Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Maybe this is what these countries are afraid might happen =/
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Thread reminds of other countries are advancing every hour of everyday, discovering and innovating while we, Muslims, are stuck arguing whether to chop hands off or not or have co-education or not in our class
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Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Ghost lets not be intellectually dishonest. I made the claim and I stick by it that science is based on faith as a lot of assumptions are based on a limited knowledge based on our finite understanding of the universe. That applies to everything in science as a good deal of what we knew 10 or 100 years ago has been disproven as wrong or new theories have been come up.
The only hard fact in science is that science is fact until some new discovery and new understanding of our world changes it.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Zafra
No doubt some scientific findings from the past may have been shown to be untrue. (Can you provide some examples? I am not questioning ur statement. I want to know for myself what these incorrect t scientific findings were).
The beauty of Science is it is peer reviewed. False conclusion do not last long. As they are booted out - ur post backs that up - findings from 10 to 100 yrs ago have been overturned.
Scientists challenge each other. And make each other better. The fact that SOME findings from the past have been shown to be incorrect and replaced by newer findings is probably a good case one can make in favor of Science.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
I am no scientist nor do I follow the latest developments in the field. But as an example the information about what Stem Cells can do changes regularly. Information on infectious diseases has changed. Information on HIV/AIDs has advanced since the 1980s. The field is constantly adapting and constantly changing.
As an example from the thread that Ghost mentioned was the Higgs Boson. There were 3 papers originally presented which guessed on how cells have mass. That was in 1964. From 1964 to 2012 there was no concrete evidence that Higgs Boson actually existed. Till then the fact that it existed was based on faith. No real evidence.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
I agree with ur first para. But you see - that’s a good thing. It is not as if information is changing 180 deg. As scientists find new information they do change and modify previous findings. I am not sure most scientific laws have been disproved.
When scientists hypothesize - say abt HB- they do it based on certain laws being obeyed. I don’t know anything abt HG. So I will leave it at that.
Darwin hypothesized existence of a fly or butterfly or something similar with a long tongue in a certain region where the flower had pollen deep inside. 20 years later they found a butterfly with exact long tongue. See his hypothesis was not faith. It was logic.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
oh good grief
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Shariah laws did not come with the clause that they were for a particular era of time. Quaran and quranic laws will remain same and unchanged for all times to come.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
^ Interesting. There is a thread about what outrageous excuse one gave to avoid going to work. Some very religious folks stated the excuses they gave. Now that is admitting to lie. With purpose to avoid work. Which is same as stealing from employer. And stealing is punishable by chopping off hands if I understand correctly?
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/64/77/dc59f2bf4d5da829a3c8d9b8990c7304-loopgif14.gif
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
to be honest, TLK…i’m surprised and saddened at what you said. is that what you really believe in? sorry but very disappointing to hear from you.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Once I asked someone with more profound islamic knowledge why do we hv such a punishment like stoning which seems to be very cruel, they replied that in Islam, one has to go thru this punishment so that wutever they have done, they’ll get the punishment here rather then in the next world where their place would be hell and will go thru the same if they dont get stoned here.
Now being said that, since we all believe in the other world and how Prophet saw it in his trip to Meraj, shouldnt it be implemented as its a part of Islam that we all accepted?
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
Was gayness punished by stoning ?
I thought it was only adultery punished by stoning ?
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
My 2 cents.
Punishment of adultery is very un humane.
But some thing very strange about it, qazi is supposed to suggest the accused to deny charges. So qazi can let him go.
So its almost scare some one who has crossed the line to bring him back to senses.
Also If saw it on ted, there only one activity human can involve in, in which they use all 5 senses, intimacy.
So its almost some one knew how strong that thing can grip people, and how can it spread. So they made a vary scary punishment. With strange clauses in it.
As you have to say “I did not do it” “wasn’t me”
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
And about hand chopping, dont we believe on the hadith when Prophet clearly emphasized that if his dearest daughter Fatima does it, she’ll go thru the same punishment??!!
Unless one has a different belief, How can we reject it now saying times hv changed so that is no more applicable.
I’m a very moderate and openminded myself but i think if there are certain things strictly enforced, we shouldnt change it.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
You know if you think about it, tunda zardai, tunda nawaz, tunda gillani…
not bad at all.
So tell me this. You think that the one who robbed the whole house of someone on gunpoint, and the one who stole few apples from your garden so he can feed his kids - should be given the same punishment of having their hands chopped?
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
If we enforce such punishments we do our image no favors. The time was different, the entire culture was different. That’s not me saying it, that’s just a fact.
Islam also emphasises on forgiveness and love beyond anything else.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
I think the tougher part is always how a punishment is implemented. for example we do hv law in place for criminals to be punished for stealing but its a mess and thats why elite class always get away with it and poor get into trouble and that also seldom.
So that leads to another debate that wut if you’ve the stoning or chopping rules in place and you only implement it on people with no resources while sparing the rest??! Rules are NOT meant to be broken.
Re: Brunei’s ‘stone the gays’ law phased
I’m no one to say this. it’ll depend upon the judge or the qazi or whoever is hearing all the parties involved and cicumstances. Law is in front of us. That should be taken care of properly. If it says we have to do that no matter what then be it. But again only decisive person can make sure that justice is done properly.
Regarding Islam’s emphasis on forgiveness, totally agreed. But again its a simple rule that nobody else other than victim or his immediate can grant forgiveness. And they should be totally convinced (not threatened) to forgive till last min. One example we recently saw from Iran when a murderer was forgiven just last min before execution.
I’m no molvi but think that islam does hv a beautiful system, we just are unable to understand or implement it.