Re: bi-racial relationships
deleted
What ethnicity did you marry and is he Muslim? If you don't mind me askin.
If your hubby is a Muslim then with all due respect to your brother he is being a retard.
Who cares about ethnicity and caste and crap? At the end of the day ethnicity just boils down to two differences, that's language and looks, it would be boring if we all spoke the same language and looked the same, Islam is all that matters.
Mxed race kids are gorgeous coz they inherit the prettiness of both races, like pretty features from one side and nice skin from the other.
It's like I'm Punjabi-Pashtun and I find Pashtuns have nice hair but Punjabis have sexier features.
I live in the north (though not a predominanatly Paki area) and mixed marriages are quite common up here.
I know a Pashtun girl married to a black brother, so it does happen.
The most mixed Paki marriages I've seen are Paki/Arab (north African).
Muslim Ummah is so kool, such a melting pot of different cultures.
He's white English (but looks darkish like Ronaldo) and yeah, he's converted. No-one asked him to become Muslim, he did it off his own back after we met, all the reading up and everything himself which of course made me like him even more.
I remember when I was really young one of my cousins married an English lad and this was going back years and years when it was v.uncommon, the stuff she had to go thru with so-called 'friends' of the family was awful, ppl who didn't know she was my cousin would come up to me and slag her off. Nobody apart from my brother has said one negative thing to me or my parents about the boy I'm with now (nearly all my parents' friends have at least one kid themselves who has 'married out') and yeah, ur right about my brother, he is being a retard. My family is mixed with others (the biggest portion being Bengali) so we aren't ethnically 'pure' anyway which makes the situation even more bizarre.
hahaha .. thanks 
…
he chose to fly to pakistan on the hottest day of that summer .. was 47 degrees that day! his flight was one hour late … immediately nothing happened for me … he looked very tired … had a 22 hour flight (although for him he said it was perfect) .. the first two days he lived with a friend of mine … so when i went back to him in the evening to have lunch together .. then i guess it was sparks everywhere 
D … after 2 days he shifted with me and my family to stay with us … and i guess that whatever was happening was quite obvious since my father even had to ask us if he needed to know anything … 
This is in fact precisely the mindset that i am working with in my thesis. its sad that it is so … since when you’re living together with another culture, it is impossible for these things to not happen … call it part of the package.
But do tell me … it’s quite common for mixed marriages, but in your opinion .. what is the percentage of people who think like your brother?
He's white English (but looks darkish like Ronaldo) and yeah, he's converted. No-one asked him to become Muslim, he did it off his own back after we met, all the reading up and everything himself which of course made me like him even more.
I remember when I was really young one of my cousins married an English lad and this was going back years and years when it was v.uncommon, the stuff she had to go thru with so-called 'friends' of the family was awful, ppl who didn't know she was my cousin would come up to me and slag her off. Nobody apart from my brother has said one negative thing to me or my parents about the boy I'm with now (nearly all my parents' friends have at least one kid themselves who has 'married out')
Masha Allah sis that's well cute, wish u both the very best.
He's a Muslim and that's all that matters. Allah aint gonna ask us whether we spoke Punjabi or Spanish, these things seize to matter when we die, this life is only temporary anyway, we'll leave all our superficial identities behind us but we'll need Islam in the next eternal life.
Is your other half of Medditeranean descent? Medditerenean people are well hot. Bengalis are hot too, they have the nicest eyes and the nicest hair ever.
It's sad that your brother thinks the way he does, it's wrong and not justified but I think I know the reason why...
We boys are pack animals, we need a group to identity with, whether that's country, geographical-location, skin-color, caste, gang or football team...
We lads need something to give us belonging, identity and security.
We need something to be nationalistic about and proud of or life starts feeling purposeless and hollow.
Your brother probably sees 'his group' as fellow South-Asians, for other people it will be just their own countrymen whether that be Paki or Bengali...
When your brother is with "his boyz" he sees them as his family, his people, they stand up for each other, fight for each other, togather they hate on others different from themselves and others hate on them...
He wants himself and his family to identify with his own group, when his sister marries someone outside his people (South-Asians in his case) he starts seeing her as a traitor, not only that but his group wouldn't approve of it and it'd be like being stuck between a hard place and a rock for him (does he pick his sister or his group?), he probably also feels shamed and dishonored, just as back in Pakistan for the elders it was all about marrying in the right caste or people will talk, in this country caste is unimportant because most people in our generation don't even know what acaste is but they do know the difference between brown and white and they strongly identify with their group and don't approve of anyone who marries outside that group or anyone who has a family member who does so.
I once knew a gora, chav type from a racist area, we would link up as mates but he was always careful not to be seen with me by his white mates, not because he was racist himself but because his own loyalty to his group would be in question.
I know an Irish man who didn't speak to his sis all his life because she married an Englishman.
I know the feeling of wanting oneself and ones family to belong because I'm a Pashtun-Punjabi hybrid...
When Punjabis called Pathans naswarkhor I'd get angry at them and when Pathans called Punjabis dalkhors I'd get angry at them...
I had a hardtime being accepted as a true Pathan by my paternal cousins because of my maternal family...
...For a while it gave me an inferiority complex and I started being racist to Punjabis just to fit in, I had to pick a side, I use to tell my siblings that we're all going to marry Pathans because we are dobi ke kuttey and we need to take a side, my siblings thought I was being a retard... But my retarted opinions have changed now because of Islam and I ended up marrying a Punjabi who I love, whilst my siblings who were more Punjabified than me married Pathans.
It all boils down to partianship/nationalism and there is a very thin line between partianship/nationalism and racism.
Partianship is innate, it's human nature. Islam recognises this human nature but gives a positive alternative, the Ummah to identify with based on common religion which is universal and welcoming of all rather than the exclusive/racist partianships/nationalism based on land, geograhy, race, color, language etc.
If we all started putting more importance on being Muslim rather than Desi, kaala, gora, etc. life would be bliss.
Re: bi-racial relationships
^ i really like what you've written nosherwan! love to read things about human nature!
Re: bi-racial relationships
741 views! that means there are more people interested in the topic, but are not saying anything because they:
- have a viewpoint on either side of extremity, thereby avoiding to comment at all
- are too shy to share experiences
- or just think it's utter bull****
- maybe some positive point as well which i cant think of right now ...
would like to have more opinions on it though!
perhaps it can be shifted to the life and relationships section please? :@:
Re: bi-racial relationships
Cant say anything as i dont know anything of this sort :D
^ but you must have a view point :) ..
do you think it's right or wrong? and about the inequality towards a paki girl marrying a non-paki/non-muslim and a paki man marrying a non-paki/non-muslim ...
would you consider being in such a relationship if it came your way?
Re: bi-racial relationships
Gowing well, Good debate
It is an important issue , first time being discussed in good tone
Re: bi-racial relationships
^ i was also surprised at how decent the talk turned out to be … was expecting a bit more heated conversation 
It's sad that your brother thinks the way he does, it's wrong and not justified but I think I know the reason why...
We boys are pack animals, we need a group to identity with, whether that's country, geographical-location, skin-color, caste, gang or football team...
We lads need something to give us belonging, identity and security.
We need something to be nationalistic about and proud of or life starts feeling purposeless and hollow.
Your brother probably sees 'his group' as fellow South-Asians, for other people it will be just their own countrymen whether that be Paki or Bengali...
When your brother is with "his boyz" he sees them as his family, his people, they stand up for each other, fight for each other, togather they hate on others different from themselves and others hate on them...
He wants himself and his family to identify with his own group, when his sister marries someone outside his people (South-Asians in his case) he starts seeing her as a traitor, not only that but his group wouldn't approve of it and it'd be like being stuck between a hard place and a rock for him (does he pick his sister or his group?), he probably also feels shamed and dishonored, just as back in Pakistan for the elders it was all about marrying in the right caste or people will talk, in this country caste is unimportant because most people in our generation don't even know what acaste is but they do know the difference between brown and white and they strongly identify with their group and don't approve of anyone who marries outside that group or anyone who has a family member who does so.
I once knew a gora, chav type from a racist area, we would link up as mates but he was always careful not to be seen with me by his white mates, not because he was racist himself but because his own loyalty to his group would be in question.
I know an Irish man who didn't speak to his sis all his life because she married an Englishman.
I know the feeling of wanting oneself and ones family to belong because I'm a Pashtun-Punjabi hybrid...
When Punjabis called Pathans naswarkhor I'd get angry at them and when Pathans called Punjabis dalkhors I'd get angry at them...
I had a hardtime being accepted as a true Pathan by my paternal cousins because of my maternal family...
...For a while it gave me an inferiority complex and I started being racist to Punjabis just to fit in, I had to pick a side, I use to tell my siblings that we're all going to marry Pathans because we are dobi ke kuttey and we need to take a side, my siblings thought I was being a retard... But my retarted opinions have changed now because of Islam and I ended up marrying a Punjabi who I love, whilst my siblings who were more Punjabified than me married Pathans.
It all boils down to partianship/nationalism and there is a very thin line between partianship/nationalism and racism.
Partianship is innate, it's human nature. Islam recognises this human nature but gives a positive alternative, the Ummah to identify with based on common religion which is universal and welcoming of all rather than the exclusive/racist partianships/nationalism based on land, geograhy, race, color, language etc.
If we all started putting more importance on being Muslim rather than Desi, kaala, gora, etc. life would be bliss.
Mashallah! What a beautiful and thoughtful post .....
what do you think of bi-racial relationships?
what do pakistanis abroad think about a pakistani going out with a guy/girl of whatever other country you're living in?
this includes Pakistanis from every strata of Pakistan, not talking of any specific class/region. there is every sort of very-closed-minded / closed-minded / open-minded family. what's the larger perception of this situation?
how many of you are in a bi-racial relationship, or know someone who is in one? what are their issues? what problems do they face? what are the positive aspects of them being together?
Most pakistani parents i have met or seen are totally against this idea of their children marrying non-pakis/desis.
Surprisingly, even many so called "broad-minded" people who have no problems drinking in parties even tell their kids to choose a pakistani spouse for themselves.
I havn't been in a realtionship with non pakistani but I have seen plenty of my friends who have been and most of them had to either end it or go agains their parents will.
I think its racist to be against this concept of bi-racial relationships. Racism is so deeply rooted in our culture and society that no one even points it out. No one calls their parents racist even when they clearly are wrong.
Re: bi-racial relationships
^ yes tammy, it’s quite an important point of how racist we ourselves are being Muslims. i was waiting for someone to say that no it is not accepted, like you did. in every other forum, people have mostly shown their lenient side and voted for bi-racial marriages … but whether or not they’d accept one in real life, is an entirely separate issue. if everyone is ok with it, then where is the majority who isnt ok with it???
I was just doing a bit of looking around, and landed on this fact that Muhammad Ali Jinnah can be called the first Pakistani … and though his first wife died within three months of their marriage that took place way before the idea of pakistan was even there … his ultimate wife happened to be a Parsi convert woman. Whether she really was a convert or not is another issue, because his daughter Dina, her religious training was done by Fatima Jinnah. And Rattanbai (Jinnah’s wife) had completely lost connection with her parsi community after her marriage to jinnah, and if she was converted, i dont understand how Dina ended up being a rebel and marrying a parsi boy and becoming part of a parsi community? or was it some wicked plan 
Re: bi-racial relationships
Actually I have a bi-racial family. I am a Pakistani (for most part since I grew up there though I am US born) and my wife is Arabic.
My parents and my wife's parents never really objected to our marriage probably because both the inlaws had been exposed to living in US society and were still somewhat used to be in different nationalities or ethnicities.
However I have found, the Pakistani community to be quite prejudiced and less accepting of other nationalities especially Arab. I have found Pakistani's have a mindset to give Arabic people a bad names as if they alone are responsible for diluting the religion or other vices for muslim people yet Pakistani's chose to stay ignorant or in self-denial about their own shortcomings. Pakistani women are most atrocious and ill-mannered especially those who were raised in Pakistan and live here.
The basic difference I have at least faced where I live, if that Arabic people are happy when they come to know that I am married to an Arab and they welcome me. Pakistani's on the other hand view me as some kind of outcast.
I have nothing against Pakistani's as I call myself one but the truth is they are not used to mingling with other nationalities or accepting of them either beyond the extent of what we call Alaik Salaik. I have found the Arabic crowd to be much more hospitable. Ofcourse there are bad eggs there as well but in comparison there are way too many in the Pakistani community when it comes to acceptance of other muslims.
Re: bi-racial relationships
^Arabs are generally very friendly people mashallah....especially from misar and marakesh and iraq.
the more i read about it, talk about it … the more sad it makes me feel that it really is a general defect with pakistanis .. of having lack of acceptance. i was writing my article about it … it really just all makes sense. we are too concerned about details of others cuz we have nothing better to do. we are too scared to look into a mirror. kuch b ho jaye, instead of acting calm, and being a little patient, forun marnay maranay per utar atay hein … jo hum hein, hum khud responsible hain, doosroun ko kyun bura bhala kehtay hain …
and USResident … everytime someone said k pakistani girls are so atrocious and ill-mannered … i really would get angry, cuz i am also pakistani … not born or raised abroad. in fact it’s only been a year that iv been abroad, that too for my masters. but ye b sach hai k pakistanis abroad arent any less. wo b Allah mian nay chun chun k bhejay hain … sach yehi hai k majority aisay he hai … achay log b hain … mein b to houn 
… but do chaar log dont define an entire nation or community … warna itna bura naam na hota …
dont know about marakesh .. but my brother-in-law-to-be is egyptian .. and he is such a soft spoken and humble guy, it’s insane! the first times that i met him … i was so surprised, not that i expected him to be rude or vicious … but i’ve never seen him very energetic or enthusiastic … you know jis tarha pakistanioun mein aik damn josh aur jazba ajata hai .. and everybody starts being loud and cracking jokes … wo jokes sunanay mein b itna humble hai 
…
and the only iraqi iv met are when i go to an iraqi restaurant .. they really are very hospitable … you can see that …
the more i read about it, talk about it ... the more sad it makes me feel that it really is a general defect with pakistanis .. of having lack of acceptance. i was writing my article about it ... it really just all makes sense. we are too concerned about details of others cuz we have nothing better to do. we are too scared to look into a mirror. kuch b ho jaye, instead of acting calm, and being a little patient, forun marnay maranay per utar atay hein ... jo hum hein, hum khud responsible hain, doosroun ko kyun bura bhala kehtay hain ...
and USResident ... everytime someone said k pakistani girls are so atrocious and ill-mannered ... i really would get angry, cuz i am also pakistani ... not born or raised abroad. in fact it's only been a year that iv been abroad, that too for my masters. but ye b sach hai k pakistanis abroad arent any less. wo b Allah mian nay chun chun k bhejay hain ... sach yehi hai k majority aisay he hai ... achay log b hain ... mein b to houn :@: ... but do chaar log dont define an entire nation or community ... warna itna bura naam na hota ....
U know a lot of it has to do with the environment people grow up in, insecurity plays a great role as well. Instead of fixing problems that Pakistani people possess, they tend to avoid even addressing it by moving in a tight circle which is all Pakistani. When all are alike there is nothing to change or complain about.
Chalain sub log to aap jaisay nahi hotay lakin mein aap ko aik baat bolon, infiraadi tor per Pakistani bhi acha behavior ikhtiyaar kartay hain or karsaktay hein, ijtimaai tor per wo bhol jaatay hein in cheezon ko. For instance, if I invite just a single family to my house they will ofcourse chit chat with my wife however in a group they forget that they even know her. Same people who are so friendly to you otherwise. Whats even more sad is that they don't even care.
I remember one day I was invited to one of my friends house, they are Pakistani and he is one of my oldest friends. They had invited another family. We guys were separate and the women separate. We must have been there at least 3 hours or so and I swear the other Auntie did not even say one word to my wife the whole 3 hours. Not a single word. I have small kids, she could have just used them as an excuse to say something like Mashallah! this and that but not even that. She was so snug. And this is a lady whose kids grew up here in USA and she has been here for at least 20-25 years I would say. The reason probanly because they never socialized outside of a Pakistani circle.
Re: bi-racial relationships
I think desi parents are ok with bi-racial relationships as long as the girl/guy you are marrying is lighter skin tone than you.
So Arabs, Whites, Pakistanis of a different caste but are fair skinned are ok.
If you marry someone who is dark skinned like Blacks, Bengalis, Tamils, then that is frowned upon.
One of my cousins in England married a Black Doctor. He is the nicest guy I have ever met but uncle and aunt don't speak to their daughter.
I think its more of an issue that the children need to resemble their parents or be more fair skinned.
In Pakistan specially, dark skin is considered ugly.
Re: bi-racial relationships
Thats really sad merc. Some of the most attractive people on the planet have dark complexions and we whiteys give ourselves skin cancer in pursuit of that "savage tan". In my younger days, I'd slather meself with baby oil and iodine and bake under the noon sun, turn as brown as a coffee bean and be so very proud of it.
I think the dark-n-mysterious types are SO much more attractive than the frog-belly-white types.
But either way, love what you have, love what you are and that by far will make you attractive to everyone you meet.