Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
^ I agree with Umer. Taking the risk or allow american plane to take a risk of bombing Al zawahiri at the expense of some civilians is not wise and Musharraf did a very stupid thing there. This makes every patriot sad at the innocent death of a civilian and provide oppurtunitists to whine and cry about losses.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Whatever justification the government might use for that, but to me this is a plain invitation to civil war. More people will die and will be injured as a result of this.
I simply can't understand what they were trying to achieve with this attack. Is the remote chance of killing Ayman al Zawahiri really worth killing 80 of your own people? Even if 79 out of these 80 people were "militants" (by whatever defintion) there is no justification to kill that one person whatsoever. And don't give me that bull about collateral damage that the US administration uses. To them hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis are collateral damage as well.
maybe the fact that zawahiri could potentially kill thousands of pakistanis by orchastrating bomb attacks to start a shia sunni sectarian violence in pakistan....
please don't give me this sentimental BS about civilians, etc...
if these people had sense of morality, they would conduct their meetings in areas which do not have civilians present
the fact that they were meeting there suggests they purpously used civilians as human shields.....
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
please don't give me this sentimental BS about civilians, etc...
if these people had sense of morality, they would conduct their meetings in areas which do not have civilians present
the fact that they were meeting there suggests they purpously used civilians as human shields.....
It is very obvious that cowards like Zawahiri will not present themselves on a silver platter.
But are you really saying that this obvious fact justifies the killing of people that are not Zawahiri and don't have anything to do with Zawahiri apart from the fact that they are living in a city where he supposedly has spent some time a while ago? If you do then we two have very different understandings of morality.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
But are you really saying that this obvious fact justifies the killing of people that are not Zawahiri and don't have anything to do with Zawahiri apart from the fact that they are living in a city where he supposedly has spent some time a while ago? If you do then we two have very different understandings of morality.
Maybe the fact that he was suppose to be there doesnt matter to you?
This man and Osama have de-stabilized Pakistan. By using Pakistan and Afghanistan to launch their Arab Jihad against USA shows their utter contempt for Pakistani and Afghani lives....
However, this is a tough and brutal fight.
The people their are brainwashed into supporting these animals and Pakistan has to show that it will take these people out and cannot use Pakistan as a base for conducting their operations from.
If Pakistan makes a policy that it will not target terrorists if there are civilians present then how effective will we be in capturing or taking out these animals?
I understand that innocent lives had been lost but think of many innocent lives have been spared by killing these people....
These people in the Tribal Areas have taken up arms against the Pakistani Government, killed over 1,000 of our brave soldiers, tried to assassinate our leaders, conduct terrorist bombings in our cities, import drugs and other vices into Pakistani cities, give shelter to foreign terrorists and de-stabilize our border areas.
For them there is no sympathy. If these people think they can hide in Pakistan they are surely mistaken.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
usual judgemental response, self-proclaimed defenders of the faith.....labeling everyone else with names....bunch of hypcrites....
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
The problem in the tribals areas was more that the central asian/middle easterners had bags of money to buy places to stay there..the tribals arent brainwashed. from what i read of the afghan jihad, the Afghans didnt really like the way the non Afghans "got in the way" and claimed some of the victories for themselves. Was & is money rather than ideology.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
same logic applies to the other side, if someone is targeting army installations, personnel then according to your logic they too reserve the right to respond in kind.
And where is your anger, compassion when 650 army jawans are killed? why does your few utterences of sympathy happen when reminded?
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Supposed to be there <> Was there
Tells you something about the reliability of intelligence that tells you where someone is "supposed" to be
This man and Osama have de-stabilized Pakistan. By using Pakistan and Afghanistan to launch their Arab Jihad against USA shows their utter contempt for Pakistani and Afghani lives....
This is where I agree with you.
However, this is a tough and brutal fight.
The people their are brainwashed into supporting these animals and Pakistan has to show that it will take these people out and cannot use Pakistan as a base for conducting their operations from.
If Pakistan makes a policy that it will not target terrorists if there are civilians present then how effective will we be in capturing or taking out these animals?
Ever heared about "targetted killings" instead of blind missile fire?
I understand that innocent lives had been lost but think of many innocent lives have been spared by killing these people....
In this particular case no lives have been saved but only wasted, because the targetted people were not among the dead.
These people in the Tribal Areas have taken up arms against the Pakistani Government, killed over 1,000 of our brave soldiers, tried to assassinate our leaders, conduct terrorist bombings in our cities, import drugs and other vices into Pakistani cities, give shelter to foreign terrorists and de-stabilize our border areas.
Yes there are people in the Tribal Areas who do that, but you can't blame the whole population of these Tribal Areas for something that a couple of them are doing.
For them there is no sympathy. If these people think they can hide in Pakistan they are surely mistaken.
The people you are talking about are still hiding in Pakistan. But that doesn't make it right to kill innoncent people.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Tells you something about the reliability of intelligence that tells you where someone is "supposed" to be
Well this isnt like infiltrating a Soviet Embassy in Prague....
The intelligence that we gather comes from people we pay to keep their ears open to any word of these terrorists movement and if they have any actionable intelligence to relay it back to HQ from where people can make decisions to act upon it.
Pakistan doesnt have that kind of technology.
Actually most of the people killed were Taliban and al Qaeda terrorists including the spiritual guide of zawahiri
You can't blame the whole population but you have to show to the population what will happen if you let this kind of activity go unchecked and be the silent majority
It doesnt make it right to kill innocent people but what else can we do?
We have to act on intelligence as it comes in and if we don't the consequences of in-action is greater than the consequences of doing this action
However, the greatest possible care must be given to safeguard human lives...
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
You can't blame the whole population but you have to show to the population what will happen if you let this kind of activity go unchecked and be the silent majority
Not true. It's the job of the Army to rid the country of these infiltrators, not the citizens. The Army is there to protect the citizens. They should reduce the number of civilian casualties as much as possible, which I'm sure is what they try and do. There's actually nothing illegal about someone being paid to shelter someone else, the Army is there to find these people. If the shelterer then knows his guest is causing such trouble then he should be arrested after of course and tried in a court.
Similarly, one cannot blame the Army if the shelterer is killed by them while they are fighting for the infiltrator. If the Army is after an infiltrator and people stand next to the infiltrator, then that again isnt the Army's fault. Usually the Army will tell the people to come out of buildings before firing on it. It's possible that the people werent allowed to leave, but then the Army would have tried to negotiate their release. Collateral damage is just a fact with these kinds of operations and lack of using more expensive guidance systems.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
When I dis Pakistan and say it is heading for the gutter and it’s creation was unnecessary my parents always jump to its support saying it might not be truly Islamic but at least Muslims are free to practice their faith here and are not in fear of persecution from Hindus like in India, lol lol what a joke, Pakistan is not free or independent, it is a slave country and it is now persecuting Muslims just as bad as in Gujarat and Kashmir.
American swines or swarthy-greasy-matchstick Paki Army will never annihilate those people, Pakis are just gay when it comes to fighting (that’s why even Azad Kashmir wouldn’t be there’s had it not been for Islamic soldiers) but even pussy Americans can’t fight those people without all their fancy gear and helmets to hide behind. No foreigner has ever ruled them and no one will, they’re natural warriors.
Up to now Pakistan has been using Islam to exploit those people and enslave them for its own ends but now Pakistan has shown the fickleness of it's version of "Islam". Islam or secularism there will be a massive rebellion against Pakistan and Pakistan will be no more, Punjab and Sindh can go back to India or become independent countries. It is not befetting that smelly slaves be ruling over kings.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Pakistan has neither Deen nor Duniya, at least India has Duniya. Pakistan doesn't even know what it is to project a glamorous image of itself to the world, Islam or no Islam it will always be without a decent economy (that's false propoganda on PTV), identity or culture.
I'm more pissed off at it's cheek in creating Islamists and then disposing them off when they're not in its interests than anything else. I hope Pakistan becomes the next Iraq and USA do worse to Parvez than what they did to Saddam.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Pakistan Army would have given any 10 year olds the oppotunity to come out before flattening the place. They're after foreigners who destabilize the country. This is a valid reason, so one cannot blame Pakistan Army for going after these people. The tactic of flattening a place with these people in is also justified, as they would have given the occupants the opportunity to come out before doing so, unless the occupants were prevented from doing so, in which case it is the fault of the people in the building for hiding behind a human shield, and not the Pakistan Army (though Pakistan Army should treat this sort of situation differently and with more care - special ops would have to do this).
Pakistan doesnt need Islamists anymore, which is true, but they're not after peaceful Islamists. They're after foreigners who want to destabilize the country. This would be acceptable to any country around the world.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
What else is Pakistan suppose to do?
When they see foreign terrorists congregating in certain areas, they are suppose to take them out....
Its sad that civilians are killed but its an unavoidable consequence of war
All of this would never have happened if Pakistan didnt allow these places to gain so much autonomy that they themselves are creating their own foreign policies....
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
^ Sure. It's quite true unless of course the civillians in "its sad that civllians are killed" are you or me or your or mine relatives. Right?
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
I care what is best for Pakistan....
These people are a strategic threat to Pakistan
USA went to war to bring the Southern USA in line and to abolish slavery...
I think we need to do the same
Either you come under government control or the governmnet will be forced to send in forces to control you
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
USA went to war to bring the Southern USA in line and to abolish slavery...
I think we need to do the same
This is not the 1800's, inaccurate comparison.
As long as Mush gets a pat on the back from Bush and stays in power, he doesn't care how many people get blown apart
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Musharraf had no choice these militants are trying to kill him too not just the americans,they tried to assasinate him 3 times,he can't afford to turn a blind eye to them...otherwise what is happening in Iraq right now would start happening in Pakistan too.Militants would love to do de-stabilize Musharraf's government and in the process will push back Pakistan to stone age.All these morons like Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Imran Khan realy don't know what they are talking about,these idiots would be happy to see talibans take over Pakistan and all the moderate forces defeated.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Imran Khan want’s a Taleban takeover of Pakistan?! 
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
so lets see,
if there is a facility in an atrea friendly to the foriegn terrorists, an area where people have been hosting them, shiedling them, and lying to the authorities.
In such an area, if these people are in a facility, and may have human shields too, do you try to have a ground battle with these people and see if you can free the human shields? what makes you think that they would just let them go if the place was surrounded?
the only difference in a ground offensive versus a aerial strike would be the preservation of soldiers lives who would have been in danger not just from ppl holed in the madrissa but their friends outside.