Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
Fair assumption i think. Pakistanis salivate it the thought of Saudis.. The Pak govt and media in particular would never highlight or be overly critical of anything the Saudis do. That a fact. If anything, if it were the Saudis, you would hardly ever hear about it. Its only because America bashing is in the vogue that drones even get mentioned, otherwise, it would be just another bombing...
i bet you didnt even know about the 12 people killed by a bomb in Quetta today...
Saudis are a proud nation just like British or Pakistanis....so please don't be so racist.
No one here is bashing America. It's their foreign policy that everyone is talking about. Go ahead, and criticize the Saudi royal family's policies...no one is stopping you.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
I'm not in anyway condoning America's foreign policy or drone strikes, let's be clear about that. However, I agree with Ghostie & Med911 here.
The "blame Obama/America for everything" argument is getting really old. And this is rampant all over the Muslim world, so I'm not pointing a finger just at Pakistan here, but it's become too easy to blame the "West" for everything.
Pakistan was founded as a safe haven for Muslims, yet how is that working out so far? Muslims are shedding the blood of Muslims right and left on Pakistani soil...radical Islam is spreading like wild fire yet it's protected and enabled...US is condemned for drone strikes yet the government is taken no steps to cut off their own dependency on US Foreign Aid..the same goes for the Middle East..I had this debate with a group of friends awhile back about how incredulous it is that KSA/Jordan/Egypt/Syria are all in the position to end the plight and suffering of Palestine yet they don't do a damn thing...and the answer I got back (from a Pakistani) was "America won't let them". Ahhhh...okay.
LOL.. EVERY Pakistani says the same bs line "America wont let them..." So that exonerates them of any culpability?!?!? Its the best excuse for complacency every where in the Muslim world, AMERICA wont let them, or us do anything to better ourselves, so why try?!?!
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
Britain is a very civilized society in general. More reason for me to not be critical of the Western countries. They seem far more humane as a society, and far more Just then most of the Muslim country I can think off, DESPITE the drone strikes and Guantanamo, that are blemishes but not outright reason to condemn them.
Drones and Gitmo are not supported by most British people....so in any way we can't blame a whole nation for its government's doing.
I humbly disagree about a country being better than other country. Unless you've lived in all the Muslim and non Muslim countries in the world.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
So you're basically belittling the sentiments of Pakistanis and saying they have no credibility because the majority of them don't condemn terrorism.
Okay. I'm just going to go play with my nephew now.
Exactly. when you ONLY condemn America, EXCLUSIVELY, and make excuses for everything happening in your own country, then your credibility is ZERO, ZILCH, NON Existent!
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
LOL.. EVERY Pakistani says the same bs line "America wont let them..." So that exonerates them of any culpability?!?!? Its the best excuse for complacency every where in the Muslim world, AMERICA wont let them, or us do anything to better ourselves, so why try?!?!
Have you spoken to every Pakistani? :) Like literally EVERY Pakistani?
You might want to change your circle of Pakistani people. All the Pakistani I have come to know, all condemn acts of terrorism both domestic and international. So either you're exaggerating enormously, or outright lying.
*
Note to all: If this thread becomes Pakistan centric, it will need to be moved to Pakistan Affairs. So lets try and keep it limited to this incident; not Pakistan or Pakistanis.*
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
Drones and Gitmo are not supported by most British people....so in any way we can't blame a whole nation for its government's doing.
I humbly disagree about a country being better than other country. Unless you've lived in all the Muslim and non Muslim countries in the world.
Most od the Middle Eastern countries that have oil will allow you to work, but will never give you citizenship, unlike the West.
Many of them have laws that openly discriminate against minorities, or ignore violations against minorities etc.
Saudi wont even allow a church to be built in their Kingdom, yet there are more Mosques then can be counted in the UK and the rest of Europe.
With the exception of a few, I dont see any Muslim country that can be considered as generous, inviting and just as the West, which has flung open its doors to people from across the Muslim world.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
I'm not in anyway condoning America's foreign policy or drone strikes, let's be clear about that. However, I agree with Ghostie & Med911 here.
The "blame Obama/America for everything" argument is getting really old. And this is rampant all over the Muslim world, so I'm not pointing a finger just at Pakistan here, but it's become too easy to blame the "West" for everything.
Pakistan was founded as a safe haven for Muslims, yet how is that working out so far? Muslims are shedding the blood of Muslims right and left on Pakistani soil...radical Islam is spreading like wild fire yet it's protected and enabled...US is condemned for drone strikes yet the government is taken no steps to cut off their own dependency on US Foreign Aid..the same goes for the Middle East..I had this debate with a group of friends awhile back about how incredulous it is that KSA/Jordan/Egypt/Syria are all in the position to end the plight and suffering of Palestine yet they don't do a damn thing...and the answer I got back (from a Pakistani) was "America won't let them". Ahhhh...okay.
Although, I don't agree with blaming US policy and government for everything but whatever significant is happening in the world, US is somehow involved.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
Yes i have Teggy. I have spoken to EVERY Pakistani EVERYWHERE in the world.. Took a while, but I managed it..
We are talking in generalities here. If you have been fortunate enough to find Pakistanis with good sense, give them my contact. I unfortunately have only come cross people who are convinced there are “agencies” that are controlling everything in Pak, and America pulls every string. This includes family and friends…
They al condemn such attacks, so your friends arent unique in that regard, but they also refuse to believe the Taliban are the sole perpetrators of such crimes, and they all believe America has something to do with it.
Ask your friends if they believe the Taliban are responsible for such attacks or the US.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
But U.S. does have something to do with it. Why are you ignoring the illegal invasion of Iraq on the pretext of WMDs? You don't think people would take note of that? *It took me a while too, but i literally talked to EVERY American and they all want the troops home because they all believe America has no business being in those parts of the world. *(Generally Speaking! :))
Again, I'm not endorsing the rogue individuals/groups who go around committing acts of terrorism for their supposed "honor". They're certainly dillusional because they're doing nothing but acting like the very people they pretend to oppose.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy of this logic that muslims are the only ones blame-worthy of everything that's happening. That is not the case at all.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
But U.S. does have something to do with it. Why are you ignoring the illegal invasion of Iraq on the pretext of WMDs? You don't think people would take note of that?
Again, I'm not endorsing the rogue individuals/groups who go around committing acts of terrorism for their supposed "honor". They're certainly dillusional because they're doing nothing but acting like the very people they pretend to oppose.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy of this logic that muslims are the only ones blame-worthy of everything that's happening. That is not the case at all.
im saying blame them where its justified, but dont blame the US exclusively. Muslims should take responsibility for themselves.
Thats the mistake many in Pakistan make. They and other Muslims as well, are selective in their condemnation.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
im saying blame them where its justified, but dont blame the US exclusively. Muslims should take responsibility for themselves.
And U.S. should stop inserting the likes of Raymond Davis' on "missions" in countries whose citizens are so negative-minded towards western countries. Why add fuel to the fire? Unless the catalysts are needed to justify extremism so the war machinery can keep at it? Conspiracy? Not so. Ask Halliburton and Cheney Associates.
Lol. Not enjoying going in circles. We've gotten our point across, I hope. This incident is highly condemnable, as are all acts of terrorism including killing of innocent civilians and calling them collateral damage. The after-effects of collateral damage are everlasting.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
Saudis are a proud nation just like British or Pakistanis....so please don't be so racist.
No one here is bashing America. It's their foreign policy that everyone is talking about. Go ahead, and criticize the Saudi royal family's policies...no one is stopping you.
Saudis can be whatever they like, i have no issue with them as a people, although i detest their kingdoms policies and their intrusive nature in other Muslim countries, particularly Pakistan. They point is that when comparing America and Saudis influence in Pakistan, the Saudi influence has done far more harm, yet Pakistanis are in love with the Saudis because the have this romanticized idea of who the Saudis are. America on the other hand is treated with disdain...
Im simply trying to illustrate the point that if the situation were reversed, and the drones were controled by Muslims, in particular the SAUDIS, Pakistanis wouldnt even consider the drones an issue. Drones are only an issue because its American who fly them.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
And U.S. should stop inserting the likes of Raymond Davis' on "missions" in countries whose citizens are so negative-minded towards western countries. Why add fuel to the fire? Unless the catalysts are needed to justify extremism so the war machinery can keep at it? Conspiracy? Not so. Ask Halliburton and Cheney Associates.
Lol. Not enjoying going in circles. We've gotten our point across, I hope. This incident is highly condemnable, as are all acts of terrorism including killing of innocent civilians and calling them collateral damage. The after-effects of collateral damage are everlasting.
Sure lets condemn Raymond DAVIS. But lets also acknowledge the faults of the countries own leadership and the many other failing of Pakistanis themselves. If your not willing to do that, then why even have a debate.
Which was my issue with the guppie who said no, it couldnt have been a Muslim, I refuse to believe it.
But U.S. does have something to do with it. Why are you ignoring the illegal invasion of Iraq on the pretext of WMDs? You don't think people would take note of that?
Again, I'm not endorsing the rogue individuals/groups who go around committing acts of terrorism for their supposed "honor". They're certainly dillusional because they're doing nothing but acting like the very people they pretend to oppose.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy of this logic that muslims are the only ones blame-worthy of everything that's happening. That is not the case at all.
im saying blame them where its justified, but dont blame the US exclusively. Muslims should take responsibility for themselves.
Thats the mistake many in Pakistan make. They and other Muslims as well, are selective in their condemnation.
[/QUOTE]
This. Exactly.
I, as a born and bred American, would LOVE nothing more than for the US to stop policing the rest of the world and concentrate on domestic issues...HOWEVER, as a person who was directly effected by 9/11, every time I hear someone say that the attacks on the twin towers were a Jewish plot/conspiracy to make Muslims look bad while I watch news after news about the Shia genocide that persists in Pakistan, the madness that had engulfed Karachi and the unbearable loadshedding in Punjab while these fat, corrupt politicians feed off of the poor and innocent, it makes me wonder where the blame should really lie.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
No argument there. :k: The muslim “leaders” are in cahoots and only interested in amassing wealth without any concern for the critical happenings whether internally or externally.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
This. Exactly.
I, as a born and bred American, would LOVE nothing more than for the US to stop policing the rest of the world and concentrate on domestic issues...HOWEVER, as a person who was directly effected by 9/11, every time I hear someone say that the attacks on the twin towers were a Jewish plot/conspiracy to make Muslims look bad while I watch news after news about the Shia genocide that persists in Pakistan, the madness that had engulfed Karachi and the unbearable loadshedding in Punjab while these fat, corrupt politicians feed off of the poor and innocent, it makes me wonder where the blame should really lie.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
This. Exactly.
I, as a born and bred American, would LOVE nothing more than for the US to stop policing the rest of the world and concentrate on domestic issues...HOWEVER, as a person who was directly effected by 9/11, every time I hear someone say that the attacks on the twin towers were a Jewish plot/conspiracy to make Muslims look bad while I watch news after news about the Shia genocide that persists in Pakistan, the madness that had engulfed Karachi and the unbearable loadshedding in Punjab while these fat, corrupt politicians feed off of the poor and innocent, it makes me wonder where the blame should really lie.
What has 9/11 got to do with the problems you have listed. Is there a direct link, I dont think so. The direct link between 9/11 is the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan Iraq is still bleeding while US has run from there after creating mayhem and destruction and now is running from Afghanistan after doing the same. That is the comparison between 9/11 and the mayhem which ensued. as an American that is what you should be focusing on.
Re: British Soldier Beheaded in London in busy street
Saudis can be whatever they like, i have no issue with them as a people, although i detest their kingdoms policies and their intrusive nature in other Muslim countries, particularly Pakistan. They point is that when comparing America and Saudis influence in Pakistan, the Saudi influence has done far more harm, yet Pakistanis are in love with the Saudis because the have this romanticized idea of who the Saudis are. America on the other hand is treated with disdain...
Im simply trying to illustrate the point that if the situation were reversed, and the drones were controled by Muslims, in particular the SAUDIS, Pakistanis wouldnt even consider the drones an issue. Drones are only an issue because its American who fly them.
Oh well...I guess anything can happen in make-believe world.
