Muzna - with all due respect and recognizing/appreciating the efforts made by certain members of the team for more then a decade , I still dont comprehend this ' My way or high way ' sort of response for the closure of a matter ...
C'mon you guys are way mature and experienced to handle such situation rather then stating ' I am not going to entertain it any more ' or ' chew that ' ..
I mean Administration doesnt need to apologetic about GS policies but yet there is not need of closing the matter by literally ' showing some'one the middle finger in words '...
And yes you guys have walked million miles in some big shoes for 15 years - but you cant just undermine the efforts made by general users contributing on this site from ages .. Million and million of posts on this forum arent just made only by moderators /Administration ...
Err so you lot sit there spying on people and judging us when really, you shouldn’t be judging anyone because I could have sworn there was a massive thread a couple of weeks ago about how no one should judge anyone else Jokes aside, you don’t really see the bigger picture because a lot of the time there’s plain and simple hypocrisy where some members are labelled troublemakers while some can never seem to get enough warnings. But perhaps that is just an online representation of the world we live in. I’m easy with that.
Also, I don’t see how running an internet forum for fifteen years makes you an authority on people and any better at conflict resolution or making decisions. Because from the issues I have seen in my short stay here, it seems like there’s constantly something or the other popping up and nothing is really resolved but only pushed under the carpet. I never see much in the way of resolution and for examples, have a go in this particular forum. Okay fine, in some instances you take a stand but then the brush should paint the entire canvas, not just bits and pieces. Either apply your rules on everyone or don’t bother applying them.
A prime example of what everyone is talking about.
You’re essentially saying ‘Oh so you guys think we’re a power hungry Admin team?! Let me show you what I can do!’
I mean is that really the attitude you should be projecting as a President? This place is important to you but you should be willing to let others have a say too. Just because someone attacks you doesn’t mean you should just ban them or whatever. You should engage them and ask them why they are attacking you and what reasons do they have. Conflict resolution is a skill many need on this forum. When you directly engage them, you will find out what people think and why and maybe you will be more aware of what is going on.
Maybe I’m missing something? Obviously I care, as my posts in this thread do show but only because its a good place to interact with people sometimes so that’s a positive and its a bit aggravating when criticism isn’t taken onboard. We wouldn’t be here if we didn’t want to be. And no one in this thread has made a personal attack on the team trying to run this place. We’re all speaking our minds. You can look at it from your team’s POV or from the POV of a whole lot of people on this forum. It won’t hurt to consider their opinions and grievances. I always think any criticism, even unjustified is something that needs
to be worked on. But that’s just me.
A suggestion is to look at the entire team and review people. Maybe they are causing a lot of this resentment? Maybe you’re not the cause of anything but just trying to protect your team. But maybe they’re not really putting the whole picture in front of you. I don’t think you as a President are all out to get people but I think you need to keep an eye on the people you trust to manage this place.
Either way, I’ve ranted enough. I’m out of this thread. Have a good one people!
I just want to say one thing. NomiCA opened this thread to criticize backseat mods but ended up being one himself and few other members probably got played by him. You guys think that mods and admins are not going to do anything about it when you don't even know that this topic has been already discussed in the admins/mods forum and obviously they are going to take some measures.
You give your suggestion in feedback forum and then you move on, otherwise you end up being a backseat mod yourself. Thanks
Muzna - with all due respect and recognizing/appreciating the efforts made by certain members of the team for more then a decade , I still dont comprehend this ' My way or high way ' sort of response for the closure of a matter ...
C'mon you guys are way mature and experienced to handle such situation rather then stating ' I am not going to entertain it any more ' or ' chew that ' ..
You are right......99.99% of the membership of this forum deserves better.
Unfortunately the vast majority of them were not participating in this thread.
I mean Administration doesnt need to apologetic about GS policies but yet there is not need of closing the matter by literally ' showing some'one the middle finger in words '...
Glad to know that someone realizes there is no need for the Administration to be apologetic.....unfortunately you must also be familiar with the saying: "laatoN kay bhoot......."
I am privy to much more than I am willing to share here. Those that are guilty are fully aware of their actions and have done many of you a disservice by setting you all up.
And yes you guys have walked million miles in some big shoes for 15 years - but you cant just undermine the efforts made by general users contributing on this site from ages .. Million and million of posts on this forum arent just made only by moderators /Administration ...
Absolutely correct! I agree completely!
The vast majority of our membership have been here long enough to know that we have no personal agendas, ulterior motives or even any gain from this site save for the feeling of satisfaction that comes from being able to deliver a service to the global Pakistani community.
It is precisely for those members that I cannot allow a handful of rotten apples to destroy the experience that is respected as GupShup.
Thank you Naabigh for your well-written and tactful feedback.
I just want to say one thing. NomiCa opened this thread to criticize backseat mods but ended up being one himself and few other members probably got played by him. You guys think that mods and admins are not going to do anything about it when you don't even know that this topic has been already discussed in the admins/mods forum and obviously they are going to take some measures.
You give your suggestion in feedback forum and then you move on, otherwise you end up being a backseat mod. Thanks
Which is exactly what he's done. Members don't have access to the mod forum, so unless they have ilm-e-ghaib they have no way of telling whether the issue has been addressed or not.
On evidence of this thread, I think the feedback forum should be closed down. Clearly this is a site with an autocratic management who don't understand the term feedback so that renders this forum a bit useless.
Which is exactly what he's done. Members don't have access to the mod forum, so unless they have ilm-e-ghaib they have no way of telling whether the issue has been addressed or not.
On evidence of this thread, I think the feedback forum should be closed down. Clearly this is a site with an autocratic management who don't understand the term feedback so that renders this forum a bit useless.
Are you oblivious to the dozens of other threads where the membership is able to use the forum to their advantage or do you think that your opinion alone should be considered correct?
Which is exactly what he's done. Members don't have access to the mod forum, so unless they have ilm-e-ghaib they have no way of telling whether the issue has been addressed or not.
On evidence of this thread, I think the feedback forum should be closed down. Clearly this is a site with an autocratic management who don't understand the term feedback so that renders this forum a bit useless.
After Niksik and BBQ's detailed replies NomiCA came up with this reply:
Thanks for clarification.................I now understand that backseat modding is perfectly alright as per GS policy.......... please correct me if i am wrong in what i wrote in bold...before this thread gets locked too....
I find such irrational behaviour very annoying when you have obviously made up your mind and you're not going to come to any resolution.
Well I think we are just beating the bush here now ... nothing Positive will come out of this ..
Let me end my feedback by agreeing with Muzna's statement where she said ' Some housekeeping is needed ' - Surely there is some required with a positive attitude - by which I mean not taking the friendly advices/suggestions given by Valueable memebers ( I bet I am not certainly one of them ) as back seat moderating ..
As much as this place has been a home for Muzna and rest of her team - it has also been a sanctuary for people like me - who literally grew on this site . Physically and mentally both .
My grievance - If I could sum it in one line ' Although err is human but I expect Moderators not making the same mistakes / actions , on which they moderate others ' ..
I am Not finger pointing on team performance as it may be taken but err is human and yes there are some loop holes - easily controllable by revisiting GS policies .
how you do that - we leave it on your discretion ..
I have to respectfully disagree that nothing good can come out of this. I think that your sensible and well-articulated feedback will open at least a couple of eyes and show an aspect that, perhaps, was not seen before. At least this is my hope.
Your grievance is taken on board and I can assure you that all members of our staff make their very best effort to do a good job. Yes, you are right, sometimes they do make mistakes and we can only help them to learn from those errors. At the end of the day, we recognize that they are volunteers and we move on. Your expectations are not unreasonable.....and we will continue to strive towards them. I can only assure you of that.
The problem lies when certain individuals make sincere efforts to create senseless controversy and therefore unnecessary work for these volunteers.
Hareem's assessment of NomiCA's posts is not a stretch. Couple that with the numerous complaints we have on hand for this member's behaviour in other areas and then multiply that with the "Likes" of members that contribute little other than egging on those that take up stances against the Administration of this site and you will be able to understand the mindset that exists behind our responses.
I appreciate the confidence you place in us as a membership and hope that we can continue to deliver.....
ok… i criticized the backseat mod…asked about a policy… how did i end up being one?? did i say do this or do that??
the precise difference between feedback (as my thread here) and backseat modding is that…backseat mod is posting and ‘modding’ in threads everywhere… whereas i just asked a question on whether a policy existed in feedback forum…if the backseat mod were to open threads in feedback or use report button…i wouldn’t have to open a thread here…so i think u would now know what the difference is between ‘backseat modding’ and ‘feedback/report’…
when you use terms like ‘others got played’…it just amazes me…that you would imagine some member (me here) came up with a plan to ‘play’ others…and start a conspiracy against management or something…
and Yes…i did move on…after TLK’s reply…i asked him to lock the thread…you can see that post still…or ask TLK himself…i was done with my ‘conspiracy’ …but then someone felt the need to re-open the thread and here you are…
I am just disappointed that you consider the general membership of the forum to be so dumb that they would be ‘set up’ for something…care to explain what were they all ‘set up’ to??
Did you miss the second part that says this** ““please correct me if i am wrong in what i wrote in bold…before this thread gets locked too…””“”** that is called asking for final clarification before thread gets locked…and you also missed my post where i asked TLK to close the thread…did that seem like looking for a fight to you?
it was not a conflict resolution…from varying degree of vague replies..i had to make a straight unambiguous statement to get clarity…you can find that annoying all you want…and insinuate that some ‘consipiracy’ is being hatched…but thats upto you…
Sure you can call it ‘irrational’ behaviour…becoz you are enjoying the position of power…i am sure if some member said that any behaviour by a mod or CM was irrational they would get infraction points…
Hareem's assessment of NomiCA's posts is not a stretch. Couple that with the numerous complaints we have on hand for this member's behaviour in other areas and then multiply that with the "Likes" of members that contribute little other than egging on those that take up stances against the Administration of this site and you will be able to understand the mindset that exists behind our responses.
Just tell everyone who re-opened the locked thread......would you please??
i myself asked the thread to be locked..........i don't know how you can assume that i was looking for fights or whatever.....
and as far as 'this members' complaints are considered.......... why don't you tell me what complaints you have against me.........believe me in every system of accountability or administration there is a rule of ''giving an opportunity of being heard''.............. you need to let the memeber know the accusations/complaints against them and give a chance to explain before you make a judgement and based on that you make assumptions on what someone posts in any other thread....
If i am not mistaken.........a person (especially MOD, CM,ADMIN) is supposed to evaluate any post based on the content posted...........and not on who posted it.........
I am just appointed that you consider the general membership of the forum to be so dumb that they would be 'set up' for something...............care to explain what were they all 'set up' to??
when you are done being "appointed" about it....then go back and read again......I never said anything about the "general membership".....I referred to those participating in this thread.
And finally........about criticizing management and all.........
what i honestly don't ever understand is........ how a handulf of members discussing/posting against management is an issue here...........they are just a handful members......they can't do anything with the power structure in place here.............and the management needs to understand that the members are aware of how much impact/influence/threat they can pose to management here................i hope the management understands that too.........
If someone criticizes the management...what do you think their motives are???
they wan't the site to have bad name??
to bring about a 'fall of management'??
to scare people away from the site??
to cause any harm to the site/community??
I can speak for myself.......i criticize the management actions because i care for this place.......and by care i mean the community and care doesn't mean ''not criticizing the management'.........if i want some changes/amendments in how this place is run, as a member, i would like to voice my concerns.........the decision is always with the management and everybody understands that........all that is being asked is a 'sympathetic ear' to members critical feedback.......
no one is here to undermine the management or bring about a downfall of the site/community................. the criticism is about the management and not the people......... if you are going to take everything as personal attack you just limit the possibilities.
and you still don't get it........or are pretending not to get it.....
this is not about criticizing management.......it is about the defiant behaviour that you know full well you and a handful of individuals exhibit.
when you are politely asked to discontinue, you make a mockery of the reprimand and the member of staff delivering it to you.
would you like me to post the screen shots of your antics in the chat room?
how about we post those of philo and rizla too?
unfortunately you have managed to lose all credibility with "management"
Jokes aside, you don’t really see the bigger picture because a lot of the time there’s plain and simple hypocrisy where some members are labelled troublemakers while some can never seem to get enough warnings. But perhaps that is just an online representation of the world we live in. I’m easy with that.
…but then someone felt the need to re-open the thread and here you are…