Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

[teggy]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

First of all:

Reality check

1. It is not going to happen, that you will be allowed to carry a loaded weapon into a place that's supposed to be educational

2. Having a gun is NOT going to make you any safer or the number of police officers that are shot would not be dead (and we all agree cops know how to use their guns)

3. Every Joe around the corner should not have a gun just because he feels it's necessary for his protection. I'm afraid that includes you as well my bro.

4. All reports suggest, gun crimes have gone up because of the rampant sale of Arms, not because the law are stricter.

5. You keep bringing Japan and USA example up...when that's irrelevant to the topic at hand, so please stick to the topic instead.

6. This wasn't someone's house that these previous shootings have taken place. This has happened in public facilities.

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@AnGeL_EyEs

so where are you planning on keeping this gun? under your pillow? next to u in the night stand? because these are the only places where it will be readily available to you. what if you kids get a hold of it.....too many stats on kids taking guns to school and/or accidentally shooting people . Guns are meant to be locked up....that's what they tell you. If you have it locked up what good will it do?

Well, shouldn't it be a concealed weapon... re; concealed weapons permit? Kids taking your gun is a SAFETY issue not criminal... you buy a gun, you own a gun, you better be responsible for it and keep it in a safe place. X2 also posted these stats, they are horrible but they do not address the cause of the issue nor to do they help the anti-gun folks argument that making guns hard to get will make places safer because criminals will get their guns while masses are left to run and crawl under desks.

I don't understand what is the problem with self defense when you are faced with such situation?

[Ali_R]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Jaan Leva

Strict gun laws only make it harder for people like you and me to own an arm for OUR PROTECTION not shoot up people. Of course, you and me would first acquire a license to own a firearm and not just go into pawn shops or black market to get a gun because that would be illegal and only a criminal would do that.

If that guy knew that his college campus allows people/students/faculty to carry guns and concealed firearms, would he have gone up there to shoot people? I don't think so.

Jaan Leva, these are kids, students which enter the very next store and buy off a gun on sale. It's like buying a pack of milk.
How can you then not be convinced such laws need to be strict enough so you avoid students to buy guns like buying bread and butter for the daily consumption!

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

Apparently, you and others have been ignoring the logical questions that I asked since page 1 of this post… so I will address yours now, maybe that will give you a reason to address my questions? Sarcasm aside… my replies in bold

@teggy

First of all:

Reality check

1. It is not going to happen, that you will be allowed to carry a loaded weapon into a place that’s supposed to be educational

Well, so far all shootings have been at unis and high schools… so, people DID carry a loaded weapon into an educational place where they KNEW people would be UNARMED!!!

2. Having a gun is NOT going to make you any safer or the number of police officers that are shot would not be dead (and we all agree cops know how to use their guns)

Having a gun does make you safer, when someone shoots at you, you can shoot back! SELF defense, damn it. When someone shoots at your study hall, you can protect your self… when someone enters your home with a gun, you can protect yourself and your family unless you are not of that kind that likes to protect his/her family then its a different story.

3. Every Joe around the corner should not have a gun just because he feels it’s necessary for his protection. I’m afraid that includes you as well my bro.

No body is saying every joe and tom should have a gun… that is not the point.

4. All reports suggest, gun crimes have gone up because of the rampant sale of Arms, not because the law are stricter.

** What reports? This? 300% increase in gun homicides?**

5. You keep bringing Japan and USA example up…when that’s irrelevant to the topic at hand, so please stick to the topic instead.
   **
   No it is not. It follow the same principle as this gun issue does. If you KNOW someone has a gun, would you go into their place to shoot up or rob them? No you would not man, at least be true to your self. If US knew Japan had a atom bomb as well, they would not have dropped two… thats the point.**

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Ali_R

Jaan Leva, these are kids, students which enter the very next store and buy off a gun on sale. It's like buying a pack of milk. How can you then not be convinced such laws need to be strict enough so you avoid students to buy guns like buying bread and butter for the daily consumption!

Ali, but gun laws are not working as we've seen. The shootings are increasing and no body at these previous shootings shot back at the shooter because they did not have anything to protect themselves with.

We got lucky in this case because the criminal shot himself... what if he had pulled a VA Tech type tactic on the students and faculty? A lot of people would have died and no body would have shot back, no body would have a gun to shoot back. Why do you think VA tech guy went from dorm to dorm and then building to building looking for people to shoot? He knew, no body has anything to shoot back with... until the police arrived, until government arrived to rescue the sheep!

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Jaan Leva

If someone is SHOOTING at you, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SHOOT IN THEIR LEGS OR ARMS? YOU SHOOT TO KILL if someone is shooting at you. That is self defense and perfectly legal *motion *as far as law is concerned.

If you own a gun, you probably know how to use it. If you don't want to own a gun, you don't have to but lets not make it harder for others to take care of things when criminals decide to shoot up a study / lecture hall or library or high school cafeteria.

shoot to kill? only trigger happy people think this way. Jaan Leva if you were so well trained in shooting...why the need to "shoot to kill" even cops dont do that...they try their best to aim for the legs/arms etc.

@Jaan Leva

Well, shouldn't it be a concealed weapon... re; concealed weapons permit? Kids taking your gun is a SAFETY issue not criminal... you buy a gun, you own a gun, you better be responsible for it and keep it in a safe place. X2 also posted these stats, they are horrible but they do not address the cause of the issue nor to do they help the anti-gun folks argument that making guns hard to get will make places safer because criminals will get their guns while masses are left to run and crawl under desks.

I don't understand what is the problem with self defense when you are faced with such situation?

and how would u conceal this weapon when you are in the home? :)

there is no problem with self defense...it's when you allow any joe shmoe to purchase a gun that causes a problem. AND believe me when i tell you...it's easy for a person to purchase a LEGAL gun..it's not as difficult as u think it is. besides who is to guarantee that a sane person who purchased a gun wont become trigger happy?

[teggy]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

Well, so far all shootings have been at unis and high schools… so, people DID carry a loaded weapon into an educational place where they KNEW people would be UNARMED!!! :D**

Like i said because it is not EXPECTED that a person would bring a WEAPON to a place of education.
**

Having a gun does make you safer, when someone shoots at you, you can shoot back! SELF defense, damn it. When someone shoots at your study hall, you can protect your self… when someone enters your home with a gun, you can protect yourself and your family unless you are not of that kind that likes to protect his/her family then its a different story.

Like i said earlier, stricter rules, more checks to ensure no one just walks in with a gun. Every pocket full of clips is not the solution. The events that happened took place in public or a public place. It wasn’t a home invasion.

What reports? This? 300% increase in gun homicides?
** or THIS**

No it is not. It follow the same principle as this gun issue does. If you KNOW someone has a gun, would you go into their place to shoot up or rob them? No you would not man, at least be true to your self. If US knew Japan had a atom bomb as well, they would not have dropped two… thats the point.

World politics are not parallel with domestic politics.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Jaan Leva

Ali, but gun laws are not working as we've seen. The shootings are increasing and no body at these previous shootings shot back at the shooter because they did not have anything to protect themselves with.

We got lucky in this case because the criminal shot himself... what if he had pulled a VA Tech type tactic on the students and faculty? A lot of people would have died and no body would have shot back, no body would have a gun to shoot back. Why do you think VA tech guy went from dorm to dorm and then building to building looking for people to shoot? He knew, no body has anything to shoot back with... until the police arrived, until government arrived to rescue the sheep!

Shootings are increasing because the current gun laws arent strict enough!! once they pass a law similar to those in the Uk, japan etc....you will see a significant decline in gun related violence.

If you want to defend yourself...be a man!!....use your hands or a sword (like they did back in the day :D ). Anyone can aim a gun and shoot (doesnt mean they will aim properly)....having a gun and using it doesnt make you a bigger man.

can you imagine what it would be like if everyone pulled out their guns and started aiming at the shooter? chaos!!

I wouldnt feel comfortable having a gun in my own home.....and i would certainly be paranoid walking down the street knowing every other person may have gun on them.

[Ali_R]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

Leva, question #1 where did he get the gun from?
Your argument doesnt make lots of sense...no one carries a gun into a building of a faculty or institute. I hardly believe you have a law stating every Student should be carrying hand guns (at least) to protect him/herself. So Its pretty logical that there was no resistance.
Nevertheless guns laws needs to be modified since years now, but Bush and Co havent made any adjustment.
Question #2 Why would Cowboy Bush restrict the nation of buying weapons when he deals with them abroad?
Only strict laws can make It impossible for such people to obtain weaponry and utilize them on their owns.
HOwever I dont see this happening until some President with brains occupies the seat of the States thrown.

My 2 cents.

[teggy]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

The latest on the killer and the incident

DEKALB, Ill. - The gunman who killed six people in a Northern Illinois University lecture hall before committing suicide was identified Friday as a 27-year-old former student.The gunman is Steven Kazmierczak, police officials said at a news conference on the university campus.
Polk County, Florida, sheriff’s officials said they were asked to speak with “the father of the shooting suspect,” Robert Kazmierczak of Lakeland, Florida.
The motive of the killer, who graduated from Northern Illinois in 2006, was still not known as the investigation unfolded Friday, officials said. The gunman also wounded 15 people in Thursday’s attack, which sent panicked students fleeing for the exits.
“There is no note or threat that I know of,” Northern Illinois President John Peters said on Friday ABC’s “Good Morning America.”** “By all accounts that we can tell right now (he) was a very good student that the professors thought well of.”**
The shooting was the latest in a spate of attacks in U.S. schools and universities, and was reminiscent of the Virginia Tech massacre last April when a South Korean student killed 32 people before fatally shooting himself in a rampage that became the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567?GT1=10856

Notice his age. And the trend follows…it’s not senior citizens or the grown ups for that matter…

Thanks

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@AnGeL_EyEs

Shootings are increasing because the current gun laws arent strict enough!! once they pass a law similar to those in the Uk, japan etc....you will see a significant decline in gun related violence.

If you want to defend yourself...be a man!!....use your hands or a sword (like they did back in the day :D ). Anyone can aim a gun and shoot (doesnt mean they will aim properly)....having a gun and using it doesnt make you a bigger man.

can you imagine what it would be like if everyone pulled out their guns and started aiming at the shooter? chaos!!

I wouldnt feel comfortable having a gun in my own home.....and i would certainly be paranoid walking down the street knowing every other person may have gun on them.

My Dear AE,

Not everyone will own a gun...would you if you could? No. Out of 25 people, 2 might have a gun and those two can save lives of 100s of others in 10 20 minutes that it would take the police to come take care of things!

@AnGeL_EyEs

shoot to kill? only trigger happy people think this way. Jaan Leva if you were so well trained in shooting...why the need to "shoot to kill" even cops dont do that...they try their best to aim for the legs/arms etc.

and how would u conceal this weapon when you are in the home? :)

there is no problem with self defense...it's when you allow any joe shmoe to purchase a gun that causes a problem. AND believe me when i tell you...it's easy for a person to purchase a LEGAL gun..it's not as difficult as u think it is. besides who is to guarantee that a sane person who purchased a gun wont become trigger happy?

Picture this:

Some thug, low life is shooting at you, your friends, your family and his purpose is to KILL YOU and all you would do if you had a gun is to shoot in his arm or leg? You know what that would do? HE will be back on street after serving time, danger to the society.

Not to mention the burden on tax payer... to keep such SOBs in prison and the due process that comes along with such incidents. You are an upcoming lawyer, these arguments are very weak to win a case for a criminal. :D

[Monk]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@X2

we need better gun control laws psychotic nerds need not have access to these things.

We need a smarter amreekan system.
We need to make sure all those psychos are no universities, the need to be in counties like iraq.
Where they can kill people with out being held accountable for it,
There they can protect amreekan way of life.

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Ali_R

Leva, question #1 where did he get the gun from? Your argument doesnt make lots of sense...no one carries a gun into a building of a faculty or institute. I hardly believe you have a law stating every Student should be carrying hand guns (at least) to protect him/herself. So Its pretty logical that there was no resistance. Nevertheless guns laws needs to be modified since years now, but Bush and Co havent made any adjustment. Question #2 Why would Cowboy Bush restrict the nation of buying weapons when he deals with them abroad? Only strict laws can make It impossible for such people to obtain weaponry and utilize them on their owns. HOwever I dont see this happening until some President with brains occupies the seat of the States thrown.

My 2 cents.

Since gun laws are already strict, where could he get it?

Who said "every student" should carry a gun? Allow people to carry concealed weapons with concealed weapons permit to carry a gun... those who wish to should be able to, those who are not comfortable with guns do not have to.

Strict laws will not prevent criminals from getting guns, period. Cracking down will only do what cracking down on drugs does... its like water in a baloon, you push one end, it comes out the other. It doesn't work.

Teggy,

No soup for you until you address these, everyone who feels guns should be banned and more strict laws should be introduced, answer:

1. *Would you go into someone's home when you knew that owner has a gun? *I don't think so.
2. Would you go to a public place where you knew that people may have concealed weapons?* I don't think so.* ]Would you rather have a gun in this situation or would you run for you life, crawl under a desk or hide behind doors and get shot at in your back?* I wouldn't want that.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Jaan Leva

My Dear AE,

Not everyone will own a gun…would you if you could? No. Out of 25 people, 2 might have a gun and those two can save lives of 100s of others in 10 20 minutes that it would take the police to come take care of things!

Picture this:

Some thug, low life is shooting at you, your friends, your family and his purpose is to KILL YOU and all you would do if you had a gun is to shoot in his arm or leg? You know what that would do? HE will be back on street after serving time, danger to the society.

Not to mention the burden on tax payer… to keep such SOBs in prison and the due process that comes along with such incidents. You are an upcoming lawyer, these arguments are very weak to win a case for a criminal.

im not a criminal lawyer

i have to get to class now…but just wanted to say…ur arguments dont make any sense

[Ali_R]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@teggy

The latest on the killer and the incident

DEKALB, Ill. - The gunman who killed six people in a Northern Illinois University lecture hall before committing suicide was identified Friday as a 27-year-old former student.The gunman is Steven Kazmierczak, police officials said at a news conference on the university campus.
Polk County, Florida, sheriff’s officials said they were asked to speak with “the father of the shooting suspect,” Robert Kazmierczak of Lakeland, Florida.
The motive of the killer, who graduated from Northern Illinois in 2006, was still not known as the investigation unfolded Friday, officials said. The gunman also wounded 15 people in Thursday’s attack, which sent panicked students fleeing for the exits.
“There is no note or threat that I know of,” Northern Illinois President John Peters said on Friday ABC’s “Good Morning America.”** “By all accounts that we can tell right now (he) was a very good student that the professors thought well of.”**
The shooting was the latest in a spate of attacks in U.S. schools and universities, and was reminiscent of the Virginia Tech massacre last April when a South Korean student killed 32 people before fatally shooting himself in a rampage that became the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567?GT1=10856

Notice his age. And the trend follows…it’s not senior citizens or the grown ups for that matter…

Thanks

Type of gun? Background? Where he got the gun from? ANy threats being issued by him before entering the massacres stage?

[teggy]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Jaan Leva

Since gun laws are already strict, where could he get it?

Who said "every student" should carry a gun? Allow people to carry concealed weapons with concealed weapons permit to carry a gun... those who wish to should be able to, those who are not comfortable with guns do not have to.

Strict laws will not prevent criminals from getting guns, period. Cracking down will only do what cracking down on drugs does... its like water in a baloon, you push one end, it comes out the other. It doesn't work.

Teggy,

No soup for you until you address these, everyone who feels guns should be banned and more strict laws should be introduced, answer:

1. *Would you go into someone's home when you knew that owner has a gun? *I don't think so.
2. Would you go to a public place where you knew that people may have concealed weapons?* I don't think so.*
3. Would you rather have a gun in this situation or would you run for you life, crawl under a desk or hide behind doors and get shot at in your back? I wouldn't want that.

lol i'm not really hungry but i'll answer them for u.

1. i don't go into others houses w/out calling first. that's the norm. maybe people u know walk right in.

2. which is why gun laws need to be stricter so only the true enforcer of the law (COPS) would have them and i would feel easier knowing i'm safe.

3. Me having a gun does NOT make me safe automatically. There's more to it than just having a gun.

[teggy]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@Ali_R

Type of gun? Background? Where he got the gun from? ANy threats being issued by him before entering the massacres stage?

I'm sure we'll find out more later...it's only the 2nd day so this is what they've released so far...

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@AnGeL_EyEs

im not a criminal lawyer

i have to get to class now…but just wanted to say…ur arguments dont make any sense

haha, okay.

Well, let me give you a bigger example:

India is shooting at pakistani army, India is attacking Pakistan… what you are saying is that Pakistan should not attack back, should not shoot back. Only shoot in the dirt?

That is just wimpy, sorry. When someone shoots at you to kill you, you shoot back and make sure that person shooting at you to kill you is dead. Shooting in his arm or leg will only piss him off and he can still shoot so what did you accomplish by shooting in the leg? He will still be alive and back on the street after a short while in prison which YOUR MONEY WILL PAY FOR!

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

@teggy

lol i'm not really hungry but i'll answer them for u.

1. i don't go into others houses w/out calling first. that's the norm. maybe people u know walk right in.

2. which is why gun laws need to be stricter so only the true enforcer of the law (COPS) would have them and i would feel easier knowing i'm safe.

3. Me having a gun does NOT make me safe automatically. There's more to it than just having a gun.

Think with a criminal mind set.. if you wanted to kill or shoot up a study hall, would you go where there is a ban on public ownership of guns or where people own guns and carry concealed weapons?

If you are a robber and want to rob someone's home, would you go in a home whose owner has a gun or that which does not?

[teggy]

Re: Breaking news: Shooting at Illinois campus

No my dear friend, when u shoot someone in the arm, that person loses the ability to shoot, let alone hold a gun.

and yes 007 is not real, neither is Superman :)

Gotta go now...but seriously! I mean C'moooooooooooooooon!

:D