Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
I, for one, am not handing over free food to some fat ass balochi sardar. If you want then that is your perogative.
If it is about education etc. in **free **balochi areas then that can be discussed.
Dont hand over anything to anyone... But they will have to hand somthing to someone, because whether we like it or not, Balochis are pissed, and they arent blaming the Sardars (Sardars are sardars after all) but the govt. Its the job of the govt, which has all the powers at its disposal to meet the needs of these people..
Perhaps a good place to start would be to allow fair and free elections in Balochistan... Then allow the Balochi govt greater autonomy and greater say in how their provinces resources are used and by whom... The bottom line seems to be that the Balochi have no stake in their own country.
Re: British police arrest “Baloch Liberation Army” terrorists
That is the same story of mahajirs but GOD FORBID if they raise this issue. They are supposed to be putlas and/or some sort of martyrs for the rest of Pakistan.
PS If BLA is a solution, then do you also believe in mukti bahini and even india after all they had legitimate grievances [bengalis not allowed to govern while india was “hand pressed” with refugees].
I wonder why didn’t punjabis like you saw that in 1971?
Re: British police arrest “Baloch Liberation Army” terrorists
Yaar, you know aswell as I do that Mohajirs as a population, not talking about individuals, but as a group, were ALWAYS well educated and well to do…
The were urbanized, and progressive… That is why when they settled in Karachi, they quickly found themselves the leaders of the bussines community…
That is why the Mohajirs themselves say the cpital was moved and economy nationalized…
To undermine the Mohajirs grasp on bussines…
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
That is the same story of mahajirs but GOD FORBID if they raise this issue. They are supposed to be putlas and/or some sort of martyrs for the rest of Pakistan.
Its all speculation buddy, how much the Mohajirs "suffer" is relative...
Your complaint is that the Punjabis or whover this secret group is, is undermining your controlo of bussines, and depriving your bank account of large denominations...
The Baloch complain that they cant find education, cant feed their families, cant get out of the cycle of pverty while the resources of their provinces make people in Islamabad and even those in Karach rich. Its robbery plain and simple.
Bottom line is that despite it all, the Balochis are truly the ones living in poverty while the Mohajirs control a city, there is no denying that Karachi belongs to Mohajirs... And also the province to some extent.
And I dont think the methods of the BLA are justified (blowing up gas pipelines etc..) but what else are they to do? They cant vote in govt that supports them, they cant protest, any leaders that speak up for them are killed... Whats left for these people to do but to start picking up weapons?
If your enemy wont listen to reason, whats left?
You tell me... There is no democracy, they might have relied on the independant courts but musharaf has wiped out that possibility.. So what left in a country where you have no voice?
And I think the Bangalis were right in wanting independance aswell... Any country that treats her citizens like cattle deserves whats happened to Pak.
The day Mohajirs have to face the same level of discrimination then yu can ask for independance aswell... But so far, you have given us nothing but "we cant run our bussines" (although you also say you control all bussines... Make up your mind, if Mohajirs are so mistreared as you claim, then how are they supporting Pakistani bussines as you also claim?!??)
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
Oh bhai, pathans are poor too but they have initiative there. You still have to back off from your point that it is ok to start militancy if you believe your rights are being violated in Pakistan. If you don't, then support MQM in that too..
You are sounding more like our immi bhai everyday. On one hand, he wants to take down MQM tullas but, on the other hand, he sits cozy with taliban masters in MMA!
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
[quote]
Its all speculation buddy, how much the Mohajirs "suffer" is relative...
[/quote]
Your problem seems to be that you don't want to admit that a lot of wrong has happened against mahajirs. How does that make you different even if you are an educated punjabi?
Frankly, there should have been no mahajir term but the way things are in Pakistan, there is no real Pakistaniyat in the whole country.
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
Oh bhai, pathans are poor too but they have initiative there. You still have to back off from your point that it is ok to start militancy if you believe your rights are being violated in Pakistan. If you don't, then support MQM in that too..
You are sounding more like our immi bhai everyday. On one hand, he wants to take down MQM tullas but, on the other hand, he sits cozy with taliban masters in MMA!
Pathans are also among the poorest in the province.. Just look at where most of the development over the last some years has occured and you will see.. But the make up of their society is also very different... Perhaps its the Sardari system, but again, its the job of the govt to weaken the hold of those sardars... One of the reason many analysts feel the Sardari system has flourished is due to the lack of democracy... Allowing Balochis the right to democracy might have allowed some of these people to rise above their sardar masters and change things. But the govt has always supported these Sardars...
Perhaps it is up to the Baloch to take the initiative, the govt has finally brought some deveopments, and the govt will have to make usre that it benefits the Baloch people foremost... But after 50 years of broken promises, do you honetly think the Baloch will trust the govt? The govt still hasnt allowed ANY kind of compramise on the real demands of these people and that being greater rights to their provinces own resources...
The MQM, again, your comparing fine steak to two day old bread...
I will support the MQM when they have genuine greivances.. But by your own addmision, you are the backbone of Pakistani bussines and some of the most upwardly mobile and well of people in the country...
Come back when you have a genuine complaint and then we will talk.
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
Your problem seems to be that you don't want to admit that a lot of wrong has happened against mahajirs. How does that make you different even if you are an educated punjabi?
Frankly, there should have been no mahajir term but the way things are in Pakistan, there is no real Pakistaniyat in the whole country.
Well, I will admit that Nationalization was wrong and trying to undermine the power base of Mohajirs was wrong... Im sorry if I dont consider such greivances on par with those of Balochistan... There are degree's here, and the degree of problems faced by ohajirs, a group, again, by your own admission is very well of, just doesnt compare to the degree of the problems being suffered by the Balochi...
Its like Bill Gates saying we should consder his problems on the same level of some poor single mother living in the inner city ghetto...
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
^ People live in areas like slums in karachi so I don't even where bill gates came from?
Democracy was there in the nineties and the seventies [bhutto era was the strongest since army was 'weak'] but what did it achieve back then vs. feudalism?
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
^ People live in areas like slums in karachi so I don't even where bill gates came from?
Democracy was there in the nineties and the seventies [bhutto era was the strongest since army was 'weak'] but what did it achieve back then vs. feudalism?
Im talking about Mohajirs the community, not Mohajirs the individuals... As a group, you said they are the backbone of Pakistani bussines and without them we are lost... That must mean they as a group are rather well of to be able to run the bussiness of an entire country!
Your words, not mine.
If your community is truly that influential in the world of bussines, then what are you complaining about?
Democracy was not there in the 90's... And Bhutto was wrong in Nationlizing private enterprise...
But comparing the probs of your community with the Baloch is literally like comparing the problems of Wealthy individual with that of a bottom of the ladder poverty stricken individual.
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
It is not my fault that the bhugti didnt decide to make his tribe self-aware so they are better prepared for things in Pakistan. The point was about discrimination and mahajirs face it. Only now, we have started to get some progress that has been due but I fear all that will be lost when gunja or bb comes to power again.
I, for one, wouldn't sponsor a sardari-run outfit BLA [run by a feudal marri] when the same feudals are part of the problem. You , in your anti-musharrafism, "overlook" this fact!!!
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
It is not my fault that the bhugti didnt decide to make his tribe self-aware so they are better prepared for things in Pakistan. The point was about discrimination and mahajirs face it. Only now, we have started to get some progress that has been due but I fear all that will be lost when gunja or bb comes to power again.
I, for one, wouldn't sponsor a sardari-run outfit BLA [run by a feudal marri] when the same feudals are part of the problem. You , in your anti-musharrafism, "overlook" this fact!!!
Well, it isnt your fault but it is the fault of the govt for not reigning in these sardars...
And we as Pakistanis should, collectively be ashamed of ourselves for the state of those people...
We cant blame them for expecting different in Pakistan, perhaps they were seeing stars like all the rest of us..
I didnt say Mohajirs didnt face discrimination... But just to remind you, you tried to undermine the legitimate problems of the Baloch by citing the Mohajirs and saying if we dont protest why should they...
My intention was to simply point out that you cant compare the two groups as the problems suffered by the Baloch far outweigh the Mohajirs.. Thats all...
You cant draw any comarison between the two as Mohajirs have far more control and a far better of despite the supposed disrimination.
And in the end, if you feel the discrimination is so great that you can no longer take it, then by all means, demand your independance... But whether you will convince me or others that the suffering of Mohajirs can justify wanting independance or is even remotely close to the probs faced by Balochis, remains to be seen... So far im not convinced that the problems facied by Mohajirs hare anywhere near as daunting as those faced by the Baloch.
Progress in the long run can only come through a stable democracy that has strong instituiotn.. Musharaf is actively destroying those institutions... That is the real threat. Musharaf can put a band aid over the prob now, but what about when he is dead? If the system is based on the rule of a single man, who is to take his place later on?
A democracy has its own dynamics... BB and Nawaz are harmless if you have a strong executive, legislative and judiciary in place... Democratic institutions work to check each others powers..
The economy not may not grow, but we will have stability, which is the hallmark of long term growth...
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
Indian Democracy saw all kinds of incompetance just like BB and Nawaz, but they stuck to democracy and it provided them with the stability they need for the growth they are witnessing today...
Pakistan never has political stabilty, so that is why we have growth spurts but no long term growth.
Im afraid that as soon as Musharaf is gone, because he didnt strengthen democratic instituions, the country will once again go through the same cycles.
Re: British police arrest “Baloch Liberation Army” terrorists
The 90’s wasnt really democracy first of all.. The Army was still behind the scenes. Also, we didnt have any of those Hallmarks that I spoke of…
We need an independant judiciary for one and independant media…
We need a stong civil society…
In the end, a dysfunctional democracy is still perfered over a functional dictatorship…
There is no choice but democracy, even flawed democracy.. It must be allowed to evolve free of Military involvement, and it has to be allowed to see itself through no matter what.
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
India didn't sideline its patriotic leaders like pakistan did. Pakistan's democratic future was basically sealed when justice muneer of lahore HC justifed Ayub and mirza's actions and didn't allow the constitution to work and 1959 elections to happen! The only crime of those civies was that many of them were bengalis or mahajirs etc. who didn't CLICK well in they eyes of our so-called martial race [a british honor] army.
This is why i support name change for NWFP and repealing FCR etc. We need to get out of this british slave mentality [now the master has shifted to the US].
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
India didn't sideline its patriotic leaders like pakistan did. Pakistan's democratic future was basically sealed when justice muneer of lahore HC justifed Ayub and mirza's actions and didn't allow the constitution to work and 1959 elections to happen! The only crime of those civies was that many of them were bengalis or mahajirs etc. who didn't CLICK well in they eyes of our martial race army.
This is why i support name change for NWFP and repealing FCR etc. We need to get out of this british slave mentality [now the master has shifted to the US].
Well, arent you glad then that we have people like Justice Iftikhar Chaudry, and the Lawyers?!?
He stood up to this dictator and the Lawyers protested until he was reinstated...
And you can understand why im so upset over Musharaf and what he has done since he has strengthened the hold of the army, undermined the constitution, and destroyed any chance of any sort of justice and democracy for Pakistan...
We might have come out of that slave mentality, but Musharaf is to be blamed for destroying whatever chance we had of getting rid of that mentality...
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
I have skeptical support for him since the alternatives are worse than him. I think he should leave and let pakistanis destroy themselves by democratically voting in BB and PML but then that is just my opinion :)
PS I don't want my karachi to burn too so i am still against such democractic instability that people want to bring. Imran usually has nice points but his chitrol by jamatis still hasn't fixed his brain. I don't see anything else that is different besides him: same players, same parties :D
Re: British police arrest "Baloch Liberation Army" terrorists
I have skeptical support for him since the alternatives are worse than him. I think he should leave and let pakistanis destroy themselves by democratically voting in BB and PML but then that is just my opinion :)
PS I don't want my karachi to burn too so i am still against such democractic instability that people want to bring. Imran usually has nice points but his chitrol by jamatis still hasn't fixed his brain. I don't see anything else that is different besides him: same players, same parties :D
Well, democracy brings stability... Its proven.
BB or Nwaz is irrelevant at this point... They counldnt possibly make the country that much worse then it is... What important is democracy...
Pakistanis have to gather the courage to fight for democracy despite those that will lead them in it...
What the alternative? Musharaf has turned the country into a basket case, we have no respect anywhere in the world...
