the dutch are being hypocritical here. aftre all this is a country where it is perfectly legal to buy a prostitute for the night, smoke weed, walk around almost naked. yet the only problem they seem to have is with burqaz.
lemme say that i don't agree with the talibaan style burqa that covers from head to toe leaving those small holes for the eyes only. i do think however, that women should cover themselves up. and by that i dont mean the tiny head scarf that alot of arabic gals have on top of tight shirts and jeans. i can tell ppl that wot they are doing is wrong in my opionion but i can't make them change their ways caz it doesn't suit my taste.
we are talking about dutch citizens here not some outsiders. if some dutch citizens are allowed to walk around wearing almost nothing then y should the others not have the liberty to cover themselves up if they so wish? and comparing them to pakistan or soudi arabia doesn' prove anything either. western countries showcase themselves as champians of liberty and equality and look down at the said countries for not having the same freedoms that they have.
if they are going to have the same discriminatory laws then at least stop drumming up freedom of this and that.
Chacha ji, its not about covering yourself up. You can do that with moderate conservative clothing, and be perfectly respectable in society. You don't need to wear a shuttle burqa, etc for that. The idea to ban is being brought up for a few reasons, most likely :
lack of understanding between muslim immigrants and Dutch non-muslim nationals.
Stereotype of correlation of burqa with extremism.
Now both of these reasons are the fault of the muslim. The muslim chose not to integrate into Dutch culture, and be open to Dutch culture, and be open and accepting of Dutch culture. You can't teach people about Islam and your way of life if you don't talk much to them.
In order for people to accept you, you must accept them. Muslims all over Europe live in muslim ghettos (doesn't really happen in the US and other countries). They are antisocial. They don't mingle with non-muslims that much. They're not open to Dutch cultural activities (and of course, I'm not talking about smoking weed, so lets not exaggerate here). Etc etc.
I get the feeling sometimes that a lot of Pakistani families living in Eurropean countries are straight from the pind or have extreme pind mentalities.
their country..their rights..all i can say now is..we can pretty much hate the Dutch for what their doing..but face it..they have the power to do it..."
and when in Rome do as the Romans do is pretty much like this
How would one feel if the government forced people to keep short hair? Where does it end?
Stupid dutch
Oh yeh? So you should tell that to Saudis. When women from Western world go to Saudia Arabia they are forced to cover themselves up to comply with the law/customs there even though they are NOT used to it in their counteries. I don't see people criticizing Saudia Arabia. But the minute some Western country does it you immediately bring up the "freedom" angle. Why? Because you expect Western counteries to be "free" and not Saudia Arabia? Hipocracy.
Now, I don't condone Dutch imposing ban on burka clad women. I think if a women is sitting in a park, or a public place as such where she is going about her business then that's her choice, even though I do think burka is a sign of oppression but that's just matter of opinion not imposition.
However, burka should be banned on semi-public places like hospitals, airports, schools etc where a burka-clad woman's presence with other civil citizens hinders the level of professional/personal conduct/interaction/or body language interpretation within the confines of that institute or it imposes a security risk.
Saudi Arabia has never boasted itself to be a “free” nation, unlike the Dutch. A country can’t brag about “freedom” when they alienate and ban clothing worn by a community of people.
So shouldn’t you be MORE concerned with criticizing a country with least or no freedom than a nation who does provide freedom to its citizens as general principle? Or you mean to say they suddenly by proposing this law dutch-land somehow is lost to the dark pit of totalitarianism? May I remind you that at least in Holand they have elected representatives who make laws that reflect the sentiments of whole nation no matter how much sometimes disagreeable they may be.
No, because in a country like Saudi Arabia, you know what to expect, it’s very clear, people are expected to dress a certain way (no revealing clothing). The dutch on the other hand are supposed to be “free” to dress as they please. However, now they seem to be picking and choosing what people should wear, and that for Muslims. I wonder if they’ll ban that same clothing for nuns as well?
Well muslims there in Netherlands are very much mixed up with Dutch people. Moreover they do not live in ghettos. I think you have not visited Netherlands.
The actual thing is that the current government is facing some tough time in forthcoming elections in few days. They are raising this non issue to get some more right votes plus diverting attention of the people from real issues.
And so where are the muslims in all this? Where are the muslim representatives in the government, or are there none, because mose muslims are still struggling to accept the fact that they need to get educated, and that getting married off at 19 doesn't work anymore?
Where are the educated proffessionals of the Netherlands that can stand up and speak up for the population, or are they too chicken? Where are the PR folks in the muslim population that can get on the media and clarify misconceptions about Islam, or is it not just being done enough?
Responsibility is on muslims. If you want respect, you have to give respect, and you have to earn respect. Very few muslims actually try to portray a positive image of Islam, and very few try to help non-muslims understand what Islam is. And the ones that do are usually the over-emotional jaahil ones that no one really can take seriously anyway.
^ someone posted on this thread that this is muslims fault living there. They said this with the premise that muslims have not integrated with the local non-muslim Dutch. Would you consider this to be a true statement?
what's your opinion?
May I remind you that at least in Holand they have elected representatives who make laws that reflect the sentiments of whole nation no matter how much sometimes disagreeable they may be.
so there’s nuthin 2 lose..