Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
I am not taking sides. Just look at from a neutral perspective:
Highly likely that the US destroyed this madrassah based on flimsy piece of intelligence, as the raid has all the signatures of an American strike, and left Pakistan to assume responsibility for cover/clean up.
Also, unlikely that any taliban militants died in this attack..
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
When Shia Muslims are being killed by the Taliban in Afghanistan and by al qaida goons in Iraq some people were making excuses and justifications for them, after all these people consider us non-Muslims or kaffirs. I think some on this forum went as far as calling zarqawi a "patriot". Now these hatemongers and killers of Pakistani Shia are getting a taste of their own medicine we hear them go on about innocent lives and targetting our "own" people.
Long live the Pakistani army which has lost hundreds of soldiers defending our lands against these killers.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
I’ll leave it for your speculation.*
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
No Sir. you are wrong....
these people have taken up arms against the government, sheltering foreign terrorists who have caused numerous bombings in pakistan, tried to assassinate our government officials and have openly fought our soldiers...
these are treasonous acts which is punishable by death
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Which government forces? Pakistan or Afghanistan? The people in bordering areas have been supporting people fighting invaders in neighboring country not in Pakistan.
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How exactly could they have surrounded the madrassah?
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Just exactly how they bombed the madrassah i.e. take helicopters and surround them.
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The military coming to surround the madrassah would have alerted the terrorists inside the school and they would have fled...
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Didn't they fled 30 minutes before actual bombing already? So who died in bombing? Al-CIAda or innocent?
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These people have taken up arms against Pakistan. Openly resist government presense of Pakistan and in essence has become an autonomous area. That cannot be allowed.
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Not really, they have taken arms against Afghanistan invaders.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
We're at war with YOU, and anyone who sides with you in this war. They are our brothers.
Well, tell me something that I didn't know. You have been at war with us far longer than we realized it.
But let's abandon the thoughts that all Muslims are Brothers. Iraq's sectarian violence certainly proves that is not true. A Muslim is far more likely to be killed by a Chinese or Russian AK-47 (the real weapon of mass destruction) wielded by another Muslim than by the hand (even the hidden hand) of the US or Israel.
This conflict is about power, who has it, and who wants it. Like every other war.
Why should Pakistan be immune? New York wasn't. Bali wasn't. Madrid wasn't. London wasn't. Washington wasn't. The Sinai wasn't. Istanbul wasn't. Muslim youths burn 125 cars a night in Paris. Why should this war not come to your doorsteps?
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Unfortunately for you, people in Afghanistan do not think of the Americans and NATO as invaders. If they did, the insurgency would be 1000 times worse than it is and Taliban and Al Qaeda won't need to take shelter in mountains because their presence is clearly not welcome in Afghanistan.
How many Men can an attack Helicopter carry? Answer 2....
How many Attack Helicopters does Pakistan have? Answer 20....
20 X 2 = 40...
so what you are saying, take all of our attack helicopters, land them, let the pilots with thier pistols surround the building where armed terrorists are hiding with machine guns, and RPG and who probably outnumber the pakistani forces by 10 to 1 and have local support...
my my what a plan....
Only the top leader left, the rest were their underlings....
Then who has killed over 1,000 pakistani soldiers?
Martians
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
you go boy… people in Afghanistan are distributing sweets for US invasion then I guess :k: … did you get your part of the sweets? The whole mass of country doesn’t participate in a war or resistance, its always much smaller group which fights back. Reason the fighters sheltering in mountains is because there are traitors too, just like we have in our army who will sell their countrymen for $5000.
Get your facts straight, there are many many US helicopters in Pakistan who can carry more than 2 people onboard. You can surround them and not let anyone go until your ground army reaches the point… do I need to draw you a full picture/strategy? I thought people could use some common sense, I guess common sense is not so common after all.
Check with local armies in Baluchistan/Waziristan/Tribal areas, if they get killed they will kill you back.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
then how can the iraqi insurgents operate in broad daylight in cities if they don’t have local support?
Why don’t the Iraqi Insurgent go hide in the desert then going by your analogy?
and if Afghans are against this occupation, shouldnt taliban be able to parade themselves openly in Kabul and other places and given the fact that USA and NATO only have 20,000 troops as compared to 140,000 in Iraq…
Or maybe the Afghans do actually want to get rid of the Taliban Nazis and don’t want archaic whabbism in their country…
Many US helicopters in Pakistan? Is that why Pakistan was begging USA to loan its Black Hawks to them during the Kashmir EarthQuake?
Get your facts straight. Pakistan doesnt have many or otherwise any troop transport Helicopters and most of those are in Karachi for the Navy…
So basically you want a small team to be inserted into a enemy areas, surround them when they could have RPG and Machine Guns, Land Mines and when they can take cover behind fortified areas where as those commandos are vulnerable as well as local support and hold out until the Army reaches that area which could be hours away given the poor road networks and risk that Big al Qaeda leaders escaping…
and all of this has to be organized, commandos transported within minutes after the predator drones spot al qaeda terrorists congregating in that area
Thankyou for showing me that people who criticize the Army have absolutley no knowledge how battlefield plans are implemented…
I guess common sense is not so common after all
They wouldn’t get killed if they don’t take up arms against the government, give shelter to foreign terrorists
This argument is absurd…
Basically what you are saying that if a local gangster has been given shelter by the locals and the police goes in to arrest these men and those people who are sheltering the local gangster resist and are killed
you blame the police
how convenient…
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
^^
you really need to study some more. Your knowledge about Afghan issue is very limited.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Foreign militia have invaded into Pakistan. central asians, middle easterners, Pakistan Army is getting these people out that's really about it AFAIK. Most of the madrassah students were foreign. In Afghanistan, people most likely just want peace, if it comes from the coalition or the Taliban. Should be pointed out that Northern Alliance are just as atrocious as the Taliban though.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
you really need to study some more. Your knowledge about Afghan issue is very limited.
I know more about Afghan than many posters on gupshup
its just that it doesnt fit the typical mindset of a pakistani that afghanistan being under occupation of foreign troops......
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
its just that it doesnt fit the typical mindset of a pakistani that afghanistan being under occupation of foreign troops......
Other issues aside. this whole idea of an independent country being invaded by foreigners is impossible for us to digest and ofcourse so is for Afghans
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Its interesting how you find caveats in rules in this case and not in that. You consistently call Pakistan a country that doesnt have Islamic laws, what laws does it have then by your standards? What is the fatwa for expatriates living in Turkey, they are not allowed to wear the veil while living in a Muslim majority country. Why is that different from UK?
Islam is not a religion of criminals, we live honourably within a country’s laws while meeting our religious obligations or we leave, no?
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Oh dont be so melodramatic. Pakistan has had its share of WOT related violence from the moment the first bombs dropped in Afghanistan. Just because we dont hold bloated gr andiose public displays of emotion every freaking year and make it a political issue and make movies about it while ignoring all the other death and destruction wrought directly and indirectly at our hands does NOT mean that it wasnt at our doorsteps all along.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Easy there tiger. We had CIA-ISI sponsored terrorism (as well as KGB-KHAD terrorism) in our region long before you guys even knew what jihadi madness was all about.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
Sure, it served a purpose. Don't you think the Soviets wanted an Indian Ocean port? Do you think that having conquered Afghanistan that the Soviets would have liked a nice pipeline to the sea? How about a lot of little Pakistani kids named Ivan?
There was a time and a place for Jihad. Then there was supposed to be **peace. **Instead the ISI decided to continue the flow of arms and chaos. The CIA-ISI relationship was simple. The CIA provided guns and money and the ISI funneled it all to the Jihadis, and they controlled every aspect of the relationship. The Taliban is the ISIs frankenstein monster. They created it, it went out of control, now they have to kill it. The Pakistani people just haven't really figured out that the ISI is at the Nexus of a lot of nefarious stuff, and there will be a price to pay.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
taleban is just as much isi's monster as al qaeda is CIAs monster.
tribals although are niether al qaeda not taleban, but they d have sympoathies wit taleban due to ethnic links. just thought i would set the record straight OG>
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
The time and place for jihad was only when the CIA said so and it was against the Soviets. But not when ISI decided to outsource it to Kashmir or Afghanistan for its own interests? CIA interests, good, ISI interests bad? If the CIA had never provided the guns, money, training, the jihadi infrastructure in Pakistan would likely consist of a dozen old bearded mullahs with walking sticks.
And did anyone really expect peace from Afghan warlords? Dostum, Ahmed Shah Masood, Hekmatyar, Ismail Khan etc., are/were not models for peace.
Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.
I am extremely saddned by this incident. Whether someone is a "militant" or not merely depends on who defines what a "militant" is.
Whatever justification the government might use for that, but to me this is a plain invitation to civil war. More people will die and will be injured as a result of this.
I simply can't understand what they were trying to achieve with this attack. Is the remote chance of killing Ayman al Zawahiri really worth killing 80 of your own people? Even if 79 out of these 80 people were "militants" (by whatever defintion) there is no justification to kill that one person whatsoever. And don't give me that bull about collateral damage that the US administration uses. To them hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis are collateral damage as well.