Re: bi-racial relationships
I generally agree with Mabrook...
Im a fob. cant imagine marrying someone from another race/country. can never marry someone who hasn't seen Tanhaayian, Ankahi, etc and doesn't know that Shehnaz Sheikh is the most beautiful woman alive.
and I haven't spent a lot of time in Pakistan and it's been a while since I went back. so, as it is, my connection to Pakistan is pretty weak. can't afford to make it even weaker by marrying a non-Pakistani.
I didn’t mock you but come on its funny when people forget the proverb! I would do that with anyone, and you can find it funny if i write something incorrectly. let it go man. I embrace different opinions, but NOT opinions that favor their own kind over others. I don’t know if you know the meaning of racism. It’s so deeply rooted in our society that we don’t see that its wrong.
You didn’t get my point. I don’t favor biracial relationships over same race ones. All relationships take alot of work. All i said was that theres no guarantee that anything will work. I have seen disasters in so many marriages, even arranged ones. So i just think its unfair to say those marriages are harder because its not. I have seen girls struggling to live with inlaws even if they are their own relatives like in cousin marriages.
For me, it comes back to husband and wife. Inlaws usually do cause problems in many cases but if the couple can put that behind them, it can lead to a succesful marriage.
I generally agree with Mabrook...
Im a fob. cant imagine marrying someone from another race/country. can never marry someone who hasn't seen Tanhaayian, Ankahi, etc and doesn't know that Shehnaz Sheikh is the most beautiful woman alive.
and I haven't spent a lot of time in Pakistan and it's been a while since I went back. so, as it is, my connection to Pakistan is pretty weak. can't afford to make it even weaker by marrying a non-Pakistani.
aah finally aik hum khiyaal ;)
I didn't mock you but come on its funny when people forget the proverb! I would do that with anyone, and you can find it funny if i write something incorrectly. let it go man. I embrace different opinions, but NOT opinions that favor their own kind over others.** I don't know if you know the meaning of racism.** It's so deeply rooted in our society that we don't see that its wrong. You didn't get my point. I don't favor biracial relationships over same race ones. All relationships take alot of work. All i said was that theres no guarantee that anything will work. I have seen disasters in so many marriages, even arranged ones. So i just think its unfair to say those marriages are harder because its not. I have seen girls struggling to live with inlaws even if they are their own relatives like in cousin marriages. For me, it comes back to husband and wife. Inlaws usually do cause problems in many cases but if the couple can put that behind them, it can lead to a succesful marriage.
how old r u tammy? hav u ever been to anywhere outside pak?lived n worked? u'll know wat racism is once u cross ur own country
i hav also been brought out of pak. my mentality is diff from average paki i find. i feel a misfit over there but when it comes to language i just can't live with someone not speaking my language. i'm soo much into urdu that i never talk to my kids in english. i prefer boring, plotless desi movies over even nice english one. its my comfort level. for me i hav to b around ppl from my country or even if they r desis i'm fine as long as they speak my language. i thrive on desi company.
speaking in urdu to your kids, liking desi movies, wanting desi company ... i think everyone has that. there'd be very few, or hardly any who wouldnt want any of these ... but then what does this have to do with your partner? in this post of yours, you're talking about your personal preference ... and i dont see how these can be an issue ...
I generally agree with Mabrook...
Im a fob. cant imagine marrying someone from another race/country. can never marry someone who hasn't seen Tanhaayian, Ankahi, etc and doesn't know that Shehnaz Sheikh is the most beautiful woman alive.
and I haven't spent a lot of time in Pakistan and it's been a while since I went back. so, as it is, my connection to Pakistan is pretty weak. can't afford to make it even weaker by marrying a non-Pakistani.
i am born/raised pakistani. i have worked my way abroad on my own strength and capability. and i dont like calling myself an fob, i dont even consider it applicable, and i hate the use of such derogatory terms.
i dont know how old you are ... but the era of of tanhayiaan etc is the one that i barely touched. another year or two, and i wouldn't even have known them! i dont even remember ankahi ...
besides, i just find these very unpractical reasons to debate against biracialism. how does this make your marriage strong? i am not a drama buff ... but if it is really about finding such things that connect you, then there is music for example ... singing songs which are very universal and everybody has grown up singing them.
all the assets that connect me to my culture (media, daily life, happenings, whatever) ... i feel strongly connected with them because i am an artist, and these things are my driving force. my work revolves around such issues. so i have a whole audience to talk to instead of my husband.
its wonderful how both me and my fiance have a history of different cultures and countries and we can share and discuss the problems and beauties of both, and find the balance. we love talking about these things, and then talking to others about our discoveries.
perhaps for you it is more important to have someone pakistani, because you've been disconnected for so long. and dont want your connection to get any weaker. i dont have that problem.
so the point being, my situation is unique to me, and this biracial deal works for me. your situation is unique for you, and for you it doesnt work out.
but this by NO MEANS qualifies your or my situation valid over one another as a passing factor whether biracialism works or not.
thereby, trying to make an effort through this thread, to generate an acceptance of biracial couples ... because wake up world! it's really working for some!
how old r u tammy? hav u ever been to anywhere outside pak?lived n worked? u'll know wat racism is once u cross ur own country
let's work with the racism in our own country first, and then talk of others.
kaun saaf kerta hai pakistan kay gutter? the poor christian community because muslims feels it is too dirty a job for them, and makes them very unclean for prayer.
who doesnt like their christian maid to eat with them? the muslims of pakistan.
what about the rights of the christian community?
hum b kuch kam nahi hain ... baat sirf itni hai, k hum bahir k issues ko bohat barha charha k batatay hain, while hamara apna mulk bhara para hai aisay issues say ...
aur kyun k bahar we are at the receiving end of racism to bohat takleef hoti hai ... but apnay ghar k andar to hum he racist hain, kisi ko kya kahein? koi aur jo marzi karay, kya zaruri nahi k pehlay hum khud ko theek karein?
how old r u tammy? hav u ever been to anywhere outside pak?lived n worked? u'll know wat racism is once u cross ur own country
Yeah i have lived in America and pakistan. Anyone who says you should stick to your own race is somewhat racist.
But ofcourse in our culture nothing is considered racist at all. I come across racism all the time in pakistani community. People complaining or unhappy about their children or siblings marrying non pakistani people as if non-desis aren't good enough for them.
Re: bi-racial relationships
I think someone who is Pakistani who wants to marry another Pakistani is not necessarily racist. Maybe you just want to pass down certain heritages to your kids.
I would marry a non-Pakistani in a heartbeat, because 90% of these traditions in Pakistani culture are total BS and do more damage than good. I find that Pakistani people are friggin' materialistic and judgemental and unfortunately some of that has probably passed down to me. I can't afford my kids getting those values.
But at the end of the day, I also want to be able to share my enthusiasm about Pakistani dramas, and Pakistani music, and Pakistani history and language with my kids. I know kids growing up with mixed parents who get closer to Pakistan, and then I know kids who get farther from Pakistani culture.
So, yeah, I don't think I'm racist. I just want certain things to be celebrated in my household, and I think with a Pakistani man, that's more likely to happen.
Yeah i have lived in America and pakistan. Anyone who says you should stick to your own race is somewhat racist.
But ofcourse in our culture nothing is considered racist at all. I come across racism all the time in pakistani community. People complaining or unhappy about their children or siblings marrying non pakistani people as if non-desis aren't good enough for them.
then y u say only pakistanis r racists. wat abt rednecks? Americans r no less racists even more so i would say. Britians, americans, Canadians all appear friendly but inside despise each other. Arabs r big time racists. So r malaysians. Pakistanis r very accepting ppl. they r more open hearted than many other races. i hav seen chinese closely. they stick together. they'll ignore u and speak only chinese with another chinese standing nearbyeven though they can speak english, they won't bother.
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yes if mothers want paki bahus they hav their own reasons because they want their traditions going on plus its easy to order abt paki girls ;) also so many aged ladies in our countries don't speak eng. they find it hard to accept a girl they can't even communicate with. my friend's bhabi is gori american. her mom needs a translator to talk to her bahu. so they hardly talk. she ends up talking with her son whole time. bhabi must hav felt ignored by her inlaws.
then y u say only pakistanis r racists. wat abt rednecks? Americans r no less racists even more so i would say. Britians, americans, Canadians all appear friendly but inside despise each other. Arabs r big time racists. So r malaysians. Pakistanis r very accepting ppl. they r more open hearted than many other races. i hav seen chinese closely. they stick together. they'll ignore u and speak only chinese with another chinese standing nearbyeven though they can speak english, they won't bother. . yes if mothers want paki bahus they hav their own reasons because they want their traditions going on plus its easy to order abt paki girls ;) also so many aged ladies in our countries don't speak eng. they find it hard to accept a girl they can't even communicate with. my friend's bhabi is gori american. her mom needs a translator to talk to her bahu. so they hardly talk. she ends up talking with her son whole time. bhabi must hav felt ignored by her inlaws.
I didn't say that ONLY pakis are racists, I said racism is very common amongst them. Red necks are racist but majority of americans DONT support them. If a white person tells his son not to marry a non-white, they usually have the courage to stand up to their parents and call them a racist. I have seen it happen. Pakistanis on the other hand think its okay to be anti biracial marriages.
Re: bi-racial relationships
Aisi baat hoti tu Obama wouldn't b first black president. there would hav been many b4 him. that judge wouldn't hav refused black girl/white guy marriage either saying it would effect kid's future..Also bi-racial marriages were once banned in U.S, not very long ago.
Re: bi-racial relationships
^ yes and that is all WRONG.
Just because its happening in america too doesn't make it right. Biracial marriages were banned so that was WRONG. Atleast majority of Americans are anti racism. pakistanis on the other hand are not even seeing it.
We keep saying "oh its not our culture to marry non pakistanis" or parents wanting a desi bahu thinking she will keep our culture alive.
Why are so many pakistani parents against this inter racial marriage? Because they want to keep their culture pure and there future generation purely pakistani. Thats the main reason behind it.
Re: bi-racial relationships
again ... depends person to person ... and passion to lack-of-passion ... for how things evolve ...
one experience and life cannot dictate the rules to another ...
Re: bi-racial relationships
Americans r changing views coz of immigrants. Its getting more common in West because ppl from around world come to study, work and get interested in each other. Since its not so in Pak, ppl over there are not used to this concept but those families who send kids abroad for work, study face these situations. but time won't stay like this for ever so there's lots of hope for future generations who like u r interested in marrying into other races.
let's work with the racism in our own country first, and then talk of others. kaun saaf kerta hai pakistan kay gutter? the poor christian community because muslims feels it is too dirty a job for them, and makes them very unclean for prayer. who doesnt like their christian maid to eat with them? the muslims of pakistan. what about the rights of the christian community?
hum b kuch kam nahi hain ... baat sirf itni hai, k hum bahir k issues ko bohat barha charha k batatay hain, while hamara apna mulk bhara para hai aisay issues say ... aur kyun k bahar we are at the receiving end of racism to bohat takleef hoti hai ... but apnay ghar k andar to hum he racist hain, kisi ko kya kahein? koi aur jo marzi karay, kya zaruri nahi k pehlay hum khud ko theek karein?
ye her jagah same hai. yehaan canada main mostly kon lower jobs kertay hain? mostly desis. ziada ter taxi kon drive kertay hain? mostly desis. it has nothing to do with racism. it depends on their job ability. ager christians gutter saaf kertay hain tu non-christian massis bhi buhat gheron main hain. jis ko jahan rozi milay wo wahan lag jata ha... ye racism nahi hai.
mera sawal ye hai jub sub he racists hain more or less then y blame only our ppl? humain sirf pakistan aur pakistanioon ko bura kehnay ki aadat si per gayee hai.apnay he gher pe paththar marnay main hum sub se agay hain.
mazay ki baat ye hai k jo log mulk se bahar palay hain wo phir bhi mulk se hamdardi n connection feel kertay hain. per jo wahin ki pod hain wo complex ka shikaar hain. unhain kahin koi unjustice nahin dikhta sirf pak main he dikhta hai.
Re: bi-racial relationships
there is no room or opportunity for bi-racial marriages in Pakistan except for inter-provincial … that is also bi-racial basically.
but like nosherwan pointed out his frustration of being in a multiprovincial-identiy-family …
and because love marriages arent the norm yet … so if a guy brings a girl back home from another country/culture … there will be an opposition .. but perhaps can be overcome … if a girl brings a guy home from another country/culture .. 
and the great aunt in a red tight-fitted shalwar kameez and lipstick asked, “what do you know about Islam?” 
i am not talking about lower jobs due to lack of capability … do examples di hain … k agr christian maasi ho (muslim bhi hoti hain of course) to hum uskay saath acha behave nahi kertay … uskay saath khana khanay say ya bartan share kernay say katraatay hain … kyun k wo christian hai … not because she is poor.
aur haan … the world is quite racist. it’s not just pakistan. but the problem is k hum bohat door agayay hain … zaruri hai k apni mistakes ko ab realise ker lain. khud per thoray pathar maar lein … bajaye is k k sirf doosroun ko maarein … aur shayad kuch behtri k taraf chal parein …
but as for what ive made bold in your post … please mujhay batao k pakistan ki kis cheez say unko pyaar hai? pakistani dramay? shaadioun ka style? kapra latta? what about the people yaar? tumko andaza nahi mabrook k bahar anay k baad jab mujhay pata chala k kitni nafrat hai pakistanious aur bahar rehnay walay pakistanioun k darmyan to mujhay kitna shock laga … kitna bura laga mujhay … mujhay to andaza he nahi tha k ye kuch ho raha hai 
:no: … baqi threads he khol lo … life1 mein jahaan pakistani larkiyon ko bura bhala kaha ja raha hai …
jo banda jis tarha behave kerta hai na … that is a result for whatever he/she has been exposed to in life. zindagi mein bura experience b hota hai aur acha bhi … agr sab sirf acha acha acha hota … to kya hum already jannat mein na hotay?
but i agree k bura ab kuch ziada ho gya hai …
shortcuts suck and make life hell.
i am born/raised pakistani. i have worked my way abroad on my own strength and capability. and i dont like calling myself an fob, i dont even consider it applicable, and i hate the use of such derogatory terms.
I didn't mean fob in a derogatory way. only point is that I'm not an abcd, etc. I wasn't born in Canada. I meant it for myself anyway. didn`t meant to insult you or anyone else.
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i dont know how old you are ... but the era of of tanhayiaan etc is the one that i barely touched. another year or two, and i wouldn't even have known them! i dont even remember ankahi ...
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I'm not a dinosaur. my point wasn`t so much about these specific Pak dramas as it was about Pakistani culture.... and needing a general awareness of it. I would want to have some of these things in common with my spouse. I would want her to understand why I love (and hate) Pak cricket so much. what the 92 world cup meant to our nation. why Imran Khan is a king among men. how great Tina Sani, Nayyara Noor are. the importance of Vital Signs. etc etc... only a Pakistani could appreciate that.
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besides, i just find these very unpractical reasons to debate against biracialism. how does this make your marriage strong? i am not a drama buff ... but if it is really about finding such things that connect you, then there is music for example ... singing songs which are very universal and everybody has grown up singing them.
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I don't see how by saying that I would only marry a Pakistani it becomes an argument against biracialism (is that a real word?). interracial marriages are certainly no silver bullet for ending racism and bias. and just because a person marries a person from another race doesn't mean that the person becomes an angel.
I worked with a caucasian who was married to an asian and by all accounts was an extremely open-minded person. I loved working with him and still consider him friend. no one could say that the guy had an iota of bias in him. and yet he made a comment against jews one day which wasn't the worst thing I've heard but it was certainly close what you hear in Pakistani circles about them.
either way, I don't think I'm a racist. I certainly do have biases. so, maybe I'm... I definitely am nationalist/ethnocentric though. when you grow up in other countries, you become more attached to your country and identity especially when it is under attack almost all the time. it doesn't mean that I believe that all Pakistani customs and traditions make sense. of course, not. but the identity is very important to me.
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so the point being, my situation is unique to me, and this biracial deal works for me. your situation is unique for you, and for you it doesnt work out.
but this by NO MEANS qualifies your or my situation valid over one another as a passing factor whether biracialism works or not.
thereby, trying to make an effort through this thread, to generate an acceptance of biracial couples ... because wake up world! it's really working for some!
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I didn't imply that since my preference is to marry a Pakistan, interracial marriages don't work. hey if it works for you, more power to you. George and Kiran make a lovely couple. George seems like a wonderful person. so, if you're going to be the next George and Kiran, good for you. :)
still imo, it's difficult enough to make a marriage work with people who come from the same culture. different cultures would just be another hurdle. I'm a conservative person and this experiment is not for me. as it is, if I had to prioritize, Shia-Sunni marriages and interprovincial marriages would be higher on my priority list than an interracial marriage.
Re: bi-racial relationships
it's not an inter/same-cultural/racial/religious couple that doesnt work out .. it's 2 people at a human level who cant work with each other, who fail :)
and i didnt say you are against such marriages ... giving my pov only ...
p.s. biracialism is not a word, just avoiding to type several words :D
Re: bi-racial relationships
i have watched Ankhai, tanhaiaan several times myself even Uncle Urfi but that doesn't show anybody's age. so many old classics get repeated on TV.
Also i agree that just by promoting bi-racial marriages racism will not disappear.
Farrah majority ppl in pak doesn't like to giv their maids same treatment as their families. its our mentality. even here i was talking to few friendz abt getting myself a full time nanny for my kids. i said"i don't hav a spare room and they demand that. here comes my prob" Now one who was Arab said" i'll never like a maid sleeping in same room with my kids" Others agreed and we were a mixed group.