Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Why only for time being?

I have not read all the posts after this but just FYI I agree with you here and have discussed this some time ago.

The religious processions, Juloos and street activities are nothing but show off and waste of time and energy.

This act causes only problems and regardless of any sect doing this is wrong.

One does not become a good or better Muslim when engaged in this kind of useless activity.

No disrespect to anyone with any sect here.

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Thats why i said school of thought or breed of intolerance! In that sense you are definitely connected.

[quote]
btw its the whole of the mainstream which sees your procession as an act of jahiliya, does this bother you? if it does we can talk, sincerely
[/QUOTE]

Not really; no....because you thankfully are not one bit mainstream. You're an isolated breed in pakistan..that no one cares for...so you can stop your pretence on being mainstream lol.

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Peace All,

[mod]OP's question is in general and not about any particular 'group', 'sect'. Plz be civil will posting/replying[/mod]

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Peace sonadar,

I have a question for you hope u'll make me understand that when there is any religious getherings [regardless to sects, beliefs] we hear some culprits bombed, shooted and caused so may lives but when there is any concert either by a particular group or mixed pplz, no bomb blast, shooting or violance type act occure? That concert can be called 'bad, act of jahaliya', or relate it to devil's works etc opposite to the religious activites. But surprisedly go in peaceful way whereas any religious activites not. any reason?

There are lots of things going on to spread hatress among different religious group, sect, belief.

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Lethal, there's a big difference. I never heard of a concert which is in the form of a parade of over a hundred thousand people that occupy the high streets of the capital cities and big and small towns of the country. What's disgusting about it is they block and paralyze the whole country for everything, not just for an hour, but almost the whole day, and not just for a day, but a couple more days. Now this is Islam? You don't give access to people who maybe trying to reach hospitals, airports or any place of importance.

Is it the Islam of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam?

Is it the Islam of pious companions of the Prophet of Islam?

Of course it is not, it's only politicizing the religion and showing off to the world that a particular sect is very strong, organized and no doubt angry!

I have no problem with them if they restrict themselves to a place of worship, just not to impose their faith upon the whole world by disturbing their life.

If you're Muslims, Allah has given you masjids for worship, the most you may take a big place for big gatherings. For example the biggest gatherings in the world are those of hajj in Makkah. People from all over the world go there to perform it. Do they disturb the whole country because some people are going for hajj?

Sorry I do not buy this; in the name of religious tolerance you take away religious freedom of other religious entities, is that fair?

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Peace Sonadar,

Well said and I agree that such activites may be held at one place and it is best so that they don't face any unpleasnt circumstances. Lets forget concert and talks about cricket or football match. Isn't these sports (or any other) effect house to house too. Have u not seen two differents fans of different group fighting with each others over a sports? o

If you performed Umrah or Hajj (if not than May Almighty Allah make it easy for all of us to do Umrah and Hajj. Ameen) than u might heard that some 'theifs' stole belongings of pplz in 'Tawaf' area. They are not pilgrims just 'intruders' and their actions cause negative reaction on 'pilgrims' and one way or another 'pilgrims' attention diverted to others and he or she for a moment looks at all others as 'theif'. Moreover, you'll see security personals in 'Har'am' area. They are their for protections.

What I meant to say is that in such juloos / conferences there could be one or many 'intruders', who somehow try to create unpleasnt atmosphere to effects others so that they start hating them. The security is there for protection from these 'intruders'.

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Well that problem lies with the authorities who need to manage access routes and security better, it still doesn't call for banning processions...

as for your exaggeration; the whole country does not come to a stand still; and its only one day if not a couple of hours; out of a whole year. You think you could find bigger things to whinge about... Like the minorities being slained everyday in pak. Just for being a minority!!

People hold protests every other day in the uk and the world; traffic and roads have to be temp blocked; its normal practise everywhere; not just in your city!!

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

It's not about some criminal minded people as part of such huge gatherings or processions, it's about blocking the high streets of big cities and towns; in other words they block access of the citizens to places like hospitals, airports, and elsewhere.

Secondly, the hajj is not a controversial ritual among the Muslims; but Aashura processions are sectarian and obviously the mainstream doesn't approve of them.

Thirdly, they don't occupy the high streets of all big cities of Saudi Arabia only because they have an excuse of performing hajj.

High streets belong to all citizens of a country like Pakistan, not just a minority sect.

Fourthly in hajj, we don't hear of a bomb blast, and we don't hear of verbally abusing the revered personalities of the mainstream of Islam, but in Muharram especially they slander the companions directly and indirectly with full force, and certainly it's upsetting.

If they wish to curse the companions, or perform the mourning rituals, find a restricted area where they won't be able to disturb the rest of the masses. I wouldn't oppose it if all people were cursing the companions and mourning in this month in particular. It's just a sectarian ideology. People should keep their religion at their own door steps, they shouldn't impose it upon others.

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

This is nonsense!

This sectarian issue is not a 21st century phenomenon, we have had it for centuries. It dates back to Safavids of Iran, even before out of the rebellions against the Islamic caliphate.

The point is, these processions are controversial and sectarian; and such gatherings shouldn't be allowed in public so as to occupy the main streets of big cities and towns of a country.

[QUOTE]
as for your exaggeration; the whole country does not come to a stand still; and its only one day if not a couple of hours; out of a whole year. You think you could find bigger things to whinge about... Like the minorities being slained everyday in pak. Just for being a minority!!

[/QUOTE]

Because of these controversial mourning rituals and processions, there's a wave of violence before and after Aashura, bomb blasts, sectarian killings, what the heck! No sane country would allow such nonsense that caused this much violence.

And minorities being slain is a lie from minority sects. Majority is being slain is the actual problem. Everyday members of the majority or mainstream are killed in Pakistan because of lawlessness. It's a shame some people think only minority sect is human, the rest and the majority is garbage?

[QUOTE]
People hold protests every other day in the uk and the world; traffic and roads have to be temp blocked; its normal practise everywhere; not just in your city!!
[/QUOTE]

Don't give me examples of Kafirs. Or do you want to give the impression that these mourning processions are Un-Islamic?

And I have been in the UK; I know very well how much traffic is blocked over there because of such protests.

You'd make better sense if you compared these mourning processions with the protests!

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So they shouldn't be allowed because they are controversial? So only those should be allowed that agree with you or the majorities views?

Are you happy to ban any public gathering of any sorts? Or is it just the controversial ones that affront your senses?

[QUOTE]

Because of these controversial mourning rituals and processions, there's a wave of violence before and after Aashura, bomb blasts, sectarian killings, what the heck! No sane country would allow such nonsense that caused this much violence.
[/QUOTE]

These killings are occurring on a daily basis and not just around ashura, nor just on processions. They are occurring inside mosques and in buses. Would you like them banned too??

But you are right that no sane country would allow such violence. They would tighten security and apprehend the attackers beforehand; but this is pakistan. Sane is not a word you would use to describe it.

Take you for example; instead of blaming the attackers for the violence; you put the blame on the people who simply want to carry out their tradition. You are more offended at the juloos rather than the culprits. See the twisted logic = twisted brains.

[QUOTE]
And minorities being slain is a lie from minority sects. Majority is being slain is the actual problem. Everyday members of the majority or mainstream are killed in Pakistan because of lawlessness. It's a shame some people think only minority sect is human, the rest and the majority is garbage?
[/QUOTE]

Make your mind up. Either these sectarian attacks are occurring on ashura or they are not? You seem confused!!

And sectarian killings are a form of lawlessness dear; they are not excluded in anyway.

[QUOTE]
Don't give me examples of Kafirs. Or do you want to give the impression that these mourning processions are Un-Islamic?

And I have been in the UK; I know very well how much traffic is blocked over there because of such protests.

You'd make better sense if you compared these mourning processions with the protests!
[/QUOTE]

Im not sure what you are talking about here. My point is processions and parades occur everywhere... Including muharram ones! They are not specific to your country that you are so bothered....so stop whinging and find something better to do.

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

لَا يُحِبُّ اللَّهُ الْجَهْرَ بِالسُّوءِ مِنَ الْقَوْلِ إِلَّا مَنْ ظُلِمَ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ سَمِيعًا عَلِيمًا

[4:148] Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Allah (swt) loves the public utterance of speech if done to protest against injustice. Now slaying of Prophet's family (love of whom is a demand of Allah Himself) is a major injustice if not the greatest. Not to mention imprisonment of the others including the children and womenfolk of the Prophet's family who were made to travel more than 1,500 kms on the back of camels (one may still visit graves all along the route), paraded through public and denounced as 'rebels' against the accursed caliph of time, Yazid ibne Muawiya, before being put in prision.

These public processions are symbolic reenactment of the tragedy as well as an everlasting shout of protest that is echoed from the every corner of world. Lovers of Prophet and his Ahlul Bayt from all the sections of humanity take part in these processions. E.g., in the Karachi Ashura bombings in 2009, out of the 43 martyrs there were 15 Sunnis, 1 Christian, the rest of the souls being Shia.

Interestingly though is it not always the case that protests of different kinds, regardless of the great causes and aims behind them, slow down and eventually die down over time! But this global protest and rememberence of this tragedy keeps growing bigger and stronger with passing time. In my view this fact is another testimony of the promise to Prophet (saw) by Allah (swt) to grant his habib (and those"of him") in 'abundance'.

A couple of people mentioned the processions being in some way an act of the days of "Jahiliya". To start of with, not every act of Jahilliya is automatically disliked in shariah. In fact some are emphasized by Allah (swt) and emphasized in Quran such as command forbidding war and bloodshed in certain months of year including Muharram ul Haraam (ponder on the full name of the month). Muslims terrorists, the likes who blow themselves in the middle of crowd of Muharram processions, should be reminded of this command of Allah (swt). Actually if one examines the conducts of many famous so-called Muslims from the pages of Muslim history then the CVs that come to light might put the pre-Islamic day polytheists to shame!

And if one thinks that processions were not part of life during the early days of Islam then open a good book and check again. You may wish to read the accounts of the return of Muslim armies from various battles, the event of the arrival of Prophet (saww) in Madina, the occasion of Hajj particularly Hujjatul Widda, the many funerals of notable shohada like Hamza bin Abdul Muttalib where Prophet himself ordered or even led large numbers of people in processions. And if you wish to forward time a little and you may find a certain wife of Prophet (saww) leading processions of armies to battlefields (despite explicit prohibition by Allah in Quran and His Prophet via prior warnings). The king of Syria also organised processions to lament the murdered caliph, Uthman bin Affan (see: Sunni Imam Ibn Qutayba's Al-Imama wa Siyasa).

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

just to clarify a procession of jahiliya does not equate to sanctioning of bombing them. my comment is being mis-presented if this is what people are making of it.

i think this procession should be banned and if not then sent to the private grounds and empty fields

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

They shouldn't be allowed in public because they are a minority ritual and a minority or majority has no right to disturb the life of a whole city. If they have to worship then go to a particular place for that.

[QUOTE]
Are you happy to ban any public gathering of any sorts? Or is it just the controversial ones that affront your senses?

[/QUOTE]

Any loud and violent gatherings such as those of Aashura must be banned, they scare the kids off!

Do not make it a battlefield, it's not a war, do not act like an angry battalion that is full of rage. Keep you anger within your heads and sit at your own houses, do not show it off in public.

[QUOTE]
These killings are occurring on a daily basis and not just around ashura, nor just on processions. They are occurring inside mosques and in buses. Would you like them banned too??
[/QUOTE]

As I said this is not a new phenomena; violence has always been connected to the aashura processions, in all decades. Go open a book of history for the recent past for example.

[QUOTE]
But you are right that no sane country would allow such violence. They would tighten security and apprehend the attackers beforehand; but this is pakistan. Sane is not a word you would use to describe it.

[/QUOTE]

No sane nation should allow such violent processions as those of aashura.

They carry weapons and chemicals to torch buildings and vehicles with them. A couple of years ago, they torched business centres in the old Karachi and vehicles and banks etc because there was a terrorist attack on the procession.

Torching public and private property and vehicles is a norm to such people.

I hope you don't want me to provide you with links in order to prove the above?

[QUOTE]
Take you for example; instead of blaming the attackers for the violence; you put the blame on the people who simply want to carry out their tradition. You are more offended at the juloos rather than the culprits. See the twisted logic = twisted brains.
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps some people attack you because you incite hatred and cause controversy. The incitement of crime is as bad as is the crime.

[QUOTE]
Make your mind up. Either these sectarian attacks are occurring on ashura or they are not? You seem confused!!

[/QUOTE]

Sectarian attacks are perpetrated upon the aashura processions and from the attendants of such processions. Terrorists and extremists are on both sides.

[QUOTE]
And sectarian killings are a form of lawlessness dear; they are not excluded in anyway.

[/QUOTE]

That's why shut the door that opens sectarian killings.

[QUOTE]
Im not sure what you are talking about here. My point is processions and parades occur everywhere... Including muharram ones! They are not specific to your country that you are so bothered....so stop whinging and find something better to do.
[/QUOTE]

We don't care what's happening at other places, we only care for our own country. In our country these Muharram processions cause violence, killings and law and order problems. Simply ban them!

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Do not start it. This is not a discussion on your imams. We are talking about something else.

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Peace All,

Chalo mil kr dua karain ke 'Allah SWT hamary hukmaran, intazamia, or security ko hidayat dy woh hum akliyat or aksariyat waloon ke sahi tareeky se madad, hiffazat or tahaffuz karain.

Ameen. :)

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

What a crack up. This is turning out 10 times better than the ‘Humour’ forum. :hehe:

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Peace All,

[note]please stick to the topic instead of personal attacks. Thread reviewed and unlocked[/note]

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

I regret that may thread was taken as against a particular sect.

Lets make this clear, timing was before muharram as this starts the season of processions in pakistan, shia juloos, sunnis jaloos and seerah conferances, and then rabi ul awal.

Why it is so difficult to digest that if we forego certain rituals then the present heat (which we all can see is taking so many lives) can be brought down to minimal.It is not the count on that day that matters the most, the ferocity , hatred against each other(Do i need to post heated majalis speeches full of tabarra and then their responses kaffir kaffir type videos? ) that this environment creates , is i believe if elieminated can reduce the difference to acceptable level.

Similar thing happens in Rabiul Awal, processions which are just a replica of what shias do in muharram,(see karachi numaish roundabout these days) , if just these public display of your love of ahl e bayt or Prophet :saw2: is reduced to the level required by deen as approved by our prophet:saw2: then inshallah things will begin to improve.

Having said that ,

1- Some posters commented that this is against shias which i sugar coated, - i have been using this forum from the last 10years or so and dont have any multi. All my aqeedah and differences with shias is already documented. I dont have to sugar coat things , please note that having difference with some one do not automaticaly makes him/her your enemy.

2-

Parai shadi may abdullah deewana*- :hehe:

More to come some time later :slight_smile:

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

Terrorists also bombed Islamic Univeristy & shot Malala in the head.
Why don't all youth & girls stop going to schools as such gatherings aren't fardh or wajib, (they can study at home or even better online)so why not ban them at all for the time being.

Because we don't let terrorists dictate our lives. That is when they win.Simple.

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Re: Ban on processions-Religious rulings?

I would argue Milaad of Rasulallah is as much of a Bidah as many aspects of 12er imami processions
but thats just my opinion

I second this ban on religious processions