Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

What will be the effects of this action in the near future. It scares me, but truth be told…Musharaf is actually inviting war on himself and his own people.

If, lets say there were militants in that madrassah, those militants offer no threat of any kind to the Pakistani population. Their war is with America, the British and the other coalition forces. Why, would anyone, want to divert the war towards his own people and his own country? Unless of course, he is highly influenced by those in the other hemisphere.

We also do know, there still are considerable islamist elements in the ISI and the Pakistan Army, such actions will only cause these two fundamental institutions to break apart.

2

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Maybe the fact that their mere presence violates Pakistani soverignity?

Can any other country accept illegal armed groups who openly resist government forces?

Or maybe the fact that their incessent attacks across the border de-stabilizes Pakistan's border or the fact their constant attacks on NATO places Pakistan in danger of NATO attacks on Pakistani soil from where these attacks are originating.

What kind of a dilusional mindset are you in?

So there is considerable islamist elements in ISI and Pakistan Army?

Please tell me which Generals and commanding officers are those?

And how exactly will lead these institutions to break apart?

Or isnt just one of your fantasies of arm chair generalling

3

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Considering what you're saying is correct, it still does not justify what they did. It was a schoo, a religious school where young children come and study Quran. You dont go bomb the whole school, just cause you think there are militants there.

But the issue is.... Why are they illegal now? Especially after they've been serving Pakistan's interests so well in the last few decades. Pakistan army and the ISI used them to fulfil their interests on foreign soil and they did the job perfectly well.

They have no issue with the government. Be realistic, its the government that has an issue with their activities.

When the Jihad was against the Communists, the Pak government was supporting them in every possible way. Why is it, that now....when the Jihad is against America, Pakistan government has not only turned their backs on them, but is hell bent on killing and massacring them.

As far as islamist elements are concerned, go as Abdul Qadeer Khan, on who helped him smuggle out nuclear technology to Libya and Iran. Just cause u got rid of a few Hamid Guls and Usmanis and Javed Nasirs, on the orders of your masters, doesn't mean that there are no more Islamist elements in the Army and the ISI.

No, i do not fancy the army or the ISI breaking up. I pray for their strength, but at the same time i pray that Allah guide or destroy those who are using these forces for a purpose that is alien to the idealogy of Pakistan and the institutions.

4

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

I know that there are madrassa that preach hate and even the most religious people will admit that, there is indeed a clean up of hate preachers needed but for government to act towards its people like this is sickening. They can say all they want about they are after Al-Qaeda and its elements but when the helicopter with missiles is flying over your head it means it can hit anyone.

5

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Sharaabi nay farmaya

*But the issue is.... Why are they illegal now? Especially after they've been serving Pakistan's interests so well in the last few decades. Pakistan army and the ISI used them to fulfil their interests on foreign soil and they did the job perfectly well. *

Pakisan's interests changed
The militants interests changed
miltants interests are creating problems for Pakistan so its not that the interests are not aligned, they are opposed.
they were no longer compatible, simple as that

*They have no issue with the government. Be realistic, its the government that has an issue with their activities. *

The govt has an issue with their activities because what it means to Pakistan's national interests.

*When the Jihad was against the Communists, the Pak government was supporting them in every possible way. Why is it, that now....when the Jihad is against America, Pakistan government has not only turned their backs on them, but is hell bent on killing and massacring them. *

read the top of my response for an answer.

*As far as islamist elements are concerned, go as Abdul Qadeer Khan, on who helped him smuggle out nuclear technology to Libya and Iran. Just cause u got rid of a few Hamid Guls and Usmanis and Javed Nasirs, on the orders of your masters, doesn't mean that there are no more Islamist elements in the Army and the ISI. *

so time to take them out. The fact of the matter is that the strategy that was being employed back then just does not work. There is no benefit either politically or economically for supporting the militants, the 'moral support' to fighters in kashmir is not going to pan out. The world has changed, it was a different situation when

No, i do not fancy the army or the ISI breaking up. I pray for their strength, but at the same time i pray that Allah guide or destroy those who are using these forces for a purpose that is alien to the idealogy of Pakistan and the institutions.

The 'ideology' of the institutions should be to protect Pakistan, whether it is being in cahoots with US and mujahideen against the soviet so they are not their next door neighbours. No other ideology has a place here, just to do what it takes in the best national interests in a dynamic global environment. There may be some renegades in there who place their personal beliefs and agendas above national interests and security but not the majority. The renegades need to be rooted out.

6

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Wrong. They were doing Jihad fi sabililah yesterday, by fighting the invading communists and they're doing jihad fi sabeelilah today too, by fighting the invaders and their puppet regime.

Its not Pakistan's war. Pakistan does not need to take orders from anyone. The least they could do is stay neutral in this whole affair.

And do these steps guarantee protection? Al Qaeda and Osama bin Ladin command enormous support amongst the population. Do not be fooled by the couple of dozen secularists that you see running the affairs of the country. These people could raise an army amongst our own people, and you wouldn't even know what hit you.

These people knocked down the Soviet Union, destroyed US's arrogance and pride in Iraq, and Nato has absolutely no clue whats goin on in Afghanistan. Do you think Musharaf and his handful of me would stand any chance against them? These are the Taif al Mansoorah, it is impossible to defeat them militarily.

7

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

*Its not Pakistan's war. Pakistan does not need to take orders from anyone. The least they could do is stay neutral in this whole affair. *

They are more than welcome to go out of Pakistan and make it someone else's problem. I agree it is not Pakistan's war...its these militants war, and they should not be making Pakistan their base of operations.

They can stay neutral if it was not from pakistan's soil and not on Pakistan's soil.

*And do these steps guarantee protection? Al Qaeda and Osama bin Ladin command enormous support amongst the population. Do not be fooled by the couple of dozen secularists that you see running the affairs of the country. These people could raise an army amongst our own people, and you wouldn't even know what hit you. *

right, sure they do...
The population which 'supports' OBL is big on talk. when it comes to actually doing something they will not, and more so when there is some sort of ight they will not. Yeah I expect them to do the cowardly acts of blowing up innocent ppl as their 'war' but what else.

These people knocked down the Soviet Union, destroyed US's arrogance and pride in Iraq, and Nato has absolutely no clue whats goin on in Afghanistan. Do you think Musharaf and his handful of me would stand any chance against them? These are the Taif al Mansoorah, it is impossible to defeat them militarily.

they knocked down soviet union by support of US. and they only pushed them out of Afghanistan, he fall of USSR had other factors as well, which get ignored.

8

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

No Matter whatever happens in those schools - its another discussion But killing own people like this is totally brutal & inhuman.
For God Sake, they all were Pakistani people - own people. Govt killed them like they were nothing. Howcome without any court rulings, without any solid proofs.
whats the difference between the British rule and our recent govt. Yes, our recent govt is more hostile & barbaric.
This all will just take PK towards more instability & hatred. The worst thing is the hatred for the army which is dangerious - specifically if there is a border clash/war.

9

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Its their country and their land, they dont need to go anywhere. You're talking about people who have never been ruled by anyone in history.

They are living by Islam, and its Islam that commands them not to turn their backs on their muslim brother when he comes to them for help...unlike the Pakistani government thats adheres to the commands of the White House.

Asking them to leave their lands, and asking them to do what is unislamic is wrong.

The people you see fighting the coalition forces all over the world are these same people. Yeaa, they be like 1 in a 1000, but still. With the opression at a new level, dont be surprised if you see a surge in militancy.

Totally agree with you. What i really meant was USSR being defeated in Afghanistan. I wasn't attributing the fall of the Soviet Union to the Afghanis solely.

And yes, they did have the support of many. They do it today too, they're recieving funding from somewhere. Someone must be supporting them. But the fact of the matter is that they won. And they winning today too. And they shall continue to win, as long as they adhere to the Haq.

10

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Exactly. Even if there were militants, this was not the way to go about. Its a school, for heaven's sake.

The government acted on foreign intelligence. You just dont go around killing your people like that.

11

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

^^
Right. How about catching them and going in the courts like a civilized nation.

12

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Just to keep things in perspective, Pak army has lost more than 650 jawans in this tragic episode. If killing of 'suspected' militants is a moral outrage then the same standard applies on killing of Pak Army Jawans and perpatrators of this heinous crime deserve swift and extreme punishment. Having said that, if the recent killing of suspected militants is a case of mistaken identity then this wud be extremely unfortunate and warrant some deep soul searching. Again, problem here is of extreme violence going unpunished no matter which side of the prism....

13

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

i agree with cool breeze, bombing indiscriminately on your own population is stupid, and i dont even see it as strategically feasible.

but sharaabi, in the recent thread on veils in UK you said that those who feel they cannot abide by their religion in UK should emigrate back to their land of origin. given that Pakistan has made illegal what they feel to be a religious responsibility ie the jihad against America/western forces, would you consider it a responsibility for any foreign fighters in Pakistan to peacefully leave instead of trying to subvert the writ of the government?

bear in mind that Im asking about the foreign fighters hiding in madrassas/northern areas.

14

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Yea. That'll be humane, atleast.

15

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

About time!

The courts in Pakistan are all conveniently equipped with revolving doors. By the time the ink on the press release is dry announcing the capture, the "suspect" is being let out the back.

These radicals are an embarrassment to your country. They have tried to assassinate your President! And you think you are not at war with them? Do you realize how hard they are all laughing at your pathetic understanding of their brutality and willingness to kill unconditionally?

Sheesh.

16

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Its all for the "greater good" of humanity, kill some people, make other people rise against the powers, kill another "some people", more people will rise and then you say "you control your land, we mind our business, tata".

17

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

That rule is for kafir lands. Pakistan is anything but a kafir land.

18

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.


So have the "seculars" become an embarassment for rest of the population of the country by bending and inviting. You don't go around bombing your own population, they could've surrounded the whole region/madrassah and asked them to surrender.... if you read the related article it says the "sought-Al-CIAda-member" had left the building 30 minutes before the bombing, what does that tell anyone?

19

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

And, there are some conflicting stories going around:

Zawahiri Was Target in U.S. Attack on Religious School in Pakistan

     October 30, 2006  1:15 PM
     Alexis Debat Reports:
     [http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/images/pakistan_rubble_zawahiri_nr.jpg](http://blogs.abcnews.com/photos/uncategorized/pakistan_rubble_zawahiri_nr.jpg)Ayman al Zawahiri was the target of a Predator missile attack this morning on a religious school in Pakistan, according to Pakistani intelligence sources.

ABC News has learned the raid was launched after U.S. intelligence received tips and examined Predator reconnaissance indicating that al Qaeda’s No. 2 man may have been staying at the school, which is located in the Bajaur region near the village that is thought to be al Qaeda’s winter headquarters.
Despite earlier reports that the missiles had been launched by Pakistani military helicopters, Pakistani intelligence sources now tell ABC News that the missiles were fired from a U.S. Predator drone plane.

Between two and five senior al Qaeda militants were killed in the attack, including the mastermind of the airliners plot in the U.K., according to Pakistani intelligence sources.
No word yet on whether or not Zawahiri was killed in the raid, but one Pakistani intelligence source did express doubt that Zawahiri would have been staying in a madrassa, which is an obvious target for strikes against militants. That source, however, did express confidence that Pakistani intelligence is closing in on Zawahiri’s location.
One of the clerics who is believed to have been killed today, Maulana Liaquat, was one of the two main local leaders believed to be protecting Zawahiri.
Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News they believe they have “boxed” Zawahiri in a 40-square-mile area between the Khalozai Valley in Bajaur and the village of Pashat in Kunar, Afghanistan. They hope to capture or kill him in the next few months.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/zawahiri_was_ta.html

Champions Trophy - Australia v India - Sep. 28, 09
20

Re: Barbaric Mushy raids school, killing dozens of innocents.

Wrong.

We're at war with YOU, and anyone who sides with you in this war. They are our brothers.

Audio Antakshari - C'mon and lets Play!