but we have ruined our generations......

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Dawa_i_Dil,
Point here is very simple...Men and Women are equal. But historically it was not followed and it is not being followed even today..I say that because majority of men in the world especially in Eastern society are like that. Even educated men behave like beasts.

Tuhmaari shaadi nahin hui isliye tumhe husband-wife relation ka pata nahin..ek ladki doondh lo aur shaadi kar lo..apne aap additional wisdom aa jaayegi...agar kahin aankh matakka ho rakha hai to thodi aur wisdom aa jaayegi. Because then you will learn how to handle uncertainty and tantrums.

Once in this lovely loop, you can easily see for yourself whether what is being argued about treatment to women is right or wrong.

I have seen even in my close relations..these uncles were like tigers on the prowl. There would be a pin drop silence when a head of family entered the home...In my opinion that kind of behaviour rarely leads to congenial atmosphere...well, discipline is needed, but not by coercion, it is only by setting good examples.

lmagine life to be like a bicycle..two equal sized wheels need to run at the same speed and co-exist i.e. remain fit and fine...if one is missing or stops running...there is no movement.

Women are better then men in many respects...e.g. they are very good at multitasking....a quality they have probably acquired from Kitchen management/and home maker's role. And these skills are very valuable in business situation as well. They are not corrupt, they believe in sharing and caring, and are very resourceful. You have always got a warm and sumptuous meal without fail even if shops are closed for days together or a particular spice was not available or gas, kerosene or electricity was not available. That's their quality of being resourceful.

Men on the other hand have a single track mind...many of them lakir ke fakir.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

dawa, u need to relax a bit. While I'm not quite sure about your gender, I do see you frantically posting on topics like this. ALL you need to do is find a husband or a wife who shares the views that you have. When you say "father's role is less" you are so wrong....its the father who earns the living, enables the family to eat food, buy clothing, furnish their living space. In Maslow's heirarchy of needs, its the FATHER who supplies the top, the most important THINGS necessary for life...

Aside from that, you seem to worry overmuch about working wife/stay-home wife.....just find a wife who wants what YOU want. And if you want to go the extra distance and become a "bigger" person, realize that there are "working wives" and "working mothers" who CAN and DO perform ALL of their duties to perfection, just as there are stay-homes who do THEIR jobs to perfection. THere are also bad cases of each. That shouldnt be your concern. Your job is to do and to get for YOUR family what YOU want. And NOT to judge others, yeah? Live and let live....it seems to me that this is what the holy Koran says to do. "Judge not lest you be judged" and all that.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

One more suggestion dawa_i_dil,

Working husband or wife..what is more important is to strike a balance among family life, office life, personal life, community life...you increase focus on one, others suffer.

So far as Maslow's pyramid of heirarchy of needs is concerned, it stems from the old practice...men had to go out hunting while women had to take care of the home/kids...we no longer live in that kind of environement..men and women these days are equally adept in hunting jobs (resources) as well as partners.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

i agree with you..very true you said that...Taleem-o-Tarbiat has a major role of father as in hadees.....the point here we are discussing it that should women having no financial problem and having children at little age should do job...and should it has no conseqeunces on the children ....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

oh thanks for this valuable idea of Aank Matakka ...LOL

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

dawah-i-dil, the first year or two of a child's development is critical. If they've formed pretty good attachements to both their parents, then chances are they'll have healthier social lives, etc. But that doesn't mean that just because a mom is there 24-7, that such attachment would take place. My mother stayed at home with us, but having learned now that she was very miserable my first 3 years of life, it becomes apparent to me that possibly why I've had a social phobia growing up is because I may not have formed these strong bonds early on. And yet, she sat at home.

My father was never home for my first few years of life. He quit his job when I was about 11 or 12, and then got another one that didn't overwork him.

Now, my family set up was VERY much like what you propose is Islamically correct. Dad worked, not highly socially involved with me, but he tried. And mom home at all times.

I can assure you, that if it wasn't for my own intellect and self-counseling and self-cognitive therapy, that I probably would be a basketcase now.

And it really was pretty much my father, who despite the fact he came home at 11 at night, would spend at least 5-10 minutes talking to me, and that he would always intervene when my mom was too harsh on me, and that he would reason with me instead of yelling at me - that I've probably survived the damage.

:)

I don't think stay-at-home moms are necessarily healthy, especially if they're miserable. Like I said - its those first 1-2 years that really matter, and then the kid is off on their own exploring, and attachements with mom aren't nearly as important as exploring the world, etc. That's why you start putting them in play groups and in school.

So, if mom has 1 kid, why should she deny herself a career that she wants, when only really the first few years of the kid's life requires her constant presence?

A happy mom is a better mom. :)

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

yes ... i agree with you...but see again i say...it has nothing to do with religion..our prophet(pbuh) ...loved laughing...jocking and other enjoyments with her wives..like having a race with them ...asking them to tell him some old poetry of arbs and stories etc etc.......so if a man do something as you quoted above...he is not following the sunnah of his prophet(pbuh) .....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

correct but see....by 24/7 ...the child can feel the "lams" of her mother more..learn more from her..see her working...walking throughout the house as compared to the one whose mother come home 6 p.m ...so better attachment will be in the former case....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

this shows your father greatness and his power to deal with his children....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

here i will disagree.....its not necessary that every girl or boty have "ideal" relation with her/his home-staying mother but it does not mean that he/she can explore the world "beeter" with someone else other than her/his own mother...

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

Didn't work in my case.

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

i agree with you...happy mom is a good mom...but "mostly" the mom is happy if she has no tension that after 5 p.m she has to pick up a 28 no. local van...reach home in 45 min. in this rushy area...cook food(as you yourself said in West no servant is easily available) ...look after the children..see thier home-work done...see the husband ..give her time ...etc etc...as compared to the mother at home which is free from all such tensions....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

then this is an "exceptional" case...probalistically and statistically ...not applied to the "majority" ....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

very true ..no boby denies this fact...both have equal responsibilities ... but the point is as rose previously....seperation of tasks make them easy...rather overlapping make things a bit confusing....as there is one GOD in universe and in quran is written if there are more than 1 gods in universe..there must be dispute arise ...so the point is both have equal responsibilities but men outside..women inside..as front wheel first see and handle the bumps in roads...and cycle is twisted by the rider to avoid the rear wheel...both wheels cannot be at front..nether both can be at rear.....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

i agree..women can do multi-tasking...and also quoted above...being naturally kind-hearted and good...they are very helpful...caring etc...but you do not talk about time factor...8 long working hours at office and then at the house...human nature..tender personality.... allso to work at home..cooking food..looking after children's matter..home-work...copies...pencils...school reports...asking husband for a tea... cooking food for dinner... having a time for each other to talk..discuss hundreds of issues of both ..society.... or children...have a time for each other etc etc...sir we have no day of 48 hours !!!!!

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

dawah i dil, not all career moms have that lifestyle. That is so taken up from the typical working-mom role you see depicted in movies!

If someone who's got a career and is tensed from it and would rather stay at home, decided to stay at home, then good for her. She's a happy mom then, and her kids will come out alright.

But not every female is like that, and I dare say that you can't stamp a characteristic on the majority of women.

That's what you one-tracked minded men don't get - women are not all the same. We're varid and very individual. We have our preferences, so could you please leave us to do what we want with our lives, instead of butting in and telling us what the "majority" of us should be like?

And I don't think my case is a minority case - just because it doesn't fit with your theory!!!!

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

oh sorry.. i am a male...actually...it kinds of fight started unfortunately instead of sticking to the topic ...between i and Dushwari...so to break this sequence that we should not go outside the circle... i merely put a statement so that tempo should be lowed and may be someone start discussing this sentence and the fight would be ended ...thats why i just made a rough like statement....
regarding that i fully agreed ...both are equal responsible for the house....i was talking about that inside house..mostly women are all in all...while outside the house..the fathers have a major role to play...

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

now here ..you derailed from the main traffic railway line.....
time and again.. i have said that...exceptions are alwys there...you can see in previous posts...so plz.. do not blame me...

and that again the same argument...who the hell concerning about...mai nai kisi working woman kai sar kai ooper pastol rakh diya hai khia ghar tahro warna...duz....
mam..i am giving my views and comments..according to my little knowledge..anyone can agree..anyone can disagree....its upon individual choice....but you "CANNOT" prevent me from unleashing what my nuerons think....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

oh no sis.. i am never been to movies ...i am telling from the experiece what we see in the average culture of a common house of most Pakistanis....the things we have read in urdu classic literatures...what our dada and nani jaan depicted in thier whole life and spent thier life....what we see in normal Pakistani society....
i am not talking about indian films...as in india ...the no. of working women is far far greater than the Pakistan.....

Re: but we have ruined our generations......

yes..in most of the cases ..there is a tension as ...you cannot extend the 24 hours in which you have a minimum of 8 to 9 hours sleep...with no naps .....
as this is not "ALWAYS" the case that father should come early than her wife to take some of the work upon his shoulders...