Bida'a...

[Lajawab]

Re: Bida’a…

@ravage

Thankyou!

But do you then consider the majority of the Sunnies of the Muslim world to be performing Bid’ah? And what is that status of marriages of the women who remarry after such a divorce? Do you not consider this a much more pertinent and pressing Bid’aa than wearing black in Muharram?

I never said they were doing Bida’a…I simply said I follow a different fiqh…As for the different fiqh, no doubt, if asked, they would have strong proofs regarding their stance…
[/quote]

The essence of this is that it was a namaz that used to be done individually at the time of the prophet, was “regulated” afterwards. nobody denies that reading tarawih prayers is a good thing. but you realise that praying in congregation as a group is much different from praying individually. Salafies have very negative views about Quran khwanies. Tell me, why is sitting in a room and reading a chapter of the Quran bad? The act itself is good, however the claim there is that its bid’aa because it wasnt started at the time of the Prophet. why is gathering together of relatives and having biryani bad? Is it not institutionalized…“regulated” hospitality? every argument you’ve made for Tarawih stands for these rituals too, either these are not bid’ah or tarawih is too.

The As’habis used to join the Holy Prophet (SAW) in prayers and he never sent them home or forbade them from joining him…

Quran Khwani is a term which is neither in the Quran nor the Sunnah…Nor is its practice…Nor the reasons for which it is conducted…It’s not a matter sitting and reading in a room that makes it OK…What really makes it OK is that did anyone practice it? Is it in the Quran? The Sunnah? Did any Khulfa Rashideen establish it?

OK, so let’s assume (a dangerous precedent in Islam) there is nothing wrong with a bunch of people sitting and reciting the Quran…But for what purposes? Chaaleeswan? Duswaan? Ghyiarween shareef? Where the heck did all these things come from?

Eating Biryani in a gathering of relatives has nothing to do with innovation in faith…In fact when you do invite people and rleatives to Biryani and I am in Karachi, you better invite me too…Just don’t spit in my food…

Regulated hospitality is also not a Bida’a since it is a practice not related to Islam…

praying in congregation changes the nature of a namaz. That is why congregational prayers have a different significance from furada prayers. that is where your alteration of an established practice comes into the picture, especially because the question of praying in congregation came before the Prophet and he discouraged people from doing so. Had he wished for them to start after his death, he would have said so. You’re extrapolating beyond his words and intentions.

The Holy Prophet (SAW)prayed for three nights in the Masjid and on all three nights the As’haba joined behind him, yet he never forbade them from doing so or sent them home or told them to pray individually…From this we can gather, that it can be performed individually as well as in a gathering…Hz. Umar simply made it so that people who have not memorized the Quran or can’t read the Quran or don’t know how to properly offer tarawih like the Holy Prophet (SAW) would find it easy to just go to a Masjid and offer it with others…

the jama’at form of tarawih, and not the prayer itself is bid’a, or an “innovation”. I fail to understand what they mean by linguistic falana, perhaps you can explain that to me. Most translations I have read of it have translated it “innovation”. isnt that what bid’a is?

Linguisitically, I love you to death would not literally mean loving someone to death…When I call a fellow Muslim a terrorist as a matter of kidding, I don’t literally mean that he is a terrorist…

As far as As’haba are concerned, they did have a sense of humour, you know? And of course, Arabic being a language rich in meaning and substance, one thing can denote something else…

If you look at what I C&Pd, you’d know…

Let me C&P again:

Similarly when Umar (ra) referred to the regular tarawih prayers, he was only referring to the linguistic meaning. The proof for this claim is clear. Tarawih prayers were not some new practice in religion. The Prophet (saw) instituted the tarawih prayers.

The word Bida’a means innovation…He meant it as the term itself, not in reference to innovation in faith…Look at the blue text…It was an innovation but not in the faith…And indeed, it was an excellent ‘innovation’ for the reasons I mentioned before, i.e. not having memorized Quran, where to prostrate, e.t.c…

Yet, it is not an act representing something from Islam…Like an emotion or practice or an act…If you do it, great reward, if you don’t no probs…It’s not like if you don’t do Tarawih your Islam is shortened or you are bad Muslim or you really don’t care…It’s really up to the individual…

and finally what about the fajr ki azan?

Islam is a fantastic religion for many things, but one is that it encapsulates a lot of things simply in its logic…

The Holy Prophet :saw:, as I stated before, stated that if a disagreement arises, refer to the Khulfa Rashideen …As we know, they were the best, the brightest and lofiest Muslims to be produced under the auspices of the Holy Prophet (SAW)…

This saying of the closes another chapter to any innovation that might raise its head later on…

First of all, keep in mind, the call to prayer itself did not come from either the Quran nor the Sunnah…It was divulged in a dream to a As’habi…Since it was approved by the Holy Prophet :saw:, it ceased to remain an innovation…

However, after the demise of the Holy Prophet (SAW), the Khulfa-e-Rashideen (RadhiAllahaTalaAnhum) were authorized by every authority to do Ijtehad and spread the deen…

Since the addition to the Azaan was done by a Khalif Rashideen, Sunnis will never attribute it as Bida’a…Especially pertaining to Azaan, which was itself initially a Bida’a…It didn’t come from either the Quran or the Sunnah…

And Khulfa Rashideen being rightly guided, no one can change their stance on an issue unless it conflicts with either the Quran or the Sunnah…

Then you will say, it means we can keep adding to the Azaan? The answer is no…With the deaths of the **Rightly Guided **Khulafa, addition or subtraction to what was implemented in their time is a definite Bida’a

P.S. Just on a side note: In An Nassai and Sunan Abu Dawood, it is mentioned that the addition to the Azaan was approved by the Holy Prophet (SAW)…

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Bida’a…

I am not going to say more than I already have… make what you can out of it and try to help your self:

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=6744&dgn=4

Grave worship is wrong, shirk and was not done by Prophet, nor did he asked his Sahaba to pay respect to him in sajdahs or do the same to his grave. SHow of respect or no show of respect, niya or no niya, it is SHIRK. You are fooling no body but yourself.

Aqeedah:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/aqeedah/index.htm

Great Audios, burn 'em and listen

‘The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.’ Someone asked, 'O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?’ He replied, 'They Are those who follow my and my Sahaba’s path" (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)

Any excuses used to justify grave worship, grave prostrating wrong as it is totally against sunnah of the prophet AND his Sahaba. If you do it and want to continue, you are free to but that doesn’t mean you are doing something great or great service to Allah, his messenger, messenger’s companion or the dead person you are worshipping or so called “showing” respect through your Niya.

None of the stuff that I listed was ever done by the Prophet or his companions… I know, it sounds strange because you have been trained to do and practice the Desi Version of Islam… Kufaar of Makkah were also amazed when Prophet told them to worship ONE God and he did that for 13 years… even when they believed that Prophet DOES NOT lie, would not lie and yet they continue to believe what they thought was correct and what they were taught as kids by their parents and grand parents.

And for some this isn’t a greatly serious issue… you should go to data-darbaars and some graves of some other saints in Pakistan and see what type of BS people do there. Even in Kufa and holy places in Iraq… the graves of shia Imams are worshiped and people do sajdah to them. When Brailvies go to Madina, they try to do sajdah to prophet’s grave and the police has to come and turn them towards Makkah.

Shirk and acts of shirk and things that can lead to shirk maybe of no meaning to you but worshiping one God and Tawheed is the basis of Islam and it is a big deal for some out there.

[Guy1]

Re: Bida'a...

all such bidahs like malid,kissing of graves,asking sufies for help,reading salam before azaan and hundreds of other things should be end...

barelvis fitna has been the biggest problem for pakistani society when it comes to religion..shias and sunni conflicts were also there but after the raised of barelvis,things have gone worst...

[system]

Re: Bida’a…

@Guy1

all such bidahs like malid,kissing of graves,asking sufies for help,reading salam before azaan and hundreds of other things should be end…

barelvis fitna has been the biggest problem for pakistani society when it comes to religion..shias and sunni conflicts were also there but after the raised of barelvis,things have gone worst…

Yaar jub kuch aatha na ho, tho puchlia karo…when u do not know something, ask, it doesnt hurt…aand…here r some googled information

Source: Wikpedia

Fitna (فتنة) is an Arabic word for civil war, disagreement, division within Islam. The word also includes the idea of drawing someone away from God.
The term is often used for the First Islamic civil war, in 656–661 CE, a prolonged struggle for the caliphate after the 656 assassination of the caliph Uthman ibn Affan. The Second Fitna, or Second Islamic civil war, is usually identified as the 683–685 CE conflict among the Umayyads for control of the caliphate.

It is also used for non-believers.

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more** Fitnah** (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 8:40 “If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know Allah is your Supporter.”

Another translation omits this Arabic term: [8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed. [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

According to the above provided defination, the first entry to fitna was the Kharijjites who have mutated into today’s Wahabi’s and to a more moderate version the Salafite’s. Basically, any group that claims superiority over the other by virtue of branding others as deviants and their’s as the only path.

[ravage]

Re: Bida'a...

interesting response lajawab, i'll get back to it for sure

[Code_Red]

Re: Bida'a...

Sir Lajawab, The crust of all you this lengthy discussion is that if an good innovation in religion is done by an Arabi guy, then we will elevate it to the same level as Quran and sunnah. But if a good innovation is done by some Non-arabi guy you will be hell bent on declaring him kafir, even if that innovation has no direct link/effect with faith. Like reciting quran in group, because it is not instituted by Holy guys like

a khalifa Rashid OR
a Butcher like Hajjaj

Both are equally holy for us because they are arab, people from 'holy land' (even though one of them has privilege of doing massacare in the same holy land 'Makka muazamma' )

We will follow their sunnah as they are good by default. And we will condemn any innocent little innovation by an indian guy like saying daroor or reading quran in group just because he is not from holy land and thus his innovation is misguided, and all those doing it are kafir.period

This is your stance. It is double standard, mental slavery. But i have no problem with that. All of us have biased stance on one thing or another.

[Lajawab]

Re: Bida’a…

@Code_Red

Sir Lajawab, The crust of all you this lengthy discussion is that if an good innovation in religion is done by an Arabi guy, then we will elevate it to the same level as Quran and sunnah. But if a good innovation is done by some Non-arabi guy you will be hell bent on declaring him kafir, even if that innovation has no direct link/effect with faith. Like reciting quran in group, because it is not instituted by Holy guys like

a khalifa Rashid OR
a Butcher like Hajjaj

Both are equally holy for us because they are arab, people from ‘holy land’ (even though one of them has privilege of doing massacare in the same holy land ‘Makka muazamma’ )

We will follow their sunnah as they are good by default. And we will condemn any innocent little innovation by an indian guy like saying daroor or reading quran in group just because he is not from holy land and thus his innovation is misguided, and all those doing it are kafir.period

This is your stance. It is double standard, mental slavery. But i have no problem with that. All of us have biased stance on one thing or another.

Code Red bhaya, yaar, aap ko jo sahi lagay aap karo…Mujhay meri qabar mubarak aap ko apni…

Mera stance Arbi ya non Arbi ka nahin Quran aur Sunnat ka hai…

Mere liye agar deen main koi cheez in donon sai bahar hai to woh koorha karkat hai…

I am not calling anyone kafir…Have you heard me ever declare anyone kafir?

Deen kai mutabiq Kafir to woh bhi hota hai jo din main 5 waqt namaz nahin parhta kiyun kai us nai Khuda ke ehkaam se baghawat kari…Par mere nazdeek, ye us banday ka aur khuda ka maamla hai…

It is not mental slavery…When your boss tells you to do a job a certain way, he expects you’ll do it and you will otherwise he’ll fire you…Is that also mental slavery?

I condemn ay innovation whther it be from an Arbi guy or a non Arbi guy…

[Code_Red]

Re: Bida’a…

And Lastly let me clear your illusion regarding putting Aar’aab on quranic text has anything good in it.

Mr. Lajawab and all the holy-arab-guys-did-no-bidah gang. Read and understand once and for all.

Aa’raab were added to quranic text much later than the time of prophet our Rightly guided Caliph. Please keep in mind Islamic empire reached far persia and egypt ,Bayt-ul-maqdas and many other non-arab parts much earlier, but these were not added.

In my opinion addition of these Aaraab was most malicious crime against quran and generation of Non-arab muslim to come. See how !

As Lajawab, said without these Aa’raab a non-arabi speaking guy would pronouce Bismillah as **Basmallah **this is totally correct ! For this very same reason that non-arab guy would need to know basic arabic gramar and pronouciation, so that he would be able to read and understand quran in arabic properly .

For example all of us who are able to read and comment here needed to know basic/elementary english in school. Where we learned that pronounciation of But and put are not similar same way door and poor are not pronounced in same way. We get to know the basic gramar, so that we should write (reasonablely) proper sentence in present, past and future tense.
Thus now we are able to comunicate and understand what is being said and is tried to convey (jokingly, sarcastically or seriously) in that language.

Same is the case with other languages like persian and urdu.

But that guy deprived us need to know and learn Arabic, thus made us parrot, literally. We have no understanding of what is written, and all due to that butcher. For me that is the most henious bidah of all time.

Please ! for once, ‘honestly’ prove me wrong

[Lajawab]

Re: Bida’a…

@Code_Red

And Lastly let me clear your illusion regarding putting Aar’aab on quranic text has anything good in it.

Mr. Lajawab and all the holy-arab-guys-did-no-bidah gang. Read and understand once and for all.

Aa’raab were added to quranic text much later than the time of prophet our Rightly guided Caliph. Please keep in mind Islamic empire reached far persia and egypt ,Bayt-ul-maqdas and many other non-arab parts much earlier, but these were not added.

In my opinion addition of these Aaraab was most malicious crime against quran and generation of Non-arab muslim to come. See how !

As Lajawab, said without these Aa’raab a non-arabi speaking guy would pronouce Bismillah as **Basmallah **this is totally correct ! For this very same reason that non-arab guy would need to know basic arabic gramar and pronouciation, so that he would be able to read and understand quran in arabic properly .

For example all of us who are able to read and comment here needed to know basic/elementary english in school. Where we learned that pronounciation of But and put are not similar same way door and poor are not pronounced in same way. We get to know the basic gramar, so that we should write (reasonablely) proper sentence in present, past and future tense.
Thus now we are able to comunicate and understand what is being said and is tried to convey (jokingly, sarcastically or seriously) in that language.

Same is the case with other languages like persian and urdu.

But that guy deprived us need to know and learn Arabic, thus made us parrot, literally. We have no understanding of what is written, and all due to that butcher. For me that is the most henious bidah of all time.

Please ! for once, ‘honestly’ prove me wrong

So, for a person who becomes a Muslim at the age of 90 will have to learn a whole new language just to read the Quran?

[Code_Red]

Re: Bida’a…

Come on !
you can do better than this :halo:

Quran was revealed for parroting or reading it with understanding ?
Do i need to quote quranic verses ?

Just condemn that Arabi guy. He did nothing good for Islam. Why you need to defend that guy who deprived us the teaching of quran and made it a privilage ?

[Lajawab]

Re: Bida’a…

@Code_Red

Come on !
you can do better than this :halo:

Quran was revealed for parroting or reading it with understanding ?
Do i need to quote quranic verses ?

Just condemn that Arabi guy. He did nothing good for Islam. Why you need to defend that guy who deprived us the teaching of quran and made it a privilage ?

How would a person who doesn’t speak Arabic read it with understanding? Is the translation also a Bida’a? How about someone who wishes to read the Quran before becoming a Muslim…Learn Arabic first?

Problem is, people make trouble for scholars if they stop people from deviating…Yet when they do something to make Islam easy, the same guys make trouble again…

For the scholars it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t…

[Code_Red]

Re: Bida’a…

Sir, how long it takes to learn english ? Six months ?, 3 months on a fast track ! Learning language is not difficult. people of used to learn many foreign languages, they still do if they need to

Funny thing, for a long time it was thought that translating quran is sin. Why ?
because perhaps people with Non-arabic origin wanted make it easier to understand for Non-arabi people.

Sir, for you whatever done by Arabi guys is ‘holy’ thus for you if he ordered to worship is a group (congression) then it should be followed by whole islamic world, and it is a noble deed. but on the same token if an indian pious guy thought to gather people and say Darood ( peace and blessing on prophet) then is most wicked thing to do and out of the fold of islam.

See the rising sun and smell coffee

[ravage]

Re: Bida’a…

I never said they were doing Bida’a…I simply said I follow a different fiqh…As for the different fiqh, no doubt, if asked, they would have strong proofs regarding their stance…

That is a very commendable idea. Why dont you apply the same approach towards other practices not in your fiqah? Clearly 3 divorces do not apply from a salafist point of view. Thereby the thousands of Muslim women who remarry after such divorces are living in Sin. That is an extremely serious offence, yet you choose to refrain from criticizing a practice performed in the bulk of the Muslim world (including the arab world) and say they must have strong proofs for that act, but are so quick to condemn much more personal acts that are at worst mubah (wearing black on a specific day) as Bid’ah?

The As’habis used to join the Holy Prophet (SAW) in prayers and he never sent them home or forbade them from joining him…

He changed the way he was praying specifically to avoid Muslims to pray taraweeh in congregation. To extrapolate beyond that to say that its okay after the Prophet has died doesnt make sense.

Quran Khwani is a term which is neither in the Quran nor the Sunnah…Nor is its practice…Nor the reasons for which it is conducted…It’s not a matter sitting and reading in a room that makes it OK…What really makes it OK is that did anyone practice it? Is it in the Quran? The Sunnah? Did any Khulfa Rashideen establish it?

As an act it is merely reading the Quran, which is extremely sawab wala amal. Are you saying regulated good acts can only be established by the Khulafa e Rashideen? Could you give me your basis for saying that? According to all Muslims Islam was completed when “al youm akmaltu lakum deenukum” wali ayat was revealed. Unless you can show me that additions to the religion can be performed by the 4 people you call Khulfa e Rashidin and not beyond (from Quran and hadis) i dont buy your argument.

OK, so let’s assume (a dangerous precedent in Islam) there is nothing wrong with a bunch of people sitting and reciting the Quran…But for what purposes? Chaaleeswan? Duswaan? Ghyiarween shareef? Where the heck did all these things come from?

Does it matter where? Is that your criterion for determining if something is bid’aa or not? The purpose of it? Must a practive alter the faith in a way that appeals to you for it to be bid’aa?

Eating Biryani in a gathering of relatives has nothing to do with innovation in faith…In fact when you do invite people and rleatives to Biryani and I am in Karachi, you better invite me too…Just don’t spit in my food…

Regulated hospitality is also not a Bida’a since it is a practice not related to Islam…

On the contrary, nazr o niyaz (gathering of relatives and eating food) is not regarded as good by many salafies. If you’re ever in town though, you’re welcome to attend any nazars i arrange though

The Holy Prophet (SAW)prayed for three nights in the Masjid and on all three nights the As’haba joined behind him, yet he never forbade them from doing so or sent them home or told them to pray individually…From this we can gather, that it can be performed individually as well as in a gathering…Hz. Umar simply made it so that people who have not memorized the Quran or can’t read the Quran or don’t know how to properly offer tarawih like the Holy Prophet (SAW) would find it easy to just go to a Masjid and offer it with others…

As I said before, he stopped praying the way he used to, changed his way of praying because people were joining him in congregation. The same reasons that Hazrat Umar cited existed at the time of the Prophet. His intentions no doubt would have been good, Im asking whether or not him initiating an act the Prophet avoided praying in congregation comprises Bid’aa or not.

As I understand it good intentions and ideas do not mitigate a bid’aa.

Linguisitically, I love you to death would not literally mean loving someone to death…When I call a fellow Muslim a terrorist as a matter of kidding, I don’t literally mean that he is a terrorist…

As far as As’haba are concerned, they did have a sense of humour, you know? And of course, Arabic being a language rich in meaning and substance, one thing can denote something else…

If you look at what I C&Pd, you’d know…

Let me C&P again:

Similarly when Umar (ra) referred to the regular tarawih prayers, he was only referring to the linguistic meaning. The proof for this claim is clear. Tarawih prayers were not some new practice in religion. The Prophet (saw) instituted the tarawih prayers.

The word Bida’a means innovation…He meant it as the term itself, not in reference to innovation in faith…Look at the blue text…It was an innovation but not in the faith…And indeed, it was an excellent ‘innovation’ for the reasons I mentioned before, i.e. not having memorized Quran, where to prostrate, e.t.c…

Yet, it is not an act representing something from Islam…Like an emotion or practice or an act…If you do it, great reward, if you don’t no probs…It’s not like if you don’t do Tarawih your Islam is shortened or you are bad Muslim or you really don’t care…It’s really up to the individual…

This same argument for any other bid’aa the Salafies dislike. Khatams, quran khwanis, wearing black, all of them are optional things.

People read Quran at the time of the Prophet. They did not read it in a room on a specific day. People read Tarawih at the time of the prophet. They did not congregate behind an imam in a mosque to do it (he specifically avoided it, and changed the way he prayed because of that)

Islam is a fantastic religion for many things, but one is that it encapsulates a lot of things simply in its logic…

The Holy Prophet :saw:, as I stated before, stated that if a disagreement arises, refer to the Khulfa Rashideen …As we know, they were the best, the brightest and lofiest Muslims to be produced under the auspices of the Holy Prophet (SAW)…

There was no disagreement about the Azaan or about taraweeh. Did the Prophet ask people to refer to the Khulafa e Rashidin when altering the way a namaz is prayed or altering the way an Azaan is said or altering the way a divorce is effected?

This qying of the closes another chapter to any innovation that might raise its head later on…

First of all, keep in mind, the call to prayer itself did not come from either the Quran nor the Sunnah…It was divulged in a dream to a As’habi…Since it was approved by the Holy Prophet :saw:, it ceased to remain an innovation…

Do we not believe that everything the Prophet said in matters of faith had Allah’s approval. Why is it relevant that a sahabi dreamt of a namaz, the sanction of that was through Allah’s will.

However, after the demise of the Holy Prophet (SAW), the Khulfa-e-Rashideen (RadhiAllahaTalaAnhum) were authorized by every authority to do Ijtehad and spread the deen…

Since the addition to the Azaan was done by a Khalif Rashideen, Sunnis will never attribute it as Bida’a…Especially pertaining to Azaan, which was itself initially a Bida’a…It didn’t come from either the Quran or the Sunnah…

I disagre. The azaan was not a Bid’aa because it was started at the time of the Prophet. A bid’aa by definition is something that is done after the completion of Islam and the death of the Prophet.

Sunnies do attribute the addition to the azaan as bid’aa, those who believe in good bid’aas anyway.

How is it ijtehad when its something you approve of, and bid’aa when its something you dont practice yourself?

And Khulfa Rashideen being rightly guided, no one can change their stance on an issue unless it conflicts with either the Quran or the Sunnah…

As i said, give me the proof that the Khulafa e Rashidin had the sole right to introduce changes to different acts of faith.

Then you will say, it means we can keep adding to the Azaan? The answer is no…With the deaths of the **Rightly Guided **Khulafa, addition or subtraction to what was implemented in their time is a definite Bida’a

why? does ijtehad end with the Khulafa e Rashidin? give me the basis for this.

P.S. Just on a side note: In An Nassai and Sunan Abu Dawood, it is mentioned that the addition to the Azaan was approved by the Holy Prophet (SAW)…

do you believe this? i’ll accept this answer (not the one made before this). That still leaves the question of the 3 divorces which clearly was practiced different till the 2nd caliph and is practiced differently now.

[ammarr]

Re: Bida'a...

Sheraz,

I think the discussion was about what comes under bidaa, not about following the ahlul bait.

Anyway, I dont see why you're trying to imply "either this or that". Sunnis believe in following the sahaba, and also the family of the Prophet (saws). Both of them are sources of knowledge. Its your "divide and conquer" mentality which is bent on putting the sahaba down.

.. and lastly, there is no such things as the sahih muslim having highter priority over the musnad of ahmed ibn hanbal. All ahadith are judged according to their degree of correctness regardless of which book they come from. The sahih muslim just has more sahih ahadith compared to the musnad of ahmed ibn hanbal. This does not mean that every hadith in sahih muslim holds a priority over every other book.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Bida'a...

Please keep it clean and refrain from insulting each other.

[Sheraz_CT]

Re: Bida'a...

it is actually this or that...Prophet (pbuh&up) did only say He is leaving behind 2 things and not 3..either accept the hadith from muslim or hunbal

direction of the thread went elsewhere because jaan leva needs to stop spitting filth here

[ImranQ]

Re: Bida'a...

@Guy1

all such bidahs like malid,kissing of graves,asking sufies for help,reading salam before azaan and hundreds of other things should be end...

barelvis fitna has been the biggest problem for pakistani society when it comes to religion..shias and sunni conflicts were also there but after the raised of barelvis,things have gone worst...

Sectarian violence that taking place in pakistan is mainly between sippa-e-sahaba (wahabi) and sippa-e-mohammad (shia) and non of them are barelvis.

JL: Agree, Grave Worshiping is haram but who does it! I have yet to see someone doing sajda.

[Lajawab]

Re: Bida'a...

The Arabic in my initial post still needs to be translated...:(

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Bida'a...

Imran, maybe you should pay visit to the major saint graves in South Asia, Iran and Iraq. This problem used to be huge in middle east but has been taken cared of ever since the advent of the oh so bad bad "wahabis."

Btw, Sippa-sahaba are no longer in power in Pakistan... and they aren't wahabi nor do they call themselves wahabi, no group does actually - *it is a name given to someone by Brailvies and other bidaties. Any body would fit the *wahabi definition if your are against much of the stuff which I mentioned. No Muslim group or Pakistani would gain from starting religious fights in Pakistan... non Muslims gain much more than these small groups - Does divide and rule ring a bell? These major fights were not there even long after the death of Prophet Mohammad... religious differences existed but none declared the other kafir or attacked for having a different point of view on religious aspects of their lives... violence between different factions started merely 300-200 years ago when imperial terrorists, the british set foot in Muslim lands and at that time they were the easy target so the onslaught continues. Besides, unless someone takes responsibility of the attacks, you should not blame it on someone just because... unless you can back it up with good solid evidence.

[stupid_idiot]

Re: Bida'a...

@Lajawab

The Arabic in my initial post still needs to be translated...:(

i thought i did!

Wa qul-la muh-da-tha-tin bida'ah
Wa qul-la bida'ah atin dalalah
Wa qul-la dalalah tin fin nar
*Prophet Muhammad (s) said:"Every innovation is misguidance and going astray"
*[source: Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137)]

Propher Muhammad (s) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire."
**source: ****Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58)]

** wrong answer?!