Re: Ban Loudspeaker
Guy1 Bhai,
Atleast Sharabi Bhai, made his stance very clear, when he said if any one has a Problem with Azan they should move out, It does not in any way mean I agree with him, but you on the other hand are just ranting, without even having the courtesy of contributing to the thread.
So I am going to ask you a Direct question, What Bhai if any is your opinion about the banning of Loud Speakers for calling the Faithful to prayers!!! by a “ISLAMIC COUNTRY”???
Aejaz
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
This is a statement which speaks volume regarding the state of the muslims around the world. When they(muslims themselves) start questioning the very essence of islam, you know we have lost our way. This is very sad indeed. (I am assuming Minime is a muslim).
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
I didn’t.
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
This is what dubai gave as a justification of their decision.
“Call on Allah or call on the All-Merciful, whichever you call upon, the Most Beautiful Names are His. Do not be too loud in your prayer or too quiet in it, but try to find a way between the two” (Surat Al Isra: 110),
I searched the net and got this book Written in TURKEY long ago, supporting the ban, take a look, Please copy paste it in the address bar without space.
http://books.hakikatkitabevi.com/cgi-bin/cgi.exe/
bksnfo31/query=[jump!3A!27!289!29!27]/doc/{@4878}?
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
To read the whole thing click the link I gave in #44 above. I had to split the link I gave bcoz the link does not appear in full when I post it. A small part of what is written under the link is given below.
Question: The voice on the radio is not the voice of the hâfiz qurrâ’, as proved scientifically, but it is still completely similar in all its harmonics. And the meaning is not distorted, either. Why should it not be permissible to listen to it?
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
These are from the book Endless Bliss Fascicle-4 **chapter 11- ADHAN and IQAMAT**
[It is written in the books Tabyin-ul-haqaiq and Tahtawi that, "Rasulullah 'sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam' said to Bilal-i Habashi, 'Put your two fingers on your ears, so that your voice will be louder.' It is better to put the hands on the ears. For, it is not a sunnat to do so to perform the adhan. Yet it is a sunnat to do so to increase the voice. For the angel who said the adhan in the (above-named Sahabi's) dream did not do so. It was made a sunnat not in order to recite the adhan but in order to increase the voice . For the causal clause, 'so that your voice will be louder,' points to the hikmat in doing it. If the fingers are not put on the ears, the adhan will be better. If they are put on the ears, the voice being louder will be better." It is seen that to put the fingers on the ears is not a sunnat for the adhan, although it increases the voice. But, because it has been commanded, it is not a bidat, either. It is understood that the loudspeakers used in some mosques today, although they increase the voice, are not sunnat for the adhan and are bidat, and besides this, they cause the sunnat of raising the fingers to the ears to be omitted. It is seen that minarets are not constructed for some mosques on which loudspeakers are placed. [It is stated in the three hundred and twenty-second page of the fifth volume of Fatawa-yi-Hindiyya, "It is permissible to build a minaret in order to have the quarter hear the voice. It is not permissible if it is impossible." This comes to mean that using a loudspeaker is not permissible].
0 - To say "Amin" for a prayer said by anyone but the imam nullifies namaz. For this reason, if the imam is conducting congregational prayer with a loudspeaker, when he says, "Walad'dallin," the namaz of those who say, "Amin" may become nullified. For the sound produced by the loud-speaker is not the imam's voice. It is some other sound produced by a metal plate that vibrates because of the magnetic power caused by electricity. Such sounds, which are originally caused by the human voice, are indistinguishable from their producers' voices,
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
we r still arguing over something whose details we r not even sure of
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
and this article from their local newspaper tells us that the ban is exactly what i stated earlier, just on the prayer and NOT on the azaan and iqamah…
the azaan and iqamah shall still be given on the loudspeaker because it is very well needed…
additionally the friday sermons, eid sermons and prayers, shall be given on the loudspeaker…
nothing wrong with such a ban…
bahrain has seen this ban from almost 10 years now…
Ban Loudspeaker
Then where is the problem in using it in prayers. Moreover our heart and minds will always be present and concentrated in our prayers when we hear the qirat of Imam, then roaming about in worldly matters.
If they consider it bad for prayers then I dont find it logical for them to use it in azan and Iqamah. Afterall azan, iqamah,eid sermons or any kind of good deeds are considered prayers in the eyes of Allah.
Don't you remember the hadith which goes somewhat this way,
"Anything that is forbidden in large quantity is also forbidden in small quantity."
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
^ azaan needs to be loud because it is an announcement....
the whole prayer is not....
why do u think bilal was the muezzin at the time of the Prophet (saw)????
because he had a loud voice....
now, when we have loud speakers, we use them....
and speakers r still used in the prayer, just the internal ones, which amplify the sound within the mosque, while those on the outside r used only for azan....
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
I understand the case of azan, armughal bhai, but what are they trying to explain us when they (Dubai Department of Islamic Affairs) say:BANNING OF LOUDSPEAKERS IN DAILY PRAYERS. I think the meaning is simple and clear i.e. NO kind of loudspeakers will be allowed in daily prayers.
** The sole purpose of loudspeaker (internal or external) is to make the voice loud, and that is what the name Loud - speaker *means. When D.D.I.A says BAN loudspeaker for daily prayers, armughal bhai… doesn’t your comment gets little contradictory when you say, “internal speakers are still used*
*What do you think they are trying to Ban then? External speakers for daily prayers? *
They didn’t mention that and I don’t think it has any meaning in announcing; publishing and making a big issue with debates just to ban external speakers for the daily prayers. Who do you think is gonna follow a congregation by hearing the external speaker from their houses without physically participating in it. Isn’t it utter useless to Ban external speaker when none uses it to pray daily prayers.
*I think the fact, which everyone can clearly understand from the published news is that, they are gonna SWITCH OFF EVERY kind of loudspeakers (internal or external) at the time of daily congregation. *
*The Big question that remains to be answered is “How are we gonna do our daily congregations when we can not hear the Qirat and thakbirs of Imam? *
Don’t tell me that you will follow the front guy. What if you are in Sujud?
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
In this age of electronic alam clocks, why does anyone has to be reminded his/her namaaz? Let the non-muslims sleep, it is their problem if they get sent to hell.
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
When Hazrat Bilal (RA) used to call adhan, there were pagans around that also heard his call, although they probably werent too thrilled to hear it.
When I drive to a certain part of the city, I can hear loud music blasted on loud speakers by car dealerships to attract customers. You can hear it a mile away its so loud. Nobody says a thing about it, despite how disturbing it is. And a lot of the time, the music is in Spanish and it plays for hours on end.
There is a church in the suburb I live in. I can hear the church bell despite living far from it. Everyone knows its the church bell and that church is in session.
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
bhai meray i am telling u that in bahrain we have a similar ban, the speakers on the outside r turned off during the jamaat, but inside they r kept running otherwise u'd not hear the imam....
believe me they mean to turn off only the speakers on the outside....
in old times they had a person appointed every fixed number of rows who wud repeat the takbeer behind the imaam so people behind him cud hear and follow....
is it just a coincidence that such a person was called "muakabbar" and arabic for a loudspekaer is also "mukabbar"....
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
Supreme court of India barred on July 18 the use of loud speakers between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM for any purpose. No muslims of India have complained about it.
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
Hmm… I see… so there is already an established system of performing prayer in a large congregation. They used Mukabbar to carry the thakbirs of Imam it seems.
Well, If Using Mukabbar (human) is what Allah and His Messenger taught us to do, then why didn’t we follow it? And why did we replace Their teaching with our inventions? Is it because we are more smarter then they?
If we continued praying with the Mukabbar system till today, we wouldn’t be simply wasting our time here for loudspeaker, fight for it’s use against Hindus in India, no time wasting debates in Dubai, No writing of books against its usage by many scholars (e.g. Endless Bliss), No disturbance in midway prayer if the current goes off, no publishing in newspapers and in the first place No trying to outsmart Allah and His Messenger's decisions, of course.
Why did we ignore Allah’s command when He said, “Do not be too loud in your prayers or too quiet in it,” Isn’t it crystal clear from this that, to be too loud is not allowed in prayer? And still we keep disobeying Him, and advocate using loudspeakers against His will. Why?
Armughal bhai, you may be right in saying that the word Mukabbar(as a coincidence), is used for both the Man (assistant Imams) and the Man-made *(loudspeaker). *But do you think it is wise to substitute a good thing for a bad one. I mean if you call “MAN” to a robot, does that robot become a man? No. It still remains a robot. Do you think any father will agree to barter his son in exchange of a robot? No again. Then How Can we expect our Allah to do it with his Mukabbar in exchange of some pieces of dead metals. Do you find it logical in anyway? Well, For instance, imagine ourselves in a big congregation and after each five lines of Muktadies a robot as mukabbar is put to mimic the Imams thakbirs. Don’t you think other religionist will laugh at us for playing this way with our own religion? Who knows may be in the near future we will start calling such a (devilish) prayer as a part of Modern & Moderate Islam. Allah forbids.
After inquiring about ‘Mukabbar’ with two of our local scholars, they told me that there are 6 pre-requisites and conditions to be qualified as a Mukabbar.
They are:
(1) Mukabbar should be a man or jinn. (Even Angels made of Nur will not be allowed.)
(2) Should be a living being. (Jandar)
(3) Should have faith. (Imandar)
(4) With sound mental Health. (Akaldar)
(5) Should be over the age of Puberty. (Baleg)
(6) Should be praying with the other Muktadies in the same jamat.
Now tell me which of these 6 conditions does our modern Mukabbar (loudspeaker) fulfill or have, that we are blindly following it five times a day? Moreover when an Imam says “Samiallahu leman hamidah” Mukabbar behind him should say “Rabbana walakal hamd”. Is our so-called “Mukabbar sahib” telling “Rabbana wa…” at that time? NO!!
At this point a question may be asked to my fellow Gupshup members as, what religion we were discussing all this time? Is it that Islam which our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught us, or a newly Modified, Metallic, and an Innovated Islam?
Thank you armughal Bhai for telling about the Mukabbar, which led me to do some research on it. Thank you again for the knowledge.
I hope everybody stop blindly following what Mullahs does,and think becoz its not they going to answer our deeds but we ourselves.
Quote from Hadith
“Beware of novelty*(new things)* in religion, for every novelty is an innovation and every innovation is a misguidance. Verily Allah has blocked every innovator from repentance until he abandons it.” Narrated by Thirmizi.
“Whoever rejects my sunnah is not from me.” Narrated by Al Bukhari and Muslim. (Putting mukabbar is a sunnah no longer in use)
“Pray as you have seen me praying” Narrated by Al Bukhari.
“Whoever performed a deed which is not from this matter of ours, will have it rejected. (on the last day)” Narrated by Muslim.
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
I get your point regarding non-Muslims hearing the call of prayer, but back in the good old days there were no loudspeakers which can intrude on someones privacy, Hz Bilal surely was not breaking the solund barrier.
We are discussing Islamic values not the Spanish musical etiquettes. Question we need to ask is whether we as Muslims have the right to intrude into others homes and offices?
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
Ladies and agentleman , We the authorities of awqaf of cairo are very pleased to inform you that by the unwill of Allah we have removed every single Muazzins from our mosque employed to give azan.After a long time we have been able to kick out one of the greatest sunnah of our Prophet Muhammed from Islam. We have installed a dish anteana over every mosque and a reciever is set inside the mosque. A central mosque is selected where from the azan will be transmitted and azan will be blasting out of every mosque altogether in the whole district.Adhearing to age old sunnah in this modern time is not practicle as this religion also requires renovation. there is no need to adhere to sunnah. As it is useless to follow them.
When Loudspeaker was introduced in Islam cancelling and kicking out a lot of sunnah, No Sunni ever raised a voice. Sameway Hoping that no body will raise a voice this time,we have cut out the sunnah of muazzin form our Islam.
Even though some of the mutawas do not agree with us, we are not going to give them any heed. Our aim is to modify and innovate in Islam and change it to the current trends. This age old religion should no more remain the same. We will entertain all kind of technologies that can be used to modify it. In the future we may use Alarm Azan Clock to give azan, Install television which will transmit live video footage of the imam of makkah al mukarramah and we all will be praying together with the makkah. Maybe in the future you may not have to come to the mosque even as the footage can be transmitted directly to your living room and you can pray at the comforts of your home. We want to make this traditional islam a digital one.
Some of the hadith given by those who reject our decision are
“Beware of novelty*(new things)* in religion, for every novelty is an innovation and every innovation is a misguidance. Verily Allah has blocked every innovator from repentance until he abandons it.” Narrated by Thirmizi.
“Whoever rejects my sunnah is not from me.” Narrated by Al Bukhari and Muslim. (Putting mukabbar is a sunnah ,giving azan outside the mosque is a sunnah, giving it from a high place is a sunnah, turning the face to the right and left while giving azan is a sunnah which are no longer in use. Instead we have entertained something which is MAKRUH, giving azan inside the mosque is maqruh.)
“Pray as you have seen me praying” Narrated by Al Bukhari.
“Whoever performed a deed which is not from this matter of ours, will have it rejected. (on the last day)” Narrated by Muslim.
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
I know a Musjid in the area that was asked to take down the outdoor speakers because it was a 'public disturbance'.
However, when we stated that Church bells and Gospel/Pslams/Christmas songs were in the same category, nothing was done about it...
Re: Ban Loudspeaker
No churches in our area ring the bells and that for many many years.