dude i dont disagree that offering sajday to anyone is wrong because it gives the wrong idea to others, I dont do it myself. nor do i consider it a correct action, this peeri mureedi. However to itnerpret that as shirk/kufr is a bit off, since shirk occurs when you associate partners to Allah. Clearly in the actions of the farishtay that wasnt the niyat, nor was it the niyat of Hazrat Yaqub who prostrated himself before his son Hazrat Yousuf. Are you calling Hazrat Yaqub, a nabi of Allah, nauzubillah, a Kafir?
Are you following Hazrat Yaqub’s shariah or Prophet Mohammads?
If it is Hazrat Yaqub then go right ahead as you are free to choose who you want to follow and if it is Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)'s shariah, then sight any examples of grave worship or grave respect as in Niyatee… and Prophet approved of it and then Sahaba practiced it too.
you're either not reading carefully or you're deliberately not honest in debate. either way im done here. the two instances quoted demonstrate that there is nothing inherently Kufr/Shirk about those actions, it depends on the reasons behind it.
Brother Lajawab and Jan Leva !
Please read carefully.
Lajawab since according to you Azaan (something very basic and vital part of Muslim society, and on this very issue there are recorded incidents of voilence and killing of innocent muslim around the world ) is not part of faith. fine !
But then how on earth somehting as trival as wearing black or observing muharam has become part of faith ? Is showing respect against the sunnah ? prove it.
You have no objection on innovation in Azaan ( I believe it was done during the caliphate of Hazrat Umar, if prophet had approved it then there is no question of biddah. Correct me if i am wrong ) then why object people who are wearing black to remeber darkest part of their history ??
Double standard or what !
Now Come to putting Aa’raab on quranic text.
Who has done it ? Hajaj bin yousuf.
Was he a sahabi ? No ! he was a butcher, a tyrant who has killed thousands fo innocent muslim without any reason !
A quote
And we are following a bid’ah of such a person ! Sub’haan Allah !
And whoever says that Aaraabs were added for simplification
My question : Arabic is one of the major language of this planet, And we find it written on everything from TV manuals, preserved food, grocery products and everywhere. They use no Aa’raab ! No where you will see these !
You see them as tool for simplification, because it was done by some Holy Arabi guy, I see them as a bid’ah which made things complicated. I support my argument by the fact that Arabic written in every part of world is Not supported by these Aa’raabs If more than billion people can read them perfectly than why not Quran ?
^good post. While someone is addressing that, could they also (Lajawab, Jaan Leva has already said he doesnt know) address my question about the bid'ah of three divorces at once? It is practiced in a large part of the Sunni world, is the majority view, and according to sahih ahadith was not practiced during the Prophet's life.
The question of whether a present marriage is valid or not and whether the subsequent marriages of women who get such divorces are valid or not, as I have said before, is much more crucial to the daily lives of Muslims than someone else wearing black on a specific day.
man u are opening a can of worms. Replying to your post would literally take ages. A counter question for you.
plz. recite the dua we read when in graveyard. K, here i go
ASSALAM -O-ALAYKUM YA AHLAL QABOORI YAGHFIRULLAH HO LANA WALA KUM"
Do you do salam to dead?? Do you think ‘YA’ is used for dead?
Ever heard of azab-e-qabar??? What the use punishing dead?? Do you think allah don’t have a common sense (naouzu billah). Would he punish dead in qabar who can’t even feel pain?
Leave it man! put some logic to your view, have proper rest.
Jaan Leva thank you for your civil reply. I disagree with you about whether the question of whether one "worshipping" graves takes a Muslim out of the fold of Islam. That is a very serious allegation and you should know about the many sahih ahadith about how those who cast fatwas of kufr should be careful, one states to the extent that in doing so atleast one of the two is a Kafir. Whether one is merely visiting a grave through potentially misguided ideas of intercession or actually regarding it worthy of worship is a matter of what they believe, and you cannot claim to know what they believe better than them. Given that their stated niyat is not to worship a grave, they are not attributing partners to Allah and are at worst misguided, not Kafirs.
.
Exatly! Don't judge by observing ask them if you have doubts.
He just claims amnesty by virtue of ignorance while you display it proudly like a shining banner for all to see…
In Islam, the Holy Prophet :saw: has stated that even saying ‘I don’t know’ has merit…Meaning, if you don’t know an answer to something, and you say, ‘Allah knows best’ or ‘I don’t know’, it means you have resorted to the truth instead of making up stories to appease someone and that is far more better in the eyes of Allah :swt: than trying to liw to get your word across…
The call to prayer was an issue that Muslims had discussed with the Holy Prophet :saw:…They said the Christian use bells, the Jews use something else e.t.c. What should the Muslims use?
So one Sahabi had a dream that night about calling the faithful to prayer with the human voice and he suggested this to the Holy Prophet :saw: and he approved…And Hz. Bilal was the first chosen to carry out this great task…
The word Quran comes from Qari, Qurra and Iqra…Meaning ‘recitation’…The idea behind the Quran is to recite it…Since we in the sub continent write in Urdu (a recent language) we do not know what to pronounce what in Arabic…
Without these diacritical marks, we would be reciting Bismillah as Basmallah…
And what about transliterations in English, Russian, Polish, Spanish e.t.c.?
If the purpose of an innovation is to help someone recite a Quran from which a benefit can be derived, then it is not a bad innovation, is it…
And I don’t consider it an innovation at all…I consider it a tool…If you believe you can read the Kufi script Quran, then by all means, do so…
Secondly, it’s not an addition to Islam’s practices…Its usage neither changes, alters, adds, subtracts or nullfifies anything…It’s just a tool…
To keep this discussion moving let me mention two things:
Codey isnt speaking about the beginning of Azaan. He is speaking about “Ass salatu khairum minan naum” added to the Azaan of Fajr, added at the time of the second Caliph. Correct me if I am wrong codey.
You are yet to address the question of the bid’aa of 3 divorces at once, which according to sahih ahadith, began at the time of the 2nd Caliph.
Both of these are additions made later to Islamic practices that were established at the time of the Prophet, sustained till his death and even beyond. The Azaan and Divorces both up until Hazrat Umar were performed a different way, and their form was changed by him.
salam o alikum
First of all brother Ahmad since you are a teacher of islamic studies i must tell you i really respect you for that. My most has never bfore and nor is it now intended to have a personal difference on a viewpoint. I believe we are all here to learn and may Allah (swt) help us do that.
which means: <> Those who are misguided interpret the word (kul) as `every' and thus claim this hadith means: "Every innovation is an innovation of misguidance. Their claim is unfounded for two reasons. Linguistically, this hadith is similar to the hadith related by al-Bayhaqiyy: "كل عين زانية"
Which clearly does not mean: "Every eye gazes the look of the adulterer;" rather, "Most people are guilty of the forbidden look." The person blind since birth would surely not have the forbidden look, and it is known the Prophets would never commit such an abject sin. The word "كل" (kul) as used in both hadiths refers to `most,' although it can mean "every" it does not mean this in all cases.
I'll really appreciate if the give the exact refference of both the hadiths you are quoting here. Now the pont is brother you've deduced the mean of world KUL in the second hadith on the grounds that "... ...it is known the Prophets would never commit such an abject sin" and then you are applying the same meaning of KUL in the first hadith for what reason, i still dont get it.
Secondly if I quote a hadith where the world KUL intent to mean all or every would that give me a reason to just the KUL in this hadith as being used as all or every?
As a matter of fact, in the explanation of Sahih Muslim, an-Nawawiyy said: "The saying of the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, «كل بدعة ضلالة» is among the terms which are: "عام مخصوص" (^am makhsus) i.e., a general statement giving a specific meaning; which is a known field in Islam, and the meaning of the hadith is "most innovations are innovations of misguidance."
This field the"عام مخصوص" is seen in the Qur'an in Ayah 3 of Surat al-Ahqaf: تدمر كل شىء] which means the wind Allah sent as punishment to the people of ^Ad demolished most of the things.
To accept the meaning: "Every innovation is an innovation of misguidance," as the meaning of the sahih hadith related by Abu Dawud would negate the sahih hadith related by Imam Muslim which specifies two types of innovations: the innovations of guidance and the innovations of misguidance. In the rules of the Religion it is not permissible to interpret two sahih hadiths in contradiction to one another, therefore we know the true meaning.
Brother the "sahih haidth" of the Muslim you've reffered to please, please, please let me know which hadith is it. I've searching for it for years now. Never crossed my eye. Since you've a deeper knowledge so please share this hadith with me.
Although most innovations are innovations of misguidance, there are numerous examples of Religiously acceptable innovations. During the Caliphate of ^Umar Ibnul Khattab, ^Umar initiated the gathering of people in Ramadan to pray the Tarawih Prayer in congregation. When he saw the people performing this prayer in congregation he said:
نِعْمَت البِدعَةُ هَذِه"ِ"
"What a good innovation that is!"
The high status of ^Umar Ibnul Khattab is known, thus it is important to point out ^Umar used the explicit term البِدعَةُ "innovation" in his praise. If all innovations were misguided--as some claim--^Umar would not have innovated this practice, nor expressed this praise, yet both al-Bukhariyy and Muslim related this incident. During the era of the followers of the Companions of the Prophet, another praise-worthy innovation took place.
Brother mention the source where you get this quotation of Umer, please. I'd not comment on it unless you provide the source and I consult my sheikh. So please... ...
Initially, letters like the ba, ta, tha, and ya, did not have dots above or below them. This practice of distinguishing between the letters by using this notation began after the time of the Prophet.
And if i'm not wrong you want to prove that this act is the act of Bidah and what you call the "good" bidah and thus refute that the first hadith in the disucssion is miss interpreted? A lerned man like you must bring forward some better facts brother, you are a roll model for us all.
Definition of Bid'ah : **"A newly invented way [beliefs or action] in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee'ah (prescribed Law), by which nearness to Allaah is sought, [but] not being supported by any authentic proof - neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it is performed." [source: Al-I'tisaam of ash-Shaatibee (1/37)]
Prophet Muhammad (s) said:"Every innovation is misguidance and going astray"
**[source: Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137)]
Propher Muhammad (s) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire."
**source: ***Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58)]*
The above two hadiths are the estimated meaning of what was asked in the first post of the thread. This also reminds me brother Ahmad that the word KUL has been used three time in the hadith so the first KUL is used for "some" and the last KUL is used for "all" or "still some". Cuz if its for some of the misguidance is in the hell fire which further negates your xplaination.
Due to several reasons, the concept of "Bid'ah" *is not as clear to everyone as it should be. A reason for that is a lot of people are confused about 'good' *"Bid'ah" ** or **"Bid'ah"-e-hasana."
[size=2]Secondly, there are many things which we do now that were not done at the time of Prophet (saw). With the outset of such widespread "Bid'ah", people are confused, and rightly so, as to what is actually SUNNAH and what in religion is not sunnah- i.e. "Bid'ah" **
These misconceptions call for the need to establish the fundamental step which is to know **"Bid'ah"[/size]
According to Ahl-e-Sunnah-wal-Jamaa, a Hadith is to be followed, and that is, that the holy Prophet :saw: declared, that after me, follow the rightly guided Khalifas…
Obviously, they were called and are considered rightly guided for a reason, it is because of their strict adherence to the Quran and Sunnah plus their knowledge in matters of faith…
In matters in which there is a chance that a person might be or have under unmigitating circumstances have to resort to something unIslamic, then it must be allowed through the Ijtehad of people of knowledge…
Example would be eating of pork under the threat of starvation even eating a dead person if nothing else is available…
Another example would be when the Holy Prophet :saw: declared that even if his daughter committed theft, he would cut her hand, yet, Umar Ibn-al-Khattab :razi: declared the Hadd of hand cutting for theft lifted when he saw the condition of the thieves…It was a time of severe drought and famine and the thieves were in a state of near starvation…They had to get food for their families…The ruling and verdict however was not permanent and as soon as times of plenty returned, so did the ruling of imposing the Hadd of cutting the hand for theft…
This is not going against the Quran or the Sunnah of the Prophet, but resorting to Ijtihad to deal with a conflict or needs of the time as they required so that no wrong was committed…
Talaq-al-Bida’a in today’s time has no legal binding…This Ijtehad too was imposed temporarily and no Sunni scholar will argue this point…In fact Umar Ibn-al-Khattab :razi: was said to have whipped husbands who practiced this…
The reason for implementing this form of Talaq, the scholars declare, was that Talaq had started to be misused…(My own personal opinion is that people would declare two Talaqs and leave the last hanging over the head of the woman as a threat, so to stop this misuse and make others realize the importance of the bond that develops between a man and woman, this ruling was applied temporarily…This requiring Halala, and if he wanted her back, he would be forced to see his beloved in the bed of another man and regret what he did in a fit of anger, he would realize his folly…Again, just my view)
However, this ruling has no binding status today either through the Quran or Sunnah…
As for Tarawih, it is not a Bida’a at all…
When the Holy Prophet :saw: started praying Tarawih in the Masjid, the companions would join him and more on the second night and so on…So the Prophet :saw: stopped coming and declared that he did not wish to practice it regulalrly for fear that it would become part of faith…
Tarawih in today’s form as intituted by Umar Ibn-al-Khattab, is no way part of faith…It is simply a Sunnah which has been regulated for those seeking extra credits…Tarawih does not necessarily have to be prayed in the Masjid…Unlike the Jumuah prayers, it can be prayed at home, in the wilderness, in the Masjid, in a congregation, anyway you like…
But the benefit of Tarawih is amazing…By its virtue, since 1/30th part is recited every day, every Muslim gains the benefit and honour of hearing the words of Allah :swt: throughout the Ramadan, the holiest of holy months…
So, it is not an innovation at all…You pray, that’s great, you don’t, it’s cool…It is nothing more than a Sunnah which is regulated…One doesn’t have to do it, but if one does, then it holds great reward…
brother Lajawab made some very good ponts but just as a recomendation please include the sources and actual text of what you are reffering to. It'll help you and the viewrs inshaAllah
If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that “talaq al Bid’aa” was temporarily imposed and then abolished? That is extremely incorrect. The majority sunni view is that such a talaq is binding. Including the hanafi fiqh, deobandi and barelvi, in addition to the other three schools. Such talaqs ARE recognized in your own country Pakistan according to the Shariah courts, which are representative of Sunni theology. I also posted these two links:
Both of these have fatawa from the 4 Mazhabs of Sunni thought, much after the time of the 2nd Caliph, where there is atleast partial agreement to 3 divorces being 3. Clearly the 3 tallaqs were prevalent in a large part Sunni thought then, they are prevalent now.
A significant minority of Sunnies, the salafist view, unambiguously disagrees. Oddly enough, Salafies and Shias have the same stance on this issue
Secondly you mention the Prophet not observing those prayers so they dont become mandatory. If you actually go through the text of the sahih hadis posted, it mentions two things:
This prayer was prayed individually till some period in the 2nd Caliphs time
This prayer was started in congregation during the 2nd Caliphs time, and he himself said that it was a good bida
Now, as far as your argument that it has benefits, someone who observes Muharram will say the same. Someone who holds a quran Khwani will say the same.
As far as your argument that “its cool” if you dont do it, thus its not an innovation. The same can be said about any other Bid’aa you rail against. That does not define a Bid’a.
Don’t know about other fiqhs, but as you know, I have tended to veer more towards the Salafi (Wahabbi :cb:) way of thinking…
And since the knowledge I know comes from Salafist POV, I consider the Quran and Sunnah’s rulings on anything as far more important than that of Umar :razi:…(Unless an issue is concerned where my knowledge of buth QUran and Sunnah fail)
So, as far as I am concerned, three times in one instance should be counted as one…
I still do not consider Tarawih a Bida’a the performance or observance of which affect one’s faith…True, there is a reward in it, just like giving water is to someone, but if someone makes an issue of giving water to at least 3 people a day his lifelong goal, it would not be Bida’a…
Here’s what I got from a website and is an excellent answer to your question…
[C&P]5. Bida has no source and or evidence in Qur’an, Sunnah of Prophet (Saw) and in the actions or Ijma (agreement) of Sahabas.
One famous example that is quoted by the Ahl-Bida in their desire to make some forms of bida halal, is the example of Umar (ra) and the tarawih prayers. They claim that since Umar (ra) started daily tarawih prayers in ramadhan while the Prophet (saw) only performed 3 nights, and Umar (ra) said that he started a good ‘bida’, we can accept the concept of bida. However, this is a failure to distinguish the linguistic meaning of bida from its Shari’a meaning. For instance Allah refers in the Quran to his Sunnah. Obviously when one refers to sunnah, it is a reference to the Prophet’s sunnah and its Shari’a aspects. Similarly when Umar (ra) referred to the regular tarawih prayers, he was only referring to the linguistic meaning. The proof for this claim is clear. Tarawih prayers were not some new practice in religion. The Prophet (saw) instituted the tarawih prayers. The only reason that he stopped after 3 nights was clarified in his own saying that he did not wish that the tarawih prayers be made obligatory upon the Muslims. However, at the Prophet’s death, the message of Islam had been perfected and tarawih prayers would always be recommended and not mandatory. Thus, Umar (ra) only started the practice of regularly performing a sunnah not STARTING a sunnah.
To conclude this section of the article, it must be understood that bida is not only a new invention in the religion claimed to be pleasing to Allah (swt), **but the one who creates and the one who follows bida actually assert that there is some shortcoming in the deen. In reality, they are stating that there is some way to get closer to Allah (swt) and to please Him that is not found in the Quran or the Sunnah of Prophet (saw). That they have found a way to believe or act and to worship Allah that is pleasing to Him and which is BETTER than the way of Prophet (saw). **That this perfect deen of Islam is missing something in it and that is why they are adding something to it or this deen had too much in it and that is why they are taking somethings away. This, in essence, is bida - the concept of a not-so-wholesome deen. [/C&P]
But do you then consider the majority of the Sunnies of the Muslim world to be performing Bid’ah? And what is that status of marriages of the women who remarry after such a divorce? Do you not consider this a much more pertinent and pressing Bid’aa than wearing black in Muharram?
The essence of this is that it was a namaz that used to be done individually at the time of the prophet, was “regulated” afterwards. nobody denies that reading tarawih prayers is a good thing. but you realise that praying in congregation as a group is much different from praying individually. Salafies have very negative views about Quran khwanies. Tell me, why is sitting in a room and reading a chapter of the Quran bad? The act itself is good, however the claim there is that its bid’aa because it wasnt started at the time of the Prophet. why is gathering together of relatives and having biryani bad? Is it not institutionalized…“regulated” hospitality? every argument you’ve made for Tarawih stands for these rituals too, either these are not bid’ah or tarawih is too.
praying in congregation changes the nature of a namaz. That is why congregational prayers have a different significance from furada prayers. that is where your alteration of an established practice comes into the picture, especially because the question of praying in congregation came before the Prophet and he discouraged people from doing so. Had he wished for them to start after his death, he would have said so. You’re extrapolating beyond his words and intentions.
the jama’at form of tarawih, and not the prayer itself is bid’a, or an “innovation”. I fail to understand what they mean by linguistic falana, perhaps you can explain that to me. Most translations I have read of it have translated it “innovation”. isnt that what bid’a is?
) then why object people who are wearing black to remeber darkest part of their history ??
was the first chosen to carry out this great task…