Re: Black Magic
Let's see.. WHY were the 4 quls sent down? Go figure out the answer and woweeeeee, this whole thread would have served it's purpose :D
So we are agreed that some of us here believe in sihr, and some of us do not.
To those of us who do NOT believe in sihr, what would u say if a perfectly normal person, who is happy with their life, no undue stress, began to behave very strangely, experienced things that didnt make sense, see things only at certain times of night, changed in the way they responded to their spouse etc, but no one thought it was due to sihr bcos the thought didnt even pop into their head, they just thought it weird that all these things were happening...
UNTIL they found:
A dodgy taweez thing stuffed into their purse.
Finger nail clippings under their doormat.
Sand sprinkled in a symbol outside their house.
Papers stuffed with dirt, tied in string with symbols hidden under furniture.
And they still didnt believe, but when the above was removed, they felt more at peace.
But they had strange disturbances at night, a dark figure by their bedside, same thing night after night, becoming more menacing and closer.
So after some one who lived there moved a "gift" given to them by someone in pakistan from the bedside to a guest room, the visions immediately stopped. And everything went back to the way it was.
But when some guests who had no idea of the above came to stay the night in the guestroom, they had terrifying similar visions and screamed out at night, why was that?
To prove black magic exists. One can carry out a very simple test.
Take a volunteer. You can find many who will challange including me. Go to some alim, any of your choice, and not just 1, 10, take on 50. Tell those baba's to inflic what ever black magic, jadoo they want to inflict.
Note the persons behaviour before and after. Note his life patterns. Note his life in general before and after. And then judge it your self.
There is no need for any scientific aparatus, equipment or anything of any sort.
Re: Black Magic
^ But sihr can only have an effect on you IF Allah allows it to have an effect on you.
So we are agreed that some of us here believe in sihr, and some of us do not.
To those of us who do NOT believe in sihr, what would u say if a perfectly normal person, who is happy with their life, no undue stress, began to behave very strangely, experienced things that didnt make sense, see things only at certain times of night, changed in the way they responded to their spouse etc, but no one thought it was due to sihr bcos the thought didnt even pop into their head, they just thought it weird that all these things were happening...
UNTIL they found:
A dodgy taweez thing stuffed into their purse. Finger nail clippings under their doormat. Sand sprinkled in a symbol outside their house. Papers stuffed with dirt, tied in string with symbols hidden under furniture.
And they still didnt believe, but when the above was removed, they felt more at peace....
Jins are every where. They are not BOUND by location. They dont go about to places which have specific entities like taweez, or nails etcetc. Those are mere supersitions fueled by our imagination. You say a certain someone did not believe he was cursed till he encountered those things that you mentioned. Just spotting those nails, sand sprinked, taweez shows that sub counsiously you believed you were cursed which is why you noted these things in the first place.
If I start really observing this way, I could say I have been cursed for life. Are you trying to understand what I am saying. Sometimes it looks real because you have no explanation for it and sometimes its just coincidence. None of this nonsence about nails etc is mentioned ANYWHERE in the sunnah, or Quran. So I refuse to belive it.
Besides my first point that jins are everywhere, if they want to scare or make you do things, they wont need the likes of nails, or sand paper etc, they will seek permision from God and it will be HIS will that causes something to happen. So the point in blaming black magic is?
Eventually someone is going to write a book on it with valid evidences on the so called paranoid behaviours of people based on the belief of Black magic. I say this again loud and clear, I am willing to put my self as a test subject for black magic. If it is HIS will, then it would be my fate and I would be destined to it anyway. Otherwise I am under HIS protection.
^ But sihr can only have an effect on you IF Allah allows it to have an effect on you.
Yes! It will only effect you with Allah's permision. Which simply means putting it on magic is no excuse for your action. This goes to the debate of Islamic contradiction on predestination and free will. We have free will but God knows our path and destination.
So it is my choice to do what I do, but God knows Wht I will do. My point is, you did something wrong, sinful etc, or you could not do something because of some magic, you should NOT blame magic because of your short commings and inability. It is a test, so take it as a test and pass it. Do not be a "shikaitee tatoo" (whinning person) by putting it on some entity. Beliveing you are cursed will shatter your ability to anything right. Counsiouly you fear God alone but sub counsiously you fear this entity "black magic" more.
Re: Black Magic
And dont for a second think I am weak in Iman. Only God knows what I am truely. And I seek His mercy. But Allhamdulliah, I have a very strong faith. Much, much stronger then those who I personally know who belive in the black magic. My posts in this forum are based on my experiences and encounters with very close friends / relatives beliveing in such things. Believing some alim will solve your problems, throwing that random peace of paper in your purse out, or locking the door and putting tooth picks in a certain order to keep that jinn out WILL NOT SOLVE IT. It only solves the problem when you are led to belive it does on a make belive magic entity. So the system works for us in pakistan. But any logcial and person of strong Iman will not get effected unless it is HIS will.
From my experiences 99.99% are false. Negative energy and positive energy is something we will never understand. But it really depends on the person you want to effect it. Weaker minds are easily manipulated and this is a fact.
Excuse me? You seek to insult me because I disagree? I have studied the practice of magic in several ancient and modern communities. I have two degree's in religious studies and sociology. I am now currently researching the practice and belief in magic (as they prefer, magick), within modern western society. Please do not assume that you know more of this subject and those that tell you otherwise are somehow inferior in any manner. It's rude, arrogant, and ignorant.
Exactly! Well said.
Cant some people get that there are alot of people who have done soo much research into this subject, through the Quran and sunnah and also through observations on the baviour pattern changes on people who "think" they are infected. Those who belive do not present a valid argument because it can be countered easily by simply observing the persons life before and after. My observations have been what MatineeSiren is pointing to. That such an entity only exists if you think it does.
The only reason why we stress so hard on this is becase no one has come fourth with any valid points. Point us to the real alims and we'll take on from their. So many have failed to do so.
I kind of understand where u r coming from, i have a problem with ppl putting every bad thing that happens to them down to jadoo, HOWEVER, i do believe that jadoo does exist and can be done on people bcos Allah has given people the option to choose to have knowledge of it, and some of these ppl practice it also. But again, it cannot have an effect unless Allah allows it to have an effect.
Of course i would b inclined to say that for someone who is behaving oddly, they would link their odd behaviour with physical evidence of other odd things, like the tawiz etc. But the thing that bothers me is, WHERE did these things appear from, who put them there, and what purpose did these items serve, if not for jadoo? these things are all things that the jadoo practitioner implements.
I kind of understand where u r coming from, i have a problem with ppl putting every bad thing that happens to them down to jadoo, HOWEVER, i do believe that jadoo does exist and can be done on people bcos Allah has given people the option to choose to have knowledge of it, and some of these ppl practice it also. But again, it cannot have an effect unless Allah allows it to have an effect.....
Exactly. I hear you. My point is simply: When you know that your life is written. Your path is known. What you do and what you will not do is known to Allah(SWT). You will be judged by your actions. You have a choice in this life, but God knows which one you will take because time does not exist in the heavens. Everything is preordained. When you know this, then why attribute your inability to perform to some entity (magic) that wont even be matter on the day of judgement?
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[quote="blackmagic, post:5, topic:187551"]
Why cant you answer me one single question. If magic works, why hasnt some of the so called good alim put something on Mr. Bush? Or the terrorists. It just DOESNT BLOODY WORK. It will NOT effect YOU till YOU bring the THOUGHT of magic in that tiny little faith less, illitrate, jahil, stupid brain of yours. /quote]
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Exactly. Anyone want to shed some light on this? I mean yes a lot of bad people are there doing bad things, but there are alot of patriotic people too, and they would definatly have tried it on some of the more generalized enemies. However did it work? Well if something did happen, we will atribute it to magic, if it didnt , then "bolti bund ho jai gi".
Re: Black Magic
god!
how ignorant can people be.
why does anyone need to prove anything?
jab hazoor (saw) par jaadoo kiya jaa sakta hai, tau who are we mere mortals to deny its existance.
black magic exists and its practice has been forbidden as one of the "major/unforgivable sins". its right there next to adultery (shirk)
^exactly... MatineeSiren your the one claiming that you are studying it..how about you disprove it?!
When one makes a statement of fact, the burden of proof is on them. The Quran is self authoritative, and therefore it does not PROVE anything. You cannot use it to suggest a fact.
why would she have to prove it? it says in the Quran that it exists so why wont you believe it?
I have no doubt that as a practice it exists. However, it's efficiency is questionable.
There is a difference.
There is a reason why hypnosis only works on some people. It works only on the weak minds. Similarly, the baba jees and alims are masters in the act of deception and illusion. The only argument we are presenting here is that magic entity, negative energy or what ever thrives on the basis of belief. If you are let to believe you fail an exam, lets say, you will fail no matter how hard you try because subcounsiously you have not accepted the posibility of denial.
Therefore, deny its effect and its existance.
Quran is NOT to be taken litrally and by that I do NOT mean lightly. I mean do not take the LITRAL meaning of it. Quran is not bound by time, however the surrahs have intrepetations that are not the same as litral intrepetations. But this arguments stems to an entire debate on preception.
MS, I never insulted anyone other than those that DENY the existance of black magic.. and I am NO longer repeating myself.. blv in whatever u want and bend the Quran however u want.
I don't need to prove it's existance, it's mentioned in the Quran and that's good enuff for me!
MS, I never insulted anyone other than those that DENY the existance of black magic.. and I am NO longer repeating myself.. blv in whatever u want and bend the Quran however u want.
I don't need to prove it's existance, it's mentioned in the Quran and that's good enuff for me!
Oh yes I am bending the Quran to suit my needs. Wow! Gina I am impressed, you have uncovered the hidden truth behind my agenda to have a following of my own preceptions and it begins with this forum, with my army as you guyz!
Is that enough or should I carry on?
Non of us follow the Quran and sunnah. In the litral sence of the word, we are all doomed to hell. Not once did I say I am bending the Quran, it is merely your arogant preception that concluded that to justify your own self. I always said, the cure is with in you and the Quran. However it ONLY works if you deny you have been effected and to deny that you need to deny its existance. I stress because this has worked for many. You, even though have the correct approach, however still enourage the poor soul to belive that he infact IS infected. You your self may have the power to fight it, but most people dont. So tell them NOT to belive in it and it will work.
The power to fight it itself is within the Quran.. anyhow let everyone blv whatever they want to. Scroll-up I have given plenty of refrences.
The power to fight it itself is within the Quran.. anyhow let everyone blv whatever they want to. Scroll-up I have given plenty of refrences.
renaissance.com.pk/mjuq984.html
The link that you shared with us clearly states that there is no mention in the Quran about the use of surahs as mystical or magical powers. And it is true. It is not the way you speak arabic, not the words it self but the underlying meaning of the surahs that is the real power.
Blackmagic please go thru my earlier posts, I have clearly mentioned everything. In addition to pointing out that people SHUD not blame bad luck or misfortunes on blackmagic however, if they come across sumthing that causes them great worry then to have it treated thru proper aamils. NOT sum fake peers that are out to loot and leave u the same.