Areas are breaking away?

[Rebel_X]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

why pakistan is not using air force to get rid of scums?

that would be akin to kill a cockroach infestation in your home with a 44 magnum :)
there can be times like when they are having their terrorist get togethers and a smart bomb is used...although the smart bombs are usually not so smart...or if their training camps are just introduced to some daisy cutters, but if they are in groups in a crowded market or meeting in teh basement of some boys school, then what do you do.

[Rebel_X]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

First of all they're not rabbid, and secondly they're not all bad people. Most are just disheartened and discontent with the situation and their under-appreciation. The few trouble makers are ironically the ones that are well off, and have or have had some sorta link with the establishment in the past.

dude..oh yeah they are rabid, the type of ppl that would get kids to slaughter some captured guy on TV are rabid in every sense of the word.

yeah they may not all be bad people, they may in their minds be thinking that they are doing the right thing, but that does not excuse their excesses. ignorance is not a good excuse.

and u know, many ppl who post here are disheartened and discontent, heck I am dicontent with how these morons are allowed to just walk around, but does that mean I become a vigilante and start throwing molotove cocktails at their hangouts? not that i know how to make molotive cocktails. mojito and margarita is a whole diff thing :D so that excuse does not fly either.

and as far as the few trouble makers go, shouldnt they be just tossed in prison to rot? the types who have indoctrined simpletons to think they are some sort of soldiers of faith when they go after innocent ppl?

[Abdali]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

[teggy]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

dude..oh yeah they are rabid, the type of ppl that would get kids to slaughter some captured guy on TV are rabid in every sense of the word.

yeah they may not all be bad people, they may in their minds be thinking that they are doing the right thing, but that does not excuse their excesses. ignorance is not a good excuse.

and u know, many ppl who post here are disheartened and discontent, heck I am dicontent with how these morons are allowed to just walk around, but does that mean I become a vigilante and start throwing molotove cocktails at their hangouts? not that i know how to make molotive cocktails. mojito and margarita is a whole diff thing :D so that excuse does not fly either.

** and as far as the few trouble makers go, shouldnt they be just tossed in prison to rot? the types who have indoctrined simpletons to think they are some sort of soldiers of faith when they go after innocent ppl?**

they SHOULD. but they're not....because they know ppl that know ppl that know other ppl that are running the show right now.

[Abdali]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

^

Thanks for posting the videos. From the same source:

From GEO:

Who know that the same country that the forefathers agreed to join would be bombing us 60 years later?

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Talibanic disease is a serious one and a dangerous issue.

So far we have trouble in Wazirastan and Malkand. Luckily Wazirastani Mullahs got the Eid gift delivered via F-16 and now they are quite and happy.

Right now the main issue is limited to Malakand. This is agency is in trouble since 1980s (much longer than Wazirastani issue).

I feel confident that Mullahs there will be defeated in the next year or two.

CC!

You didn't provide a link so I am not sure what other areas you wanted to talk about!

You're not only misinformed but also annoying.

Do you even know what constitutes Malakand? How was the agency "in trouble" since 1980s.

Let us not forget the Americans/Pakistani Govt/ISI who actually nurtured and provided funding for the same "mullahs" when the Russians were in Afghanistan. Or when the Pakistani Govt used the same Mullahs and their followers in Kashmir. Hypocrites?

[Sa1eem]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

^ Who know that the same country that the forefathers agreed to join would be bombing us 60 years later?

Brother, did forefathers agreed to join the country 60 years ago with intention to fight same country, use force on the citizens of same country to change their way of life, or national and international interest of same country, or to become threat to same country?

If these people were peaceful, innocent and unarmed, I believe that no Pakistanis would have ever talked against them. If these people stop force for spreading their misguided religious cult, recognize Pakistan border restraints, live peacefully like any Pakistani citizen and obey the laws of the country like any Pakistani citizen, than no one would even think to fight them.

Unfortunately, these people are armed and are fighting Pakistan and destabilizing Pakistan, so you cannot say that they are innocent or not deserved to get crushed. Even when spreading their misguided cult in the name of Islam over others they use force, and when they use force they should know that it is duty of government (as it is duty of any government) to stop them from using force on others, and to crush them if needed, so that they are stopped from using force on others.

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Brother, did forefathers agreed to join the country 60 years ago with intention to fight same country, use force on the citizens of same country to change their way of life, or national and international interest of same country, or to become threat to same country?

If these people were peaceful, innocent and unarmed, I believe that no Pakistanis would have ever talked against them. If these people stop force for spreading their misguided religious cult, recognize Pakistan border restraints, live peacefully like any Pakistani citizen and obey the laws of the country like any Pakistani citizen, than no one would even think to fight them.

Unfortunately, these people are armed and are fighting Pakistan and destabilizing Pakistan, so you cannot say that they are innocent or not deserved to get crushed. Even when spreading their misguided cult in the name of Islam over others they use force, and when they use force they should know that it is duty of government (as it is duty of any government) to stop them from using force on others, and to crush them if needed, so that they are stopped from using force on others.

You clearly have NOT watched either one of the videos. Do yourself a favor and spend a few minutes seeing and accepting the toll of the bombings on civilians.

All I am going to say is that you folks don't know (or care?) about the civilian losses. Names like Waziristan and Swat are thrown about like they are 100% comprised of militants and the extremists, when the average person may be religious but is worried more about making a living than imposing his views on anyone.

I'm sorry but these videos made me sick to my stomach, as a Muslim, Pakistani Pakhtun.

[antiobl]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

You're not only misinformed but also annoying.

Do you even know what constitutes Malakand? How was the agency "in trouble" since 1980s.

Let us not forget the Americans/Pakistani Govt/ISI who actually nurtured and provided funding for the same "mullahs" when the Russians were in Afghanistan. Or when the Pakistani Govt used the same Mullahs and their followers in Kashmir. Hypocrites?

I realize that logic 101 is so difficult for some "mentally challenged" folks.

Here is a factoid for those who wish to understand.

1. Talibanic menace will eat its own first. That means moderate Pashtoons will bear the brunt if not protected by internal or external entities.

2. ISI "nurtured" Taliban! Well the reality is that Talibans sold their services to the highest bidders. First it was ISI and CIA. Then Arabs gave them 10 times more money and guess what? Taliban not only sold their services, they sold their houses and women too.

3. Sure Kashmir was one place where Jihad was used. However ISI didn't force people to fight in Jihad.

So in summary!

Today you volunteer to do missions for Pakistan, you will be honored.

Tomorrow you try to damage Pakistan, then guess what? you will be hunted down by the law enforcement agencies.

I hope this helps a bit (that is for those who good get at least a C in logic 101).

[Sa1eem]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

You clearly have NOT watched either one of the videos. Do yourself a favor and spend a few minutes seeing and accepting the toll of the bombings on civilians.

All I am going to say is that you folks don't know (or care?) about the civilian losses. Names like Waziristan and Swat are thrown about like they are 100% comprised of militants and the extremists, when the average person may be religious but is worried more about making a living than imposing his views on anyone.

I'm sorry but these videos made me sick to my stomach, as a Muslim, Pakistani Pakhtun.

If you read my earlier posts, you would have read that what I always wrote about Waziristan (that today applies to Swat too) is that government should make announcement that all peaceful citizens of the area come out of the area, than once all would come out (and government make sure of that), government can then go in with heavy bombing of the area followed by solders going there to kill all terrorists that might survive the bombing, than after the area is cleaned of these terrorists, government should rebuilt the area to good standard and resettle all peaceful citizens of the area.

Actually, government can divide the area into segments and do this cleanup operation, segment by segment.

.

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

I realize that logic 101 is so difficult for some "mentally challenged" folks.

Oh please do not flatter yourself. My line of work allows me to make an impact on real world international relation fora, and is not limited to voicing dissent on an electronic forum.

**
1. Talibanic menace will eat its own first. That means moderate Pashtoons will bear the brunt if not protected by internal or external entities.
**

Pakhtuns don't need "protection" from internal or external sources. Pakistani armed forces not harming civilians would be nice start. If the Taliban menace must be wiped out, why is the Pakistan Govt approaching the non-Taliban Pakhtun leadership to act as intermediaries?
**
2. ISI "nurtured" Taliban! Well the reality is that Talibans sold their services to the highest bidders. First it was ISI and CIA. Then Arabs gave them 10 times more money and guess what? Taliban not only sold their services, they sold their houses and women too.
**

There is a reason why I don't respond to your posts. ISI's role in nuturing, funding, and politically supporting the Taliban is so well documented that I don't even need to give evidence of the fact. The Arabs were already supporting the Taliban simultaneously as the Pak-ISI support. S. Arabia, UAE and Pakistan were the only 3 countries that accepted the Taliban government remember?

Also regarding the selling out part, Musharraf/Pakistan's U-turn post 9/11 is also public knowledge and well documented. Talk about distorting history and the facts.

**
3. Sure Kashmir was one place where Jihad was used. However ISI didn't force people to fight in Jihad.

So in summary!

Today you volunteer to do missions for Pakistan, you will be honored.

Tomorrow you try to damage Pakistan, then guess what? you will be hunted down by the law enforcement agencies.
**

So essentially you are a hypocrite of the highest order and the Jihadis are cannon fodder and were manipulated by Pakistan? I agree on both accounts.

**
I hope this helps a bit (that is for those who good get at least a C in logic 101).**

The fact that every single one of your statements were incorrect and gently refuted, says everything about logic and grades.

Let me guess, your going to challenge my loyalty to Pakistan? Call me an Afghan?

Both through ancestry and self identification, I have stood for Pakistan. Even when my esteemed Pakistani colleagues were playing "we're all desi" with the Indians.

[Rebel_X]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

they SHOULD. but they're not....because they know ppl that know ppl that know other ppl that are running the show right now.

hey man in a nation where a two bit terrorst thug like rasheed ghazi is called shaheed in media, I am not surprised that open action is not taken against these psychos.

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

If you read my earlier posts, you would have read that what I always wrote about Waziristan (that today applies to Swat too) is that government should make announcement that all peaceful citizens of the area come out of the area, than once all would come out (and government make sure of that), government can then go in with heavy bombing of the area followed by solders going there to kill all terrorists that might survive the bombing, than after the area is cleaned of these terrorists, government should rebuilt the area to good standard and resettle all peaceful citizens of the area.

Actually, government can divide the area into segments and do this cleanup operation, segment by segment.

*.

You did not say anything about this on this thread. I am sorry but I don't follow all the threads. I would rather call out the most insane arguments from delusional people than pick on reasonable folks.

I think that your proposal is full of good intentions, but unfortunately it is not feasible. As in any conflict, more innocents die because they are in the cross fire.*

[Sa1eem]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

You did not say anything about this on this thread. I am sorry but I don't follow all the threads. I would rather call out the most insane arguments from delusional people than pick on reasonable folks.

I think that your proposal is full of good intentions, but unfortunately it is not feasible. As in any conflict, more innocents die because they are in the cross fire.

Brother it is possible if government really likes to. When there is will there is way. Government need to do cleanup operations on maybe 5 square miles segment a time. Only need would be to send crystal clear message and make peaceful people in the area realize that they would get resettled in better accommodation with better facilities than before. Obviously, government should also make sure that trouble makers do not move out with innocent civilians.

Fortunately, living standard of people in tribal areas and Swat is not that high and it is affordable to give them better accommodations with better facilities after doing cleanup operations. I am sure that this would not only clean the area from people creating trouble, but would make the life of peaceful citizens in the area better.

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

@Sa1eem

Brother it is possible if government really likes to. When there is will there is way. Government need to do cleanup operations on maybe 5 square miles segment a time. Only need would be to send crystal clear message and make peaceful people in the area realize that they would get resettled in better accommodation with better facilities than before. Obviously, government should also make sure that trouble makers do not move out with innocent civilians.

Fortunately, living standard of people in tribal areas and Swat is not that high and it is affordable to give them better accommodations with better facilities after doing cleanup operations. I am sure that this would not only clean the area from people creating trouble, but would make the life of peaceful citizens in the area better.

Your heart is in the right place, but successive Pakistani governments have always opted for short term fixes. If a long term development strategy is followed, then many of these problems would be averted.

I don't want to be all negative here. Circumstances brought me into contact with the individual who worked behind the scenes to redevelop AJK and Hazara after the devastating earthquake. So the capability is certainly there.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Your heart is in the right place, but successive Pakistani governments have always opted for short term fixes. If a long term development strategy is followed, then many of these problems would be averted.

I don't want to be all negative here. Circumstances brought me into contact with the individual who worked behind the scenes to redevelop AJK and Hazara after the devastating earthquake. So the capability is certainly there.

Sure, I also believe that capability is there and as Pakistan is progressing, taxes is increasing too, thus money is also there or would be there as Pakistan would progress (that maybe an excuse of not doing much in past ... lack of money). So, now it is only to do with will.

[pak-one]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Sure, I also believe that capability is there and as Pakistan is progressing, taxes is increasing too, thus money is also there or would be there as Pakistan would progress (that maybe an excuse of not doing much in past ... lack of money). So, now it is only to do with will.

Traditionally, villagers have migrated to settled areas like Mardan, Pekhawar and elsewhere to earn a living.

I would call for the development of all impoverished areas of Pakistan including Baluchistan. Unfortunately the will is limited by political and strategic concerns.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Traditionally, villagers have migrated to settled areas like Mardan, Pekhawar and elsewhere to earn a living.

I would call for the development of all impoverished areas of Pakistan including Baluchistan. Unfortunately the will is limited by political and strategic concerns.

You are right but I believe in past, government did not had enough to develop any area anyhow. Probably you would be surprised that during later years of 1990s, Pakistan cost of servicing past loans was more than total government tax revenue (shows how much government use to borrow, most used to get eaten up by government officials, leaving later generations to pay). Second highest expenditure was defence and than expenses for running the government. That means almost no money left for development. During Zia time, most of revenue used to get spent on defence, still no money for real development.

Today things are much better, as I believe less than 40 percent of revenue goes into servicing past debts and defence (Pakistan new debts during last 8 years is comparatively negligible and defence expenditure had not gone up substantially) and thus over 40 percent of revenue is going on development works or giving relief to people.

**

[Iconoclast]

Re: Northern Areas are breaking away.

Your heart is in the right place, but successive Pakistani governments have always opted for short term fixes. If a long term development strategy is followed, then many of these problems would be averted.

I don't want to be all negative here. Circumstances brought me into contact with the individual who worked behind the scenes to redevelop AJK and Hazara after the devastating earthquake. So the capability is certainly there.

There are many people on this board whos hearts are with Altaf Hussain but they guise themselves in good words.

The Problem of Northern areas will come to haunt Pakistan sooner or later, you whether you develop them or not. Afghans more specifically Pakhtoons have always maintained that they do not beleive in Durand line and they have their areas inducted in Pakistan.