the problem is that this does make muslims look stupid or unnecessarily over-protective. Neither all muslims are saints nor all non-muslims are perverts. on certain holy sites, the authorities can make certain rules and everyone will follow. but for an moment, set the mosques and holy sites aside, how about the markets, residential areas etc.
PS:btw, one of my uncle was visiting a church in US. he (may be out of curiosity) asked for permission to offer prayer inside the church. he was granted permission without hesitation. that incident only enhanced his respect towards christian community.
what is the rationale behind banning the whole city of Makkah to non-muslims? restrictions to masjid-al-haram is understandable and could be substantiated from the holy Quran but why whole city? honestly, I didn't know that before this discussion started.
3 pages of discussion and no one explained it.
Peace kchughtai
I'm not saying this is THE rationale, but I can tell you A rationale as to why non-Muslims are stopped at the gates of Makkah.
1) Makkah - the whole of it is sanctuary. Not just the haram. That is no bloodshed, no slaughtering of animals and no felling of trees.
2) The entrance to the city via the roads is easier to police than the 40 or so gates to the haram.
3) Once people are in the haram even the police have to follow certain rules of the sanctuary regarding conduct.
4) If people wanted to cause harm they could do so regardless of entering the haram building, there are crowds in several places in the city.
If one is bent upon doing something nasty, he would do it, regardless he is officially muslim or not. Allowing only Muslims inside the city doesn’t make it any safer.
I like Monk’s explanation better. It is just typical laziness from the House of Saud.
I don't know what my stance is on this issue. I don't have knowledge.
But tell me one place, where its steaming hot weather, where goirs go, where they wont wear chadi ?????
I am all ears.
what is the rationale behind banning the whole city of Makkah to non-muslims? restrictions to masjid-al-haram is understandable and could be substantiated from the holy Quran but why whole city? honestly, I didn't know that before this discussion started.
3 pages of discussion and no one explained it.
Restrictions not apply to the Masjid Al Haram or the City of Makkah Al Mukarramah but beyond the city.
These boundaries were set none other than the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).
With massive expansion of Makkah some of these areas are now the ‘suburbs’ of the Blessed City.
“The boundary of the Haram in the direction of Madinah is before at-Tan‘eem, by the houses of Banu Nifaar, three miles from Makkah. On the road to Yemen, the boundary is Adaat Libn, seven miles from Makkah. On the road to at-Taa’if it is at ‘Arafaat, at the bottom of Namirah, seven miles away. On the road to Iraq it is the mountain pass of al-Muqatta‘, seven miles away. On the road to al-Ji‘raanah it is in the mountain pass of Aal ‘Abdillah ibn Khaalid, nine miles away. On the road to Jeddah it is Munqati‘al-A‘shaash, ten miles from Makkah”.
PS:btw, one of my uncle was visiting a church in US. he (may be out of curiosity) asked for permission to offer prayer inside the church. he was granted permission without hesitation. that incident only enhanced his respect towards christian community.
In the same vein there no restrictions on non-Muslims to visit any mosque as long as they are dressed appropriately.
I don’t think your uncle would have got permission to pray or give adhan in the Holy of Holies – The Vatican
I meant that he would be able to visit the Vatican.
I have on several occasions. I studied in Rome and visited the Vatican fairly frequently since it was just a small detour on my walk from campus to my flat.
Well then the Christians don’t have any textual command from ‘On High’ to restrict non-Christians to visit the Vatican. If they had so, then the Vatican would have been out of bounds for non-Catholics.
Whereas Muslims have ‘textual command’ by highest authority to restrict the entry of non-Muslims to the Haram area of Makkah Al Mukarramah. No big Deal!
Well then the Christians don’t have any textual command from ‘On High’ to restrict non-Christians to visit the Vatican. If they had so, then the Vatican would have been out of bounds for non-Catholics.
Whereas Muslims have ‘textual command’ by highest authority to restrict the entry of non-Muslims to the Haram area of Makkah Al Mukarramah. No big Deal!
I was answering to your point about whether someone who is not christian will be allowed at the Vatican. You were incorrect/not knowledgeable and I fixed that. Now that we know that in fact non catholics can go to vatican, we can close that argument off. No Big Deal! ;)
Well I looked st marks basilica up on google, then clicked images, then enlarge some of those images. Well goris are still being goris.
I don't think its acceptable dress code for muslim kind.
How every if christian monks male/female, rabais and such wanted to come I don't see any problem.
Rasoolallah(saw) him self invited and hosted Christian in masjid-nabwi.
There is difference between, regular western, and people among them who pull them self back from the world.
Well I looked st marks basilica up on google, then clicked images, then enlarge some of those images. Well goris are still being goris.
I don't think its acceptable dress code for muslim kind.
.
Did you also look up expected dress code for the place? A dress code is written, expected to enter the premises and is enforced. For the most part people respect that. Those that don't are asked to leave. Enforcement levels can vary. So another place can enforce a different dress code and have stricter enforcement. The precedence is there. That was the point.
Forget religious places, people show up at nice restaurants not respecting the dress code and are offered jackets to wear.
I mean men molesting women at Makkah is not something that's acceptable behavior for 'Muslim kind' but that argument that Saudis are still being Saudis is not used to keep the horndog Saudi men out.
I'm not saying this is THE rationale, but I can tell you A rationale as to why non-Muslims are stopped at the gates of Makkah.
1) Makkah - the whole of it is sanctuary. Not just the haram. That is no bloodshed, no slaughtering of animals and no felling of trees.
2) The entrance to the city via the roads is easier to police than the 40 or so gates to the haram.
3) Once people are in the haram even the police have to follow certain rules of the sanctuary regarding conduct.
4) If people wanted to cause harm they could do so regardless of entering the haram building, there are crowds in several places in the city.
Salam psyah sahib,
your explanation has one prime assumption i.e., non-muslims most probably may try to damage or do any such act that may amount to disrespect to say the least. Let us accept this assumption for a moment. my question is how do they make sure that only muslims gets in the premises. obviously, name, declaration of the person that he is a muslim or passport (if it bears the name of their religion). right? Do you think, in this age, it would be difficult for a person or a group, intending to damage the sanctuary one way or the other, to fake their identity? do you think it is a viable way to secure the sanctuaries from non-muslims aka miscreants?
The people who call themselves 'Khadim-e-Harmain-a-shareefain' should be pretty active in guarding the sanctuaries irrespective of number of doors 40 or 80. limiting the security to one main entrance is simply laziness.
Restrictions not apply to the Masjid Al Haram or the City of Makkah Al Mukarramah but beyond the city.
**
These boundaries were set none other than the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).**
With massive expansion of Makkah some of these areas are now the ‘suburbs’ of the Blessed City.
“The boundary of the Haram in the direction of Madinah is before at-Tan‘eem, by the houses of Banu Nifaar, three miles from Makkah. On the road to Yemen, the boundary is Adaat Libn, seven miles from Makkah. On the road to at-Taa’if it is at ‘Arafaat, at the bottom of Namirah, seven miles away. On the road to Iraq it is the mountain pass of al-Muqatta‘, seven miles away. On the road to al-Ji‘raanah it is in the mountain pass of Aal ‘Abdillah ibn Khaalid, nine miles away. On the road to Jeddah it is Munqati‘al-A‘shaash, ten miles from Makkah”.
In the same vein there no restrictions on non-Muslims to visit any mosque as long as they are dressed appropriately.
I don’t think your uncle would have got permission to pray or give adhan in the Holy of Holies – The Vatican
I don't think the holy prophet (pbuh) put any such restrictions. Did the muslims kick out all the non-muslims after conquering mecca? I don't think so.
your explanation has one prime assumption i.e., non-muslims most probably may try to damage or do any such act that may amount to disrespect to say the least. Let us accept this assumption for a moment. my question is how do they make sure that only muslims gets in the premises. obviously, name, declaration of the person that he is a muslim or passport (if it bears the name of their religion). right? Do you think, in this age, it would be difficult for a person or a group, intending to damage the sanctuary one way or the other, to fake their identity? do you think it is a viable way to secure the sanctuaries from non-muslims aka miscreants?
The people who call themselves 'Khadim-e-Harmain-a-shareefain' should be pretty active in guarding the sanctuaries irrespective of number of doors 40 or 80. limiting the security to one main entrance is simply laziness.
Peace kchughtai
Other than this the pilgrims have a greater right to the place. Over crowding is an issue and it is within their right to ban non-Muslims from the area. Whether people will lie to get in - yes that is a risk ... similarly people are asked to swear on oath in a court of law, it won't make the liar stop lying - but that does not mean you do away with the oath - or are you advocating that too?
You don't need to be a catholic to visit the vatican. period. pls let me know if I am wrong
brother** kchughtai **– You are absolutely right. Vatican is open to anyone to visit and one doesn’t need to be a Catholic. (I guess one needs an invitation for this visit – can’t just turn up at the door )
Visiting Vatican and praying the ritual prayers (like the one your dear uncle performed) are not the same.
I don't think the holy prophet (pbuh) put any such restrictions. Did the muslims kick out all the non-muslims after conquering mecca? I don't think so.
You are just opining your own views. You got to read and research.
Demarcations of Haram area was done none other than the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).
