Areas are breaking away?

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

There are many people on this board whos hearts are with Altaf Hussain but they guise themselves in good words.

The Problem of Northern areas will come to haunt Pakistan sooner or later, you whether you develop them or not. Afghans more specifically Pakhtoons have always maintained that they do not beleive in Durand line and they have their areas inducted in Pakistan.

I am not certain of the politics behind many other threads.

In regards to the Durand Line, I think there is huge perception gap between Pak/Pakhtuns-Pakistanis-Afghanis. Despite my personal support for Pakistan, I see the Durand as a soft border at best. While more nationalist Pakhtuns see it as an imaginary line. Afghanis have a much radical view of greater Pakhtunkhwa.

Bombings in FATA where civilians are hurt are obviously unacceptable and in my opinion, creating an anti-Pakistan sentiment, where none existed previously. Pakistan has brutal a track record of crushing ethnic groups like the Baluchis, Bengalis of the past. I would hope that policy makers are more careful this time around.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

@Iconoclast

Altaf Hussain

Mashallah, you guys are getting better. It was only on the 40th post, this name was mentioned in a thread about a completely different subject. I am proud of you. Keep it up. :k:

[antiobl]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

..... Afghans .... have always maintained that they do not beleive in Durand line and they have their areas inducted in Pakistan.

Just continue repeating the failed stuff as to how Afghanis didn't "believe" in Durand line.

These leftie-Afghans utterly ignore that the same line provided safety during Commie invasion.

Durand line is like a boundary (char-diwari) of a house. If you live in a house, you are the first to protect its char-diwari.

If you don't care about your char-diwari then every Tom, Dick, Harry, karakov, ranjit, bin-biddu, and Agha will come "enjoy" your house.

Off course bunch of nomadic tribes won't know the value of char-diwari until it is too late.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

What's going on in these areas is so terrible. I really was shocked to see the militants televised in these reports. The way they cover their faces. I thought I was looking at a picture of Afghanistan, with the way they were behaving. They're fully armed - they're being funded somehow. This is terrible. The fact that the maulana is on the move and the government can't get him speaks volumes of the inefficiency of the government armed forces.

And people here need to quit being sensitive. I don't see anyone painting all NWFPers with the same brush. We all know that 99% of civilians in the province are innocent, but the fact of the matter is

a. This has been going on for a while in NWFP, and its been growing - all these innocent peace loving people have been supporting the MMA which has been fostering this. For some time you've seen anti-western movements, like shutting down/bombing of CD shops and movie theatres, etc - and what has the population have to say about this? I haven't seen an uproar.

b. Maulana Fazlullah hasn't been speaking to thin air - people are listening to his radio shows. He has support. When they killed the doctor coming to deliver polio vaccines, the entire NWFP should have taken this guy and thrown him in the SWAT river.

I don't buy this "We're not at all responsible"

But I will say that NWFP folks are not directly involved in this. And every Pakistani has been silent. I blame the media that gives MMA-type hardliners coverage and supports them; and I blame the other forces in the country for their apathy and anti-musharraf stance in all this. Its allowed for these guys to take control, and that's not acceptable. Pakistanis are going to pay for their blunders. Mark my words - this is not going to end in 2 years or 1 year. This is going to explode pretty soon. These Taliban are the real Taliban - the same guys who are in Afghanistan. From what I've been reading, the Taliban arent doing too shabby out in Afghanistan either - 3 cities have fallen in the past week or so.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

What's going on in these areas is so terrible. I really was shocked to see the militants televised in these reports. The way they cover their faces. I thought I was looking at a picture of Afghanistan, with the way they were behaving. They're fully armed - they're being funded somehow. This is terrible. The fact that the maulana is on the move and the government can't get him speaks volumes of the inefficiency of the government armed forces.

Isn't it funny that reporters of foreign broadcasting agencies are invited in these areas and shown the captured soldiers. And what President wants is to curb judiciary and media to fight them.

Somebody had been enjoying "unity of command" for 8 years. It was his job to take action not that of ordinary people of NWFP.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Iconoclast, with a superficial glance at things, it does look odd. But the videos show that the army is actively fighting in SWAT and that Radio Mullah is not enjoying his usual chai shai in the afternoons under a tree. He's on the move and he's being chased.

As for reporters being taken up there, sure - there were reporters that were being taken up to see OBL some time back. Remember, these guys want to communicate with the rest of Pakistan and muslims around the world. They want to be known because they want support. So, yeah, they'll bring up a reporter to their dwellings, treat him well, so he takes a nice video and gets it telecasted. They know the GEO, ARY, AAJ , etc guys are off air, so MMA is not getting its chance to really make a drama like they did with the Lal Masjid affair.

Last thing I want to see is people being sympathetic to these jerks. I don't have a problem with devout people - if you are religious, that's great. But if you have to stand there fully armed, evading military foces and justice, hiding behind a a.m. frequency to get your message across to the world about how "boo hoo, we should be ruling the world", then BULL! That's not Islam, and that's a shame that our people would ever support such things.

If you can see sympathy on GS for this nonsense by some posters - its not surprising a substantial portion of Pakistan supports these goons. Until and unless families get hurt by them. Then its a different story.

I'm sorry, but I don't think the majority of Pakistanis would be ok with changing their lifestyles to Taliban lifestyle. Just not acceptable. Its not Islamic, and they're perverting our religion. And some of our people, like total idiots, are supporting them.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

This moulana is only being chased NOW but word about what he has been doing this for years but he was given freedom to do whatever he likes, so that some total idiots can be made to beleive that one person shud be allowed to deny people of Pakistan their civil liberties to fight off Mulla Fazlu. And the total idiots have happily bought it that let democracy, constitution and liberties be crushed to figt a rag tag Mulla who used to be a cable operator few years ago.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

no doubt, the Pakistani government should have been more aggressive, but the things happening in Waziristan - I don't know whether anyone could have gotten more aggressive. And like you said, he was a cable operator. People thought he was a joke. But when the polio vaccine incident happened, I was surprised there wasn't a greater uproar.

Part of this goes back to the FATA deal with the government, historically. The government has never had full control in that region, and that's allowed extremists to take root there. Its their perfect roosting place.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Swat is not in FATA. It was in full government control. Waziristan is a differetn story.

[Monk]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

What's going on in these areas is so terrible. I really was shocked to see the militants televised in these reports. The way they cover their faces. I thought I was looking at a picture of Afghanistan, with the way they were behaving. They're fully armed - they're being funded somehow. This is terrible. The fact that the maulana is on the move and the government can't get him speaks volumes of the inefficiency of the government armed forces.

And people here need to quit being sensitive. I don't see anyone painting all NWFPers with the same brush. We all know that 99% of civilians in the province are innocent, but the fact of the matter is

a. This has been going on for a while in NWFP, and its been growing - all these innocent peace loving people have been supporting the MMA which has been fostering this. For some time you've seen anti-western movements, like shutting down/bombing of CD shops and movie theatres, etc - and what has the population have to say about this? I haven't seen an uproar.

b. Maulana Fazlullah hasn't been speaking to thin air - people are listening to his radio shows. He has support. When they killed the doctor coming to deliver polio vaccines, the entire NWFP should have taken this guy and thrown him in the SWAT river.

I don't buy this "We're not at all responsible"

But I will say that NWFP folks are not directly involved in this. And every Pakistani has been silent. I blame the media that gives MMA-type hardliners coverage and supports them; and I blame the other forces in the country for their apathy and anti-musharraf stance in all this. Its allowed for these guys to take control, and that's not acceptable. Pakistanis are going to pay for their blunders. Mark my words - this is not going to end in 2 years or 1 year. This is going to explode pretty soon. These Taliban are the real Taliban - the same guys who are in Afghanistan. From what I've been reading, the Taliban arent doing too shabby out in Afghanistan either - 3 cities have fallen in the past week or so.

**
blah blah blah

And all that happening in a era of a dictator-- who get his tenure longer every time unrest happens in pakistan, is JUST a coincident????????????**

[Ali_R]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

Some updates on SWAT Situation:

[quote]

**Militants capture Kalam in Swat Valley **PESHAWAR, Nov 7 (AFP): Dozens of paramilitary troops and police surrendered their weapons to militants and retreated from the mountain town of Kalam in Swat Valley early Wednesday, a police official said. Announcements about the advance were made on a pirate FM radio station run by Mullah Fazlullah, as militants hoisted their party flag on police stations and government buildings, and distributed sweets. Fazlullah's aide, Maulana Shah Dauran, said in a radio address that the militants also took control of a paramilitary base in Kalam manned by a platoon. Some 40 Frontier Corps soldiers had left the paramilitary base before the militants arrived, residents said. Militants have seized more than two-thirds of Swat Valley in northwest Pakistan.
[/quote]

I would never question the revolt in 1999, but he has had his good times and did precise judgement to protect Pakistan from the Western powers by affilitate Pak on the Western strength. But this has become history.
Now Musharraf has to understand his not so important role in Pak Politics and should lay down his dictatorship. Free those longing for democracy, whilst concentrating on his actual suitable role as a General to think of military measures against militants and extremists.

I used to be very upset with America and Pak's relation at great Bhutto's time. Now I'm very worried about Pak's situation at Musharraf's time.

[Monk]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

[quote]

**Militants capture Kalam in Swat Valley **PESHAWAR, Nov 7 (AFP): Dozens of paramilitary troops and police surrendered their weapons to militants and retreated from the mountain town of Kalam in Swat Valley early Wednesday, a police official said. Announcements about the advance were made on a pirate FM radio station run by Mullah Fazlullah, as militants hoisted their party flag on police stations and government buildings, and distributed sweets. Fazlullah's aide, Maulana Shah Dauran, said in a radio address that the militants also took control of a paramilitary base in Kalam manned by a platoon. Some 40 Frontier Corps soldiers had left the paramilitary base before the militants arrived, residents said. Militants have seized more than two-thirds of Swat Valley in northwest Pakistan.

[/quote]

I wonder what our braver ISI jawans were doing when mullah was set up radio station.
hmmmm
ohhh wait
they were busy helping out rulers prolonging their rule.
That very important work too. more important then county going on civil way... wouldn't you agree

[lakkis25]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

@Rebel_X

that would be akin to kill a cockroach infestation in your home with a 44 magnum
there can be times like when they are having their terrorist get togethers and a smart bomb is used…although the smart bombs are usually not so smart…or if their training camps are just introduced to some daisy cutters, but if they are in groups in a crowded market or meeting in teh basement of some boys school, then what do you do.

Very simple, ask the terrorist to have togethers in out of town where there is no public and then bomb them
Yaar sub kuch humein hi batane padega kya

[Ali_R]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

@knockout_artist

I wonder what our braver ISI jawans were doing when mullah was set up radio station. hmmmm ohhh wait they were busy helping out rulers prolonging their rule. That very important work too. more important then county going on civil way... wouldn't you agree

Could someone elaborate from where they deal their strategies? Who is backing them? Is Afghanistan and Mullah Jee on the Radio the main source to lead them through these heights? They need adequate access to Intel for such huge task. I don't agree on the simple basis that the training of ISI and CIA have made them so strong. Believing they can even scare off Pak's strong Army Men?! Somethings very fishy and I'd rather like to bet the Government is behind it. Far fetched, heah?!

[shawaiz_K]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Just continue repeating the failed stuff as to how Afghanis didn't "believe" in Durand line.

These leftie-Afghans utterly ignore that the same line provided safety during Commie invasion.

Durand line is like a boundary (char-diwari) of a house. If you live in a house, you are the first to protect its char-diwari.

If you don't care about your char-diwari then every Tom, Dick, Harry, karakov, ranjit, bin-biddu, and Agha will come "enjoy" your house.

Off course bunch of nomadic tribes won't know the value of char-diwari until it is too late.

The nomadic tribes of Pakhtukhwa are more aware of the value of chahar dewari than the slum-dwellers of Kiranchi. That is why they always defendend and respected the Durand line as an international border. The Durand line would have already been redrawn, and certainly in Afghanistan's favour, if the job of its defence had been given to the Glorious Army.

[Monk]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

@Ali_R

Could someone elaborate from where they deal their strategies? Who is backing them? Is Afghanistan and Mullah Jee on the Radio the main source to lead them through these heights? They need adequate access to Intel for such huge task. I don't agree on the simple basis that the training of ISI and CIA have made them so strong. Believing they can even scare off Pak's strong Army Men?! Somethings very fishy and I'd rather like to bet the Government is behind it. Far fetched, heah?!

I am sorry for the language I am going to use.

I feel like pulling my hair out every time I hear a person who is being touched by pakistans political situation ask those questions.

I wan't to ask a simple question. Where was ISI when fazlullah was setting up fm radio station????????
We pakis new it from bbc-urdu and from other paper, for over a year, that people were setting up private radio staion for religious extremism.

There were clashes among militants in sawat area before.
But that time our freakin rulers had more important jobs at hand. Like making sure they could stay in president house for a long frakin time.

This situation didn't develop over night.
Only problems in big cites get Govt.'s attention.
Sad but true govt. don't care about people as much as they care about being in power.
And even more sad is WE are ok with that.
To answer your question getting weapons any where in pakistan is not a big deal. Any one can get it.

[Captain1]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

@Ali_R

Could someone elaborate** from where they deal their strategies*? Who is backing them? Is Afghanistan and Mullah Jee on the Radio the main source to lead them through these heights? **They need adequate access to Intel for such huge task. I don't agree on the simple basis that the training of ISI and CIA have made them so strong. Believing they can even scare off Pak's strong Army Men?!* Somethings very fishy** and I'd rather like to bet the Government is behind it. Far fetched, heah?!

That is what I have been saying, they can't be so "strong" without having some active support from within some army/intelligence agency, they can't have continuous supply of arms and intelligence, Bin Laden is not "billionaire", he was rich but very likely exhausted his resource (if he money was really used). People say that these guys are using poppy money from Afghanistan... hey who is controlling Afghanistan? Why have we not sealed the borders if the money/weapons are flowing in from there? No body from government has given statement to international media complaining of such flow of money/weapons from Afghanistan etc.

[Ali_R]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

@knockout_artist

I am sorry for the language I am going to use.

I feel like pulling my hair out every time I hear a person who is being touched by pakistans political situation ask those questions.

I wan't to ask a simple question. Where was ISI when fazlullah was setting up fm radio station???????? We pakis new it from bbc-urdu and from other paper, for over a year, that people were setting up private radio staion for religious extremism.

There were clashes among militants in sawat area before. But that time our freakin rulers had more important jobs at hand. Like making sure they could stay in president house for a long frakin time.

This situation didn't develop over night. Only problems in big cites get Govt.'s attention. Sad but true govt. don't care about people as much as they care about being in power. And even more sad is WE are ok with that. To answer your question getting weapons any where in pakistan is not a big deal. Any one can get it.

knockout_artist,

I agree, that the government has had other task on hand. But I can not satisfy myself with this answer only. It's the responsibility of our Intelligence Service to keep track of such activities and yes they where aware of all situations in borders, on borders and beyond borders. And yet nothing has been done to avoid it. Why??
I'm pretty sure that Karzai must have had is laughing spree when reading about the militants and their work to perfection in Northern Areas of Pak. Has Musharraf been (once again) betrayed by his own Army Staff?!? I suppose there are inner conflicts in the Army going on right now and Musharraf is loosing control of situations more and more. He was in danger by his own comrades all times. Are these the last breathers of our Army Chief, before he disappears like his fellow Zia??

[Ali_R]

Re: Areas are breaking away?

@Captain1

That is what I have been saying, they can't be so "strong" without having some active support from within some army/intelligence agency, they can't have continuous supply of arms and intelligence, Bin Laden is not "billionaire", he was rich but very likely exhausted his resource (if he money was really used). People say that these guys are using poppy money from Afghanistan... hey who is controlling Afghanistan? Why have we not sealed the borders if the money/weapons are flowing in from there? No body from government has given statement to international media complaining of such flow of money/weapons from Afghanistan etc.

Realizing that money does matter in any case, I can not be sure how bigger part money plays when you face your enemy on the battefield face to face and in real time.
Somethings a real pain in my a.... Poppy money ok let's not deal with it! Let them buy their guns and bombs. But wasn't Taliban the one who used to spread rumours about burning off most of poppy plantations. A good cause in the name of God to end druggies and drug dealers all over the world. We believed! And then came NA and planted, planted and kept on planting to ensure a fix income for their good living and keep themselves in power.
What happened to the militants of Sawat? Are they some mix race? Is Mullah Jee half NA and yet Taliban? Or just a hypocrite crying for fame and infinite power lead by some unknown and yet very powerful forces.

[hareem01]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

@pak-one

^

Thanks for posting the videos. From the same source:

From GEO:

Who know that the same country that the forefathers agreed to join would be bombing us 60 years later?

I can’t see any difference between zionist western soldiers and Pakistani soldiers. Both are the brutal murderers and killers of innocent human beings.