:salam2:
Can a believer (a Muslim) ask forgiveness of Almighty Allah for a non-believer (polytheist) even though the non-believer (polytheist) is believer’s kin?
If your answer is ‘Yes’, then please put forward your ‘Yes’ with supporting references
and
In case if your answer is ‘No’, then also please put forward your ‘No’ with supporting references.
**Supporting references = Holy Quran and/or Hadith.
**
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
From my understanding ... a believer can (not as habit but as exception, especially for those who are near). Reason:
1: What Prophets (AS) did, all believers can.
2: Even though a person could be non-believer. we do not know in what state a person died, so we can.
3: A person should never leave hope from Allah and his forgiveness (leaving hope is kufr ... and not having hope even when asking for impossibility from Allah, is also kufr). Same can be said about prayer of forgiveness for someone a person thinks died as non-believer.
4: Many people are Muslims by name without belief. These people are Muslims as far as other Muslims are concerned, as they confess they are Muslims, but in front of Allah they are not. Same way many people are non-Muslims by name though they believe on Allah. These people are Kafir as far as Muslims are concerned (unless we have reason to believe they are not), because they confess that they are unbelievers, but in front of Allah they are believers. So one can pray for anyone, and leave the matter to Allah.
What would be results of those prayers?
Allah in Quran says that he would not accept prayers of forgiveness for those who are Kafirs (unbelievers). But then, Allah has also said in Quran that he can do whatever he likes, as he is above everything, and that he is most forgiving and merciful. Prophet (SAW) said that on judgment day, mercy of Allah would overshadow everything. In Quran Allah says that he gains nothing from punishing anyone.
Even though Allah says that he would not forgive a kafir, we do not know extends of his mercy or value of our prayers.
So, it is no harm in praying for anyone, and just like any prayers of forgiveness, we leave acceptance of that prayers on mercy of Allah.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Peace brother sa1eem,
for your input. Lets see what other will share in support of their ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. 
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
As far as i know we can pray for their guidance but not for their forgiveness. The Quran says “It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to pray for the forgiveness of the polytheists, even though they may be near kin (to them) after it has become clear them that they are the people of Hell.” (Al-Tawbah: 113)
At another place Quran says “And do not pray [the funeral prayer, O Muhammad], over any of them who has died - ever - or stand at his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and died while they were defiantly disobedient.” (Al-Tawbah: 9:84)
So would a muslim even bother going against Quran…
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
This is my view too …
Wasalam to all
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Sister, both ayahs are about asking forgiveness of those who died. So, praying for their guidance is immaterial, as it is useless for soul to get guidance after death.
As for praying for their forgiveness after their death:
Ayah 9:84 is about Munafaqeens.
Ayah 9:113 is about Mushrakeen.
Important message in this ayah 9:113 is … ‘’after it has become clear about them that they are the people of Hell.” … Now, tell me how it could become clear to anyone, that the person who died is surely a hell dweller?
It is obvious that if we know for certain that one died is of hell-dweller regardless of anything one can do for them, than praying for their forgiveness is (in theory) meaningless … as one is praying against what Allah has already decided to do.
Prophets get wahi so they may know. Believers who are Saints may get ilham and thus may know, but what about Muslims in general?
How we know with certainty that person died, especially who is close to us and we wish or like to see best in them, is surely a hell-dweller (regardless of anything)?
I wrote above (post 2) that … we do not know the state of a person’s belief at the time of death, because we do not know belief of a person in their heart, or in what belief that person died (as he could have changed his belief even a second before death). So, it is best to hope for the best, and assume that dead person may have died with belief on Allah, so one can pray … leaving rest on Allah and his mercy.
Second: whatever the situation, if one loves someone, one should not leave hope of mercy from Allah for them (however odd that seems). When one prays for something, however odd, then it is not necessary that prayer would be fulfilled, but one thing is certain, that praying with hope and belief has its own rewards. Hoping for mercy and forgiveness from Allah, for oneself and for anyone close, regardless of all odds and however desperate situation maybe, is belief itself and form of worship.
I believe we can and here is my reference (please remember that his faster was not just an idol worshipper, but idol carver)
Duane of Ibrahim(Abraham (A.S) for forgiveness for his parents:
رَبَّنَا اغْفِرْ لِي وَلِوَالِدَيَّ وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَوْمَ يَقُومُ الْحِسَابُ (14:41)
Rabbana ighfir lee waliwalidayya walilmumineena yawma yaqoomu alhisabu
"Our Lord! Forgive me and my parents, and (all) the believers on the Day when the reckoning will be established."
Al-Qur'an, 14.041 (Ibrahim[Abraham])
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
I believe we can and here is my reference (please remember that his faster was not just an idol worshipper, but idol carver)
Duane of Ibrahim(Abraham (A.S) for forgiveness for his parents:
رَبَّنَا اغْفِرْ لِي وَلِوَالِدَيَّ وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَوْمَ يَقُومُ الْحِسَابُ (14:41)
Rabbana ighfir lee waliwalidayya walilmumineena yawma yaqoomu alhisabu
"Our Lord! Forgive me and my parents, and (all) the believers on the Day when the reckoning will be established." Al-Qur'an, 14.041 (Ibrahim[Abraham])
Peace bro TLK
There is a tradition that suggests none of the family line of RasoolAllah (SAW) including the prophet Ibrahim (AS)'s family were ever polytheists. The evidence is from the linguistic Arabic ... Father has two words ... Walid and Ab ... Walid is the natural father and Ab is any male in the position of authority over a person.
It is for this reason that many people say the man who made the idols and raised Ibrahim (AS) was an uncle or guardian and not the natural father.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
The following verses confirm TLK’s stance on the issue:
Bible also confirms that Ibrahim(as)'s father was idol worshiper. The name mentioned is different i.e, Terrah but rest of the description about his faith is the same. ‘Abihi’ is mostly translated as ‘his father’ the obvious meanings.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Peace bro TLK
There is a tradition that suggests none of the family line of RasoolAllah (SAW) including the prophet Ibrahim (AS)'s family were ever polytheists. The evidence is from the linguistic Arabic ... Father has two words ... Walid and Ab ... Walid is the natural father and Ab is any male in the position of authority over a person.
It is for this reason that many people say the man who made the idols and raised Ibrahim (AS) was an uncle or guardian and not the natural father.
Brother, what you wrote is Muslim Aqeedah.
It is believed that the person (Azar) who used to make idol only raised Ibrahim (AS) as guardian or uncle … and he was not biological father of Ibrahim (AS). It seems obvious from Ayah 19:46 … that the way ‘Azar’ addresses Ibrahim (AS), shows he had no fatherly feeling for Ibrahim (AS) and could not be his father. No biological father would tell his biological son that 'I would stone you' ... and that 'to leave me forever' (get away from me for a good long while). At most (normally), biological father would rebuke and then try to convince their children, but unlikely that they would disown or renounce them. As you wrote, the word used for Father (Ab) in ayah 19:45 can be used for uncle or guardian too.
19:45 … "O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (Allah) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend."
19:46… (The father) replied: "Dost thou hate my gods, O Abraham? If thou forbear not, I will indeed stone thee: Now get away from me for a good long while!"
Anyhow … Muslim believe is that Ruh (seed or name) of entire mankind was on the shoulder of Adam (AS) and then it kept coming down generation after generation until a person is born. When Ruh of a pious person or Prophet (AS) is on the shoulder of their ancestors than their presence (connection) affects the character and beliefs of their ancestors too.
Ruh of Prophet (SAW) was on the shoulder of Adam (AS) and from their onward, it passed from one generation to next, until time Prophet (SAW) was born … and thus all ancestors of Prophet (SAW) were pious, did no shirk (were believers … whom we also call Hanif), and never committed adultery or any big sins.
Since biological father of Ibrahim (AS) was also ancestor of Prophet (SAW), it is Muslim's belief that he could not have done shirk ... hence, it is believed that 'Azar' mentioned in Quran must be Ibrahim (AS) uncle or guardian.
Hadith on the subject are numerous. There are also ayahs in Quran that is interpreted to support this belief.
Hadiths:
From Abu Huraira (ra) ... Prophet (SAW) said, "I have been sent from the best generations of the sons of Adam, one after the other, until I reached the one I am in." (Sahi Bukhari)
From Ali (RA) … Prophet (SAW) said, "I came forth from marriage, I did not come from fornication. From Adam until I was born to my father and mother, nothing of the fornication or ignorance has touched me."
From Ibn Abbas (RA) … Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said, "My parents never committed fornication. Allah kept moving me from the good loins to the pure wombs, purified and refined. Whenever there were two ways to go, I was in the best of them."
Quran: Surah 26 ... Ayah 215 - 220: Here, Allah is addressing Prophet (SAW):
And lower thy wing to the Believers who follow thee.
Then if they disobey thee, say: "I am free (of responsibility) for what ye do!"
And put thy trust on the Exalted in Might, the Merciful,-
Who seeth thee standing forth (in prayer),
And thy movements among those who prostrate themselves,
For it is He Who heareth and knoweth all things.
In above ayahs …
26:219 …: And thy movements among those who prostrate themselves,
Movement of Prophet (SAW) represents passing of Prophet (SAW) Ruh (Soul) from the shoulder of Adam (AS) onward, from one generation to next, until time Prophet (SAW) was born … and they [ancestors of prophet (SAW)] were those who all prostrated themselves to Allah.
Citing above belief, many Muslim (Sunni) Scholars have declared that anyone who believes that prophet (SAW) parents or ancestors were unbelievers, are infidels.
Further, referring to the ayah below:
33:57 … Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment.
There are scholars who think that if anyone believes or says that any of Prophet (SAW) ancestors were unbelievers, than these people annoy Prophet (SAW) and thus are cursed in the sight of Allah, and humiliating punishment awaits them.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
^ please correct the reference. it is 19:45-46 not 16:45-46
btw you said "Brother, what you wrote is Muslim Aqeedah. "
**
Do the people who have translated as “O my father” have been kicked out of the fold of Islam by you??**
[TABLE=“class: ayat1”]
O my father! I dread lest a chastisement from the Most Gracious befall thee, and then thou wilt become [aware of having been] close unto Satan!"
O my father! Lo! I fear lest a punishment from the Beneficent overtake thee so that thou become a comrade of the devil.
O my father! surely I fear that a punishment from the Beneficent Allah should afflict you so that you should be a friend of the Shaitan.
“O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (Allah) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend.”
“O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (God) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend.”
O my father! Truly, I fear that a punishment should afflict thee from The Merciful so that thou become a protector of Satan.
Father, indeed I fear lest a punishment from the Gracious One afflict you, and you become a friend of Satan.
My father, I fear lest some torment from the Mercy-giving should afflict you, and you become a partisan of Satan."
[Al-Muntakhab]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/5948240118?ie=UTF8&tag=islamawakened-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=5948240118)
“O father”, he added, “I have an uneasy sense of the probability of a retributive punishment which might be assigned to you from AL-Rahman in requital of your submission to AL-Shaytan, and that shall bring you closer to him in alliance and intimacy”.
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition)](The Message - A Translation of the Glorious Qur'an: Group, The Monotheist: 9780979671524: Amazon.com: Books)
“My father, I fear that a retribution will inflict you from the Almighty and that you will become an ally to the devil.”
Father, I fear that a punishment from the Lord of Mercy may afflict you and that you may become Satan’s companion [in Hell].’
O My father! verily I fear that there may touch thee a torment from the Compassionate so that thou become to the Satan a companin.
O my father, I fear lest a punishment from Ar-Rahman should befall you, and you should become a friend of the Devil."
Father, I am afraid that a punishment from the All-Merciful will afflict you, and turn you into a comrade of Shaytan.´
“O my father! I am fearful lest a punishment from the All-Merciful befall you, and then you will become a close friend of Satan (and an instrument in his hand).”
Father! I am indeed afraid that a punishment from the All-beneficent will befall you, and you will become Satan’s accomplice.’
“O my Sire! Verily, I fear that there may afflict you punishment from the Beneficent One, and that you may be a comrade (or client) of Satan.”
O my Father, surely I fear that (some) torment from The All-Merciful will touch you, so that you become a patron to Ash-Shaytan."
Father, I am afraid that the Beneficent God’s torment will strike you and you will become a friend of satan."
My dear father, I fear lest a punishment from the All- Merciful (Allah) should afflict you, and you become a companion of Satan.
“O My father! I am afraid that a retribution from (the Law of) the Beneficent might overtake you, and you be counted among the friends of Satan.”
“O my father! Surely, I fear that a penalty fall on you from (Allah) Most Gracious (Rahman), so that you will become a friend of Satan.”
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Peace kchughtai
By giving a translation of one verse multiple times does not add anything. If I were to translate the ayah I too would translate “Ab as father” …
However, Ab does not mean necessarily the physical biological father.
Anyone named “Abu Huraira” or “Abu Bakr” would have a huge problem
Jewish community call God - Father as in Ab …
But the term Walid - is specific … it is connected to the term mawlid - which is birth …
Don’t you find it particularly interesting that when Ibrahim (AS) prays for his parents the word used is “Walidayni” when it could have easily said … “Abaani”
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
walidayni is for both parents. 'ab' derivatives have been used for father. It is also evident from the way Ibrahim (as) addresses Azar. Yes father has been used for Allah (btw, do we have any evidence in Quran where 'ab' has been used for God.?) but for uncle or master, I don't think 'ab' here signifies any such person.
We should have a real good reason based on good source to think otherwise.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Brother, thanks for pointing out my mistake, that I corrected.
Anyhow, coming to topic, you are right that in all translations of Quran, when referring to Ibrahim (AS) addressing Azar, word Father is used.
But does it matter … or anyone using ‘Father’ in their translation also believed that Azar was biological father of Ibrahim (AS)?
And even if some ignorantly believed that Azar was biological father of Ibrahim (AS), does it mean they had correct belief?
When Ayah 26:219 and various hadiths say that ancestors of Prophet (SAW) were all people of Iman, people who were pure and never did any wrong … then how father of Ibrahim (AS) who was also ancestor of Prophet (SAW) could be idol worshipper?
Let look at translation of some other ayahs.
From above ayahs, it is obvious that Allah as well as Noah (AS) saying that the one referred was son of Noah (AS). So, does it mean sons are not part of a person’s family?
In above ayah (11:46), Allah told Noah (AS) that one left out is not his family, but our belief is that he was son of Noah (AS) and part of his family. So, is having belief that one left out was son of Noah (AS) and part of Noah (AS) family, wrong belief?
Answer is obvious, that Noah (AS) was talking about his son who is part of his (AS) family. But in ayah 11:46, family member mentioned by Allah is not about biological family member, but unworthy family member (a family member, whose conduct is unrighteous), and thus being unworthy family member, he is declared as not a family member … or ‘not a (worthy) family member’.
Important to note is that, Noah (AS) called his son member of his family and Allah says that he is not member of your family … but for Muslim, both statements are right, one referring to biological family member and other referring to ousted family member because he was unrighteous (or not worthy family member).
In same way, Azar is referred as Father in Ayah as one who raised Ibrahim (AS) because he was uncle or guardian … but it is Muslim’s belief that Azar was not biological father of Ibrahim (AS) … both statements are right.
Let see another Ayah where relationship is used in similar way … referring to Maryam (AS) relationship with Harun (AS).
Ayah 19:28: “O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!”
Even though Quran says that Maryam (AS) was sister of Aaron, we Muslims do not believe that Maryam (AS) had any brother ‘Aaron’ or that she was sister of Aaron (Haroon), rather we believe that Maryam (AS) was from the family of Harum (AS), and when she was called sister of Aaron, it means from the family of Harum (AS) … so what?
Statement ‘O sister of Aaron’ in Quran is true and so is our belief that ‘Maryam (AS) was not biological sister of Aaron’.
[We should know that Maryam (AS) was not descendant of Harum (AS) but both Harum (AS) and Maryam (AS) were born from two different sons of Yaqub (AS) … so Maryam (AS) can be called sister of Harun (AS) … just like we say that relationship of Prophet (SAW) and Musa (AS) was of Brotherhood, as they were children of two brothers, Ismail (AS) and Ishaq (AS)]
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Actually, I believe, if one looks at Ayah 19:45 only …
19:45… "O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (Allah) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend."
And develop belief entirely on this ayah, while not even thinking that father could be biological father as well as carer (uncle or guardian), than misguidance is certain.
But, if one looks at above ayah (19:45) and also ayahs 26:215-220 … especially ayah 26:219
26:219… And thy movements among those who prostrate themselves,
Plus all relevant hadiths, then one would be clear that in Ayah 19:45 Father mentioned is not biological father, but carer (uncle or guardian)
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Peace All,
brother Sa1eem,
I wonder why you quoted half portion of the verse 113? 
In the very same verse word ‘polytheist’ is mentioned and one who associate another deity i.e., do ‘shirk’ is a surely a hell dweller. This verse is immaculate and very easy to understand. I unable to understand what u r upto?
Brother TLK,
Hazrat Ibrahim a.s., said this before he declared himself innocent from his father, after he became sure that he was an enemy of Almighty Allah.
Hazrat Ibrahim a.s., continued asking for forgiveness for his father for the rest of his father’s life. When his father died an idolator and He realized this fact, he stopped asking Allah for forgiveness for him and disassociated himself from him.
Also invoking for his father’s forgiveness was only because of a “promise” he had made to him. But when it became clear to him that he was an enemy to Almighty Allah, He dissociated himself from him.
(Tafsir by Ibn Kathir).
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Peace all,
and also please see below hadith mentioned in book ‘Prophets’ of Sahih Bukhari, Hadith No. 569:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet 
said, “On the Day of Resurrection Abraham will meet his father Azar whose face will be dark and covered with dust.(The Prophet Abraham will say to him): ‘Didn’t I tell you not to disobey me?’ His father will reply: ‘Today I will not disobey you.’ ‘Abraham will say: ‘O Lord! You promised me not to disgrace me on the Day of Resurrection; and what will be more disgraceful to me than cursing and dishonoring my father?’ Then Allah will say (to him):’ 'I have forbidden Paradise for the disbelievers.” Then he will be addressed, ‘O Abraham! Look! What is underneath your feet?’ He will look and there he will see a Dhabh (an animal,) blood-stained, which will be caught by the legs and thrown in the (Hell) Fire."
**The chain narrators of above hadith are: Isma’il bin 'Abdullah bin 'Abdullah ——» Abu Bakr bin Abi Uvais ——» Muhammad bin 'Abdur Rahman b. Abi Dh’ab ——» Sa’id bin Abi Sa’id (Kaysan) ——» Abu Hurairah **
Tafaseer are peoples interpretation of an ayaat. Did ibne kathir mentioned the source of his explanation of that ayat?
I am not questioning ibne kathir, I am just asking for his source.
Also Psyah and Saleem, could you give me the source of the claim that Azar was Abraham’s uncle?
It seems to me that mufassir and other ulema are jumping through hoops to make that dua of hazrat Ibrahim look invalid. My confusion is this that why Allah decided to make this ayaat part of quraan then, if it was not a valid dua? Usually Allah nagates an ayaat right there in Quran, in the very next ayaat. Did not happen here.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Peace brother TLK,
I think the source of his explanation is from Holy Qu’ran and hadith. Hadith, I already quoted above. Source from Qur’an is here:
Chapter 19 verse 41 onwards:
Furthermore, Almighty Allah says in Holy Qu’ran (chapter 28 verse 56): Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.
The dua (verse) is valid and it is will of Almighty Allah whom HE guides. Also, plz see below hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim:
Almighty Allah knows best.
Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
Brother, do you really think I could do that … quote a part of ayah without quoting complete ayah?
Please check my post again and you will find complete ayahs (9:84 and 9:113) … and then only part of ayah (9:113) is referred to clear what is written in the ayah. 
Here is my post you referred:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/636176-believer-ask-forgiveness-of-non-believer-polytheist.html#post9917214
[Hint: Make sure to see quoted post of Khamosh girl in my post :)]
As for what I am upto (as you asked)?
I am surprised you were unable to understand my post.
I was answering to Khamosh girl (Post 4). Since I quoted Khamosh girl’s post, Ayah 9:113 became part of my post too.
9:113 … It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.
Since two ayahs are there in Khamosh girl post, I commented on both ayahs writing that:
Ayah 9:84 is for Munafaqeen
Ayah 9:113 is for Mushrakeen
Further, I commented on ayah 9:113 … that first part of ayah (not praying for forgiveness of Mushrakeen) is conditional on second part … saying that no Muslim can fulfil second part because no Muslim can know with guarantee that one who died, really died as Mushrak (as a person can even accept Islam in their heart just before his death, that no one other than Allah could know). Thus, a Muslim can pray for person they think was Mushrik as far as they were concerned.