry because i was not talking to some guy but it was girl..thats more i feel sorry...anyways... i will try my level best that it shall never happen again..again very sorry from me.....i hope you will forgive me.....
Best Regards...
wasalam.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

it is about balance between who we are, and our social norms or roles as well as how we fulfill or even take them.
as you all know, i recently underwent this massive shock of losing someone who i wanted to be with - he only looked at my negatives, he had some too, which i never discussed as openly with him, as he dissected mine for me. because i truly wanted to make a difference in his person, to complete him.
reminders - like ‘rishteye’ are made in heavens, or that
good one, right one, will all of a sudden come along…
are nothing but consolations, for the post decisional regrets of having deliberately letting go someone, who men’s' hearts know, was all there for them, except could not and did not engage in intimate anything.
well, you get ready for it, when you get married nobly, and legally - and then of course the whole family starting and maintaining deal comes in
we are intelligent - most men KNOW it, but rarely they are able to acknowledge that women are intelligent.
it wont hurt us, if out of love,
i see what you are saying - you are addressing the extreme of 'independence' case, but those women who lose their true selves, and nobility, will eventually also realize, what they lost - time, respect - love and trust.
taking care in a safe and nurturing environ is nature of women - it is another thing that some women are also getting or conscientiously denaturing themselves
lesson : each to her / his own.
what one can do - is that when you know that the flow is going the wrong way -
get your own example out of it - for every wrong deed you see around yourself in fellow women . do something that inspires them to RECLAIM their
grace.
no one can take from us, our strengths and thresholds of bearing pains.
recall - what does not break you, makes you stronger.
Allah is watching over everyone of us - even if some happen to be too lost in this world - we know, in a split second, the weak thread of life, may be pulled away from us all.
so, to sort things into personal, social, spiritual, emotional, material, psychological, and ethical grids of life,
each party has to do its job, honestly.
be it women, or men - they cannot become each other
money never gets happiness to anyone
marrying up or marrying down - financially - SHOULD NOT MATTER for either side,

educational or professional difference is an individual preference for many

but it is a confused cycle that has become the reason why so many marriages (the ultimate contract one makes on this earth) with another human being from a liked and loved member of the opposite gender, fall apart cruelly, even before they ake place.

something is totally amiss and someone has to break the cycle.
it will come with its price - the whole spectrum from abusive marriages to the horror stories of heart wrenching divorces.
my bad luck - my mere knowledge of all this - took away from me, someone who i until last night, begged nobly to rethink over what he has done.
but no.
so i gave myself the consolation - that he would have been a doubtful husband, when he would become one... so i must now let it be.
as discussed in my other posts,
no amount of reasoning an logic coming from women, can pinch a nerve in certain classes of men - i am only pointing out the not bad ones, but the weak ones, the sad ones, the worrying-too-much ones, and the ones whose hearts are strained long and hard enough - to have mellowed out. May they find peace.
but then who knows, if the heart calls out so painfully, just why the other side, remains unperturbed?
lose ends are never tied... when they are 'let' loose...
similarly, heart breaks can never ever leave with a peace and resilience to move onwards, because there are huge gaps - between the communicators, discrepancies embedded in their messages, and finally the receiver end and her/ his confusions makes them lose it all.
time will heal...
things will change him and you...
he is probably laughing over all this heart ache he caused, and he will pay for it...
nothing matters to someone like you or me
as we are educated, liberal, balanced women
we neither want to denature men, nor denature ourselves.
i pray to Allah, to make us strong and enable us to keep our feet on the ground and our sense of honesty intact.
Amen.
dushwari

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

And also ver very sorry to PCG...i being a junior member (nauvarid) has no right to fight or quarrel with senior members like PCG or any other...its just because in a debate of some issue...in action and reaction phenomenon..something harsh words come out...also its my habbit to post always in scarcastic or spicy way .....as a nature.. i can change my habbits but not the nature ..so if i hurted anyone's feelings in past or present ...epecially PCG...again i am extremely sorry for that....and i hope PCG will forgive me....
best regards...
wasalam.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

dawa usually these mothers not care.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

good question.

because they are confused, and want to have control.
because they are doubtful, and do not see their double-triple standards
because they know that they can get away by making tall claims and no one will come after them to bring them to justice
because they are hollow and they are weak
because as persons, they think they are Allah, and they need to judge people
because even if they are well-meaning, they must learn not to ABANDON, MERELY BECAUSE THEY ARE SEEING WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE
because people are used to making huge alibis, to justify their own cowardliness
because there is no one really to confide in, in human relations - person to person
because opression, soon becomes the cause for more oppression
because hate is wired into the souls for untrue fears
because sometimes, people are full of deception and are not worthy of true place in others' homes and hearts and minds
because sometimes, people who wrong others, simply take a hike, and run for their own lives, after bringing the sky down on their earlier - 'friend' or lover or fiancés, or a proposed future spouse (oh, bad example!!!)
because dishonest individuals thrive and they thrive on honesty of other honest people
because the mix of values, expectations, societal and faith related are lop sided, LUMPED on women only
because some people have nothing better to do, than to make others their EXPERIENCE through their playfulness
because some people are not able to accurately align their present and future priorities and their baggage from the past
because people lie and believe in lies
because some people are clever in seeing their options ARISE out of some place, and kick away the ones they promised they would want to be with
because it is too much for men to own up to their egos' self-created debasement
because people are losing their own sense of wholeness
because people are afraid of being open and honest
because some women and men like causing sufferings to other women and men,
because they are ignoring that a higher being is watching each and every move of theirs!
because love loses its sanctity.
because the reality is, real love will forgive, even when betrayer will come to its senses
because there will always be hope in the heart, and faith that one does not have to prove to the others who doubt even faithfulness in people, to find a reason to escape
yet, it's only time, though... when people will realize what is wrong with their own selves
& hopefully, they will stop hurting themselves

dushwari

Re: but we have ruined our generations…

her kids are round abt 16-19
and she started working when they were 2-4 :chai:

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Funny how many people know the best way to raise children.

Both my parents worked while raising my brother, my sister and I.

We're all doing fine MashaAllah. In fact, I wouldn't have had it any other way. I learned to be who I am because of that.

No regrets.

But that doesn't matter does it?

Because so many people cannot see outside their experiences. . .

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

^ yeahh.......thats how my cousins are

and plus.......my mum being a single parent.......she still works......and she still has time for us.....doesnt make a difference if ur parents work or not...

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

me posing as a "religious" person... hahahaha .... sister... i am very very "funkar" aadmi...do you think me another taliban type guy...LOL

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

thankyou very much sister for the charge sheet.....i think ..more charges than the General put on Ifthikhar Muhammad Chaudry !!!!!!

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Because you live a busy life with your kids etc, dont think of others being same as you. There are a lot of women with too much time and they spend a good deal of time on phone-calls. My mother owns her own Business and Im shocked when Im there, the constant phonecalls she gets from aunties or young mothers being a daughter thingy to my mum......
Just going to work doesnt mean Im free from laundry, cooking, gorcery shopping or etc. There is no servant in the west, unless you have an au-pair girl living along with you......
And yes, Im afraid of the conditions like in UK, too much of religious classes and keeping kids away from none muslim families. As translater, I come across most "ajeeb" cases, problems in kindergarten and school...... There are lot of families, they like the income/money from the country they live in, but their kids are not allowed to have none muslim friends over etc. Im just trying to share, desi families can be as different as day & night, depending on their skills or perhaps mentality.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Let me summarize:

First paragraph "working woman --> might not be able to give time to her husband when he NEEDS her".

Second paragraph "I never said that a working woman has no sexual desires".

Of course you're saying that you have a problem with working women because you don't think they can satisfy their husbands.

  1. That's not the only part of marriage.

  2. Marriage is a two way street. Each partner has responsibilities to one another.

  3. Whether you work or not is not what affects the bedroom affairs as much as it is the dork you're married to.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Oh yea? heh heh.

Shutup then.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Oh....now I understand where you are coming from. I think may be due to my poor english, I have made a huge mistake of communication.

OR

You didn't pay much attention to what I said just before that statement and just after that statement, which makes it very easy to understand what I actually intended to say.

Let me clear it.

Let us consider once again what I said earlier.

See, I used the term "not able to give time" here, and if you read the whole paragraph it is very clear what I intended to say. She was too busy in her work at the time when he needed her. Ofcourse she also has desires, but as I said earlier, she has more (long lasting) control over her desires than a man.
Your assumption might have been true if my statement were like this:

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Let me correct what I was trying to say, so that you may be better able to understand the words coming out of my mouth.

You think working women don't WANT to make time for sex. Or that they let their fatigue prevent them from making TIME for sex.

That's a gross mistake.

If you think doing housework and raising kids, the TRADITIONAL role you uphold, is any less tiring than having a career, you're wrong. If anything, it can take out just as much if not more out of a woman, being cooped up in a home with household duties and kids to look after.

Working women have EXCELLENT sexual lives. If your experience hasn't shown that to you, then don't let your experience define everyone else's experience.

No need to stamp rules or declare trends where there aren't any just because you're having problems.