[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
I once went to that masjid for jummah in sindh madresah ......one of the namzi told me that sunni mosjid is on the other side ........so sad ......
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thanks for your contribution to this thread bao bihari..its too bad one of yours had to sacrifice his life to kill dozen innocent people.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *
I would rather make the Local Police force Responsible and Questionable.
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You meant answerable.
The culture of suicide bombing has already been popularized by the Palestinains and muslims leaders have either remained silent or offerred excuses for it so far. Obviously thw chickens will come home to roost.
Folks this thread is not about Shia-Sunni flame wars. Concentrate on the topic. We wouldnd want to have a moratorium here as well. Thank you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 5Abi: *
Folks this thread is not about Shia-Sunni flame wars. Concentrate on the topic. We wouldnd want to have a moratorium here as well. Thank you.
[/QUOTE]
you tell em 5abi
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *
RajputFury,
From your posts and Language you do seem to be an Intelligent person.
But I am sorry to say that your views are not practical at all.
Arming any sect or section of the community is totally absurd, if that is done where does it end? Tomorrow every sect will want such benefits. And if that happens then just Multiply the problem that you have now 100 times!!!
I would rather make the Local Police force Responsible and Questionable.
regards
Aejaz
[/QUOTE]
Aejaz,
It is matter of reality that the govt has failed time and time again. Earlier Sheraz Bhai, made an anology to 9-11, which 100% correct. Of you say that arming one section of society is incorrect then niether is exterminating the Shia community. What other "sect" is as targetted as the Shias in Pakistan? I am talking about contemporary times here.
Making the local police responsible has not and cannot work in major cities like Karachi. I have said this before, but I'll repeat it again: making hollow statements or condolances doesn't work, action must be taken. Such security force can be brought together within 6 months. I know for a fact that there would be enough volunteers within the Shia community for such an endevour. The question remains, how many of you (Shia/Sunni) would rather take action or wait till the next attack to start up this thread again?
Sad, very sad indeed.
Pakistanis are still reaping what Zia sowed. The current military dictator is also very busy planting the seeds of his 'me first' policies. Brothers, we have to reap it as well, and very soon.
^ pray tell, which government..military or civilian was able to control violence? whether sectarian or ethnic. goign back to the 70's..
so before we start jumping up and down and saying its the current govt's failing..which btw faces more pressure from external and internal extremist groups than any prior govt, lets look at previous regimes.. and see who had been able to control such violence.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
^ pray tell, which government..military or civilian was able to control violence? whether sectarian or ethnic. goign back to the 70's..
so before we start jumping up and down and saying its the current govt's failing..which btw faces more external support of extremist groups than any prior govt, lets look at previous regimes.. and see who had been able to control such violence.
[/QUOTE]
Right ^
Karachi has been ablaze for two decades now. So yes blame Zia, but don't be blinded by your hatred of the military to disregard the fact that BB and NS are also reponsible.
Fraudia: I am not saying who managed to control violences and who doesn't. I am pointing out to those elements who injected the germs of religious intolerance into this country.
It is well know that Zia supported sunni extremists throught the country. Zia, the first convert to Wahabism in Pakistan, encouraged the enforcement of Wahabism in Pakistan. During his era Karachi experienced unprecedented clashses between Shias and Sunnis.
This is true. Almost all the seeds of vioence and turmoil in Pakistan have been planted by the army. The civillian rulers have just been bystanders to it and used the situation to steal money, nothing more.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Right ^
Karachi has been ablaze for two decades now. So yes blame Zia, but don't be blinded by your hatred of the military to disregard the fact that BB and NS are also reponsible.
[/QUOTE]
BB and NS might be looters and plunderers, but they were not responsible for the sectarian killings, the seeds were already laid out by that madman Zia.
^ but ethnic violence existed pre-zia time, unless he went back in a time machine and set that up too.
the pre zia pathan-behari violence in Karachi, and the sindhi-mohajir violence is well known to ppl who were there then or had family who witnessed those times
^Fraudia,
Yes, Karachi has gone through violence of all kind between the Pathans and MQM, the Sindhi-MQM, MQM-Haqiqi etc. Indeed all governments played politics with the various groups that resulted in the waxing and waning of troubles.
But specifically with respect to the anti-Shia violence, the blame can be directly laid at the feet of Zia. He was the one who encouraged the spread of Wahhabism and its sinister partnership with the Deobandi extremists to create a monster. Zia enocuraged Arab sheikhs who used to come on bird hunting trips to the Rahim Yar Khan areas and then gave money to start Wahhabi madaris in that region. That spread and spread with Arab (mainly Saudi, but UAE also) money. Karachi became a playground for these people to experiment their ideas.
Virtually every SSP/LeJ terrorist owed his survival to the patronage by the agencies at one time or another.
I’m very angry at Musharraf because he came to power promising to clean up this mess but it has only grown under his rule. The last straw was Musharraf allowing an animal like Azam Tariq to become an MNA even though he had murder FIRs on his name. Frankly I find it hard to believe that Musharraf sees this as a problem. Lot of people get killed in Pakistan, so what if a few Shia are killed, right? After all, they are not “my” people - seems to be the attitude of Musharraf.
Has anyone responsible for the three recent attacks in Quetta been brought to justice? Has anyone responsible for the SUPARCO killings been convicted?
Meanwhile, the government has time and energy to arrest and try Javed Hashmi on a false case. They have resources to aggressively push the case of Allama Sajid Naqvi on the Azam Tariq murder case. Was Azam Tariq ever tried for the murders of various Shia he had incited numerous times through his speeches and tape recordings?
When the State fails to act and sometimes even encourages the victimization of a minority, it is playing with fire. When it does so for decades, it is beyond alarming. There is a limit for everything. 
Rajput yaar, i know what you are saying but that wouldn't really solve anything..they will start target killing if they can't blow mosques..i am forgetting which year it was, maybe 2001..they had killed over 70 shia doctors, just in karachi
so only the govt can really eliminate these groups..they probably can too if they try hard enough..but dard usko hi hota hai jisko chot lagti hai
Khilaari
I see what you are sayong, but I am saying that govts in past have not been able to control the violence either whether ethnic or sectarian.
just like the killers of shias have not been brought to justice, same goes for the architects of the massacre of Mohajirs in Hyderabad..
^Fraudia,
There’s a lot of difference between not being able to contain violent and covert state sanctuary and support for the perpetrators of these acts. Under the guise of “enlightened moderation” 
Musharraf has done many things exactly like Zia. After all, who supported Musharraf’s ramming through the LFO and NSC ? Musharraf and Mullahs do the same things while saying different words.
The Pakistani state institutions are not powerless. They are infact supremely potent when they feel their interests are threatened. Just look at what they are able to do to political opponents and journalists who stray? Now if Asif Zardari can be kept in jail for 7 years without trial, why can’t the government arrest all SSP leaders and incarcerate them for good? Before the Quetta imambargah massacre, a well known SSP mullah in that city issued a fatwa calling for the elimination of “anti-Islamic” agents and those who “defile the Prophet (PBUH)” with thinly veiled condemnation of the Hazaras. Guess what, within days LJ terrorists did the massacre. These events do not happen in vacuum. The leadership makes noises in speeches and meetings and the faithful do the needful.
Why can Musharraf keep Javed Hashmi and Asif Zardari in prison while he claims “no evidence” or some bull$hit reason against known terrorist leaders?
The only conclusion we can draw is that the top echelons of the army does not see sectarian violence as a real threat.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
Rajput yaar, i know what you are saying but that wouldn't really solve anything..they will start target killing if they can't blow mosques..i am forgetting which year it was, maybe 2001..they had killed over 70 shia doctors, just in karachi
so only the govt can really eliminate these groups..they probably can too if they try hard enough..but dard usko hi hota hai jisko chot lagti hai
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Sheraz bhai, I have low faith in govt regarding this issue. Even BB, who is Shia failed in that regard. I know it is not a permenant solution but we have to come up with a functional solution. Haath pe haath rakhney se, makes no difference. I, for one, do not want to find out that my family members who are Shia were harmed in a future attack.
Pakistan is already awash in Kalasnikov culture, if a few Shias organized themselves, it wouldn't mean the end. If you think that they would abuse the power, then lets not forgot how easily that problem can be solved.
RF Bhai,
I see the point you are making, but I feel that the real solution comes from political empowerment of the victims and state punishment of the culprits.
Shias can form vigilante groups, but that if state agencies still covertly support the Wahhabi terrorist groups for whatever reason, they will find a way to hunt the Shia militia down and we will have a civil war which the state will eventually win leaving the Shia community more isolated and dejected.
The people in power - in this case Musharraf - need to understand that the actions of the Wahhabi thugs are just as threatening to Pakistan's "national interest" as is Kashmir or the nuclear program independence.
Despite the hot air of "we will hunt them down" or "we must reduce extremism", the powers that be in Pakistan have never treated the anti-Shia violence as anything more than a nuisance.
For real results, we need action in the scale of the 1990s anti-MQM purges. Bring in the rangers/Army, go to Binori town and other areas of radical Deobandi madaris where jihadi groups thrive and clean them one block at a time. Then arrest or exile the SSP/LJ top leadership or eliminate them. Nothing else will work.
I agree that doctrinal differences between Shia and Sunni fiqh, but everyone in Pakistan knows that a large number of families have Shia and Sunni members. One of my cousins is married to a Sunni. These differences are unbridgeable only in the minds of extremists.
I'm despondent about this whole thing. When Musharraf took power, I distributed mithai. Now he has proven to be a fraud, just like Zia.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Aejaz,
It is matter of reality that the govt has failed time and time again. Earlier Sheraz Bhai, made an anology to 9-11, which 100% correct. Of you say that arming one section of society is incorrect then niether is exterminating the Shia community. What other "sect" is as targetted as the Shias in Pakistan? I am talking about contemporary times here.
Making the local police responsible has not and cannot work in major cities like Karachi. I have said this before, but I'll repeat it again: making hollow statements or condolances doesn't work, action must be taken. Such security force can be brought together within 6 months. I know for a fact that there would be enough volunteers within the Shia community for such an endevour. The question remains, how many of you (Shia/Sunni) would rather take action or wait till the next attack to start up this thread again?
[/QUOTE]
RajputFury,
If Government fails put up a movement to dismantle it, make your views known, demonstrate at local police offices, pressurize the local politicians for prompt action. its not going to be easy!!
The point I am trying to make here RajputFury Bhai is that 2 wrongs dont make a right!!!
If you find my comments hollow or shallow I am sorry that was not meant to be.
I again repeat my question arming the Shias where will it lead to??? when Sunnis kill Shias (we are presuming that here, dont write off politics) and then when the Shias Retaliate, and kill a few Sunni Muslims will that make you feel any better????
and yes to your question,
I am a Proud Indian Shia Muslim!!!!!
regards,
Aejaz