Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

[Bigboi]

yes but how far does the majority of pakistan follow those standarads? What of the women who work? maids for one thing, every household has one or two. Quran also says a thing or two about violence against women.Were the wives of Prophet pbuh ever belted for not getting the cooking right or talking back? can you seriously claim that doesnt happen in our society? I hardly think there isn't any serious effort in our society to get rid of that mentality. What of the rights of women while inheriting? What of them in education(since educating a women is equal to educating one generation, this is the islamic concept)? What about the respect that an average person shows to his mother(bear in mind again the lower to lowest level here) is that following per quran? What of the rights that a wife has? or a daughter? Dont you feel in pakistan what is happening with women has nothing to do with the Quran, there are the rural areas.Many ulemas are of the opinion that women are supressed in the current system,i remember a distinct interview by mufti taqi usmani on the matter when he said that most women are deprived of their legal inheritance in our country.

then please look at Saudi Arabia. The Land where the perfect faith has it's foundation. When you have done, you can come back and point your finger on Pakistan and say that this a country where the man subjugate their women. I have pointed out 2 things women are not allowed to do in Saudi-Arabia.

You know the major problem of every Muslim is that he thinks his Mufti, Mullah is the No.1 source INSTEAD OF OPENING the blessed Book and read what Qur'an has to say. If followed Qur'an perfectly by every individual, what do you think what would happen? Would we face this crap? Our Pakistani Society would shine, but it's not easy to have an clear when people folow 73 ways of Muslim Life. Has God not blessed everyone of us with a gifted mind? Ok, some are limited, but the

Here @GS I noticed that too many people plan their life without God.

A woman is generally seen as a second class product. Since the ancient times. Not even only in the Asian area. It's a cultural thing to treat a woman like dirt. For that the pervert elders are responsible. As long as we don't get rid of the so called culture, we will not be able to follow Qur'an and treat woman the way it has been mentioned.

[Mamaof3]

@redvelvet

Mama of 3 happens to be a moderator and a decent woman. Why are you call her a "chichoran"??????

But you are SOOOOOO ARROGANT that you are judging her character just because her views are not the same as Heera Lal's.

RV, why thank you kindly for your comment and for coming to my defense! :)

You're very right in your statement above....thats why I just ignore it. Some people can be like bees, kwim? Ignore them and they eventually fly away. Swat at them and they sting you, you swat some more and it just degrades to their level.

Best to let them be.

[Straight_up]

Firstly, why can't we discuss women's rights without bringing up the sexual exploitation of women all over the world? In a country where save from certain places, a woman cannot leave her home alone and expect to return without any sort of harassment, we'd be fooling ourselves to say they're not subjugated. wondergurl, if you've never felt subjugated while living in Pakistan then consider yourself extremely blessed. Younger brothers are given more freedom in terms of their education, social lives, and day-to-day decision making than their elder sisters. This is quite common in urban Pakistan. Let's not even go to the rural areas where a woman is considered lucky if she isn't verbally or physically abused on a regular basis. On my last visit to Pakistan, I was completely dependent on the male members of my family to take me sight-seeing, shopping, and any other means of mobility needed - they pretty much decided which places to go and when and how and all that jazz. When women express their own opinions, they're commonly rejected as 'tennu ki pata!" So, this is my very, very general observation of women in Pak. Even if most of your family is awesome and believes in equality between the sexes, you'll always have the societal norms that'd limit you as a woman in Pakistan, no-matter-what. Permanent glass ceiling there.

[hareem01]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

In general, women in Pakistan are subjugated but so is the case in other countries in different scenarios and circumstances.
In Pakistan, I see a lot of women ruling over their husbands and then their sons and daughters in law. I see a woman being in power as a PM for nearly a decade(never happened in USA).
But then there are uncountable incidents of violence against women for various reasons in Pakistan. The solution to end this situation is to get ourselves and others educated about the Islamic rights of women(not an easy task) rather than immitating Western Society blindly. Some Western Laws are quite similar to Islamic Laws and I suppose we should be implementing them in Pakistan.

[blackforest_360]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

culture overrules religion for sum (maybe many ) ppl, so to them it doesn't matter wat the rights of women are they care about wat has bin dun for years nd years nd wat the ppl around them do nd that if they were to give liberal freedom then wat wud others around them say .

p.s bigboi in the Qu'raan it's not stated that a woman cannot work. it states that a woman shud be provided for. there's a bit of a difference:)

[wondergurl]

@Straight_up

Firstly, why can't we discuss women's rights without bringing up the sexual exploitation of women all over the world? In a country where save from certain places, a woman cannot leave her home alone and expect to return without any sort of harassment, we'd be fooling ourselves to say they're not subjugated. wondergurl, if you've never felt subjugated while living in Pakistan then consider yourself extremely blessed. Younger brothers are given more freedom in terms of their education, social lives, and day-to-day decision making than their elder sisters. This is quite common in urban Pakistan. Let's not even go to the rural areas where a woman is considered lucky if she isn't verbally or physically abused on a regular basis. On my last visit to Pakistan, I was completely dependent on the male members of my family to take me sight-seeing, shopping, and any other means of mobility needed - they pretty much decided which places to go and when and how and all that jazz. When women express their own opinions, they're commonly rejected as 'tennu ki pata!" So, this is my very, very general observation of women in Pak. Even if most of your family is awesome and believes in equality between the sexes, you'll always have the societal norms that'd limit you as a woman in Pakistan, no-matter-what. Permanent glass ceiling there.

^ true, all of this does exist, as i said before, women are indeed controlled in the name of culture and religion, that mentality can exist anywhere in the world.

Subjugate is a very strong word, it literally means to enslave and control, there are certainly women who are subjugated in the literal sense of the word back home which includes sexual exploitation so I would not use it casually. As I said I personally I had a say in all the major decisions regarding my life like education, career and marriage, I drove there, worked, didn't really feel harassed going about my usual routine unless i happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. subjugated? no. frusrated? yes. thats because precautions need to be taken for sure in a society like ours where street crime is common, presence of violent ethnic and politically related incidents, threat of suicide bombings and for that reason if my family needs to know at all times where I am, asked to avoid going alone to certain neighborhoods and avoid going out after maghrib then i do not consider that as controlling, i consider it common sense.

no doubt going from the west, life does feel restrictive and frustrating for the above mentioned reasons but from my experience, those are taken for the sake of personal safety. that said, i'm sure there are families who use these factors to control and dominate, its all in the mindset.

[Croquet]

@hareem01

In general, women in Pakistan are subjugated but so is the case in other countries in different scenarios and circumstances. In Pakistan, I see a lot of women ruling over their husbands and then their sons and daughters in law. I see a woman being in power as a PM for nearly a decade(never happened in USA). But then there are uncountable incidents of violence against women for various reasons in Pakistan. The solution to end this situation is to get ourselves and others educated about the Islamic rights of women(not an easy task) rather than immitating Western Society blindly. Some Western Laws are quite similar to Islamic Laws and I suppose we should be implementing them in Pakistan.

spot on girl. The problem is that our society is very hierarchal and class divided, majority doesnt have the luck that B bhutto did. What bothers me is that there is a norm, that i feel is very strong, where woman and her sacrifices and hard work are taken for granted. I mean women lib to me is for a woman to be able to choose what she wants and not be held comtemptible for it. Perhaps i am unlucky with surroundings or exceedingly observant but i have seen countless examples around and even in my family where if a girl is quick witted and capable she is considered 'taiz', if a sister wants her right in inheritance'then she is shameless for she is doing well enough' and a sacrifice is expected of her in every turn, and if she doesnt succumb then she is not a good daughter, nor a good mother nor a good wife.
I see your point where a minority of women have all the luck and joy and they become controlling of their husbands but in that scenarios husbands are not expected to follow their biddings infact these husbands are widely considered as putty in wives hands where as with women it is the expected trend. I mean i have seen where a woman is widowed and people advise her while her husband's dead body is still not buried to loudly announce that 'i forgive him haq mehr'. What the hell? how the is that someone's business? I mean i have seen people commenting on women because when they eat meals they take their fair share rather than a smaller portion.

With the low class ,its a mess and lack of education is the massive problem their.

[hareem01]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

Totally agree with you.
I wanted to have some conditions written in my Nikahnama but molvi Saab didn't even bother to talk about it, he just wanted me to sign the papers.
But the problem is, I wasn't aware of my Islamic rights then and today when I know about them I don't let myself get manipulated by anyone, either by my siblings, my husband (yes, sometimes I win the arguments) or my inlaws.

I know it doesn't work for everyone but I'm quite sure that for most Pakistanis, religion can take over the culture even if its not in their favour.

[Deeba1234]

@Croquet

spot on girl. The problem is that our society is very hierarchal and class divided, majority doesnt have the luck that B bhutto did. What bothers me is that there is a norm, that i feel is very strong, where woman and her sacrifices and hard work are taken for granted. I mean women lib to me is for a woman to be able to choose what she wants and not be held comtemptible for it. Perhaps i am unlucky with surroundings or exceedingly observant but i have seen countless examples around and even in my family where** if a girl is quick witted and capable she is considered 'taiz', if a sister wants her right in inheritance'then she is shameless for she is doing well enough' and a sacrifice is expected of her in every turn,** and if she doesnt succumb then she is not a good daughter, nor a good mother nor a good wife. I see your point where a minority of women have all the luck and joy and they become controlling of their husbands but in that scenarios husbands are not expected to follow their biddings infact these husbands are widely considered as putty in wives hands where as with women it is the expected trend. I mean i have seen where a woman is widowed and people advise her while her husband's dead body is still not buried to loudly announce that 'i forgive him haq mehr'. What the hell? how the is that someone's business? I mean i have seen people commenting on women because when they eat meals they take their fair share rather than a smaller portion.

With the low class ,its a mess and lack of education is the massive problem their.

Bit in bold especially makes my blood boil. Great post.

I went to a house back home once where the women were only allowed to eat after the men had finished, what a way to 'thank' the person who put the food on the table in the first place..

[hareem01]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

They have brought this Jahalat to UK as well, there's a mosque here and they have this weekly gathering where males are served with meals and women with only refreshments.

I didn't go to that gathering nor i let my husband go there....hehehehe

[redvelvet]

@hareem01

They have brought this Jahalat to UK as well, there’s a mosque here and they have this weekly gathering where males are served with meals and women with only refreshments.

I didn’t go to that gathering nor i let my husband go there…hehehehe

Hmmm…I’ve also noticed that during parties…the men are served first. So they all line up and by the counter and fill their plates first…and then the women and children get to go.

When I have my own home…I shall remember the classic “Ladies first” rule and serve the women FIRST

[hareem01]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

^Just tell those Men the story of Umar(ra) the Caliph, when he himself cooked for that poor woman and her children.

[Croquet]

hareem at not letting hubby enjoy the chauvinist meal. A good spouse makes all the difference in the world. If a husband is good he is the best absolute joy you can have in life. I think in pakistan my husband was an excellent gem because inspite of social trends and some outright meddling suggestions he stuck to his guns. However i see this is rare, very very rare.

[Croquet]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

by the way what is the best way of getting mods attention for a poll?

[amana]

But Croquet those days was different most of the ladies were gr8 and these days when girls get freedom they start doing chichorapun ziadatar.

I'm not against in ivolving women in anything but to become baypardah and start doing chichorapun is so wrong.

Yes but we all have to work for that. All men and women. But Media controlled by the kafirs are taking this and trying to do something else which is so wrong.

First we have to understand what to do and where to concentrate.

As kafirs gave freedom to women and made them prostitudtes more than education and gr8 person.

Islam came and gave unprecedented freedom to women to leave their homes, choose their spouses, own property, and participate in society. Did all of this extra freedom encourage them to become wild and unmanageable? Many of the sahabiyat worked, some as battlefield nurses who were constantly in the company of men. According to you their husbands should have been protecting them at home.

No where in Islam does it say that a woman needs to be at home in purdah. Being active in society, working, and so on does not make one cheap or filthy. You really need to read more (and probably get out of the house as well).

[Gujjar_Badshah]

@amana

Islam came and gave unprecedented freedom to women to leave their homes, choose their spouses, own property, and participate in society. Did all of this extra freedom encourage them to become wild and unmanageable? Many of the sahabiyat worked, some as battlefield nurses who were constantly in the company of men. According to you their husbands should have been protecting them at home.

No where in Islam does it say that a woman needs to be at home in purdah. Being active in society, working, and so on does not make one cheap or filthy. You really need to read more (and probably get out of the house as well).

Gender = Male

First of all I would like to say some words about the thread starter's subject.

See you are some how right, In Pakistan what i have seen is men want there wives to be their slaves, which is inhuman, but the reason behind that, who put this in the mind of a man that woman should be your slave. who.. WE did that....

WE means, our society....mostly when a girl grows up she is taught to obey her husband not to say anything dont do this dont do that, as a professional and I have global PR I have alots of people around me they are just living their lives as a compromise, they dont have any kind of internal connections with their spouses, what is that.

Just because when man disrespects a woman, the nation will be out of track.

Simple and straight we respect our woman, she will respect our values and give us a nation who will make mark in this world.

2ndly to Amana:

Amana you are quite right but what she is saying is todays girls are doing like this, go to Lahore and see what is going around, alots of dates would be noticed some of them might be doing some fishy or vulgar acts as well, the high class people think they have money they dont need anything their kids dating out with friends late night and the clothing is see worthy really, If a girl will remove her little clothes from her belly or arm everyone notices that, she might enjoy that things but we boys are thinking something else...

you know better than me, as you are a girl... do you think we will let that girl go easily who is looking like this. Never...

In the same time of you will see a lady with a dupata on her head or scarf everyone will see but they will comment, how nicely clothed and she is a gentle lady. and this an that. right or wrong.

i dont say dont fashion do fashion but there should be some limits. normally girls will wear what they will see in pictures or so called dramas on television.
and try to do the same as in drama regardless that drama is a fcition but the life is reality.

:) i hope its clear to you Amana

[amana]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

A woman's dress is not the determining factor in a man's behavior. I agree that many women no longer have a sense of modesty in either dress or behavior, but too many men behave like shameless animals regardless of how a woman is dressed. I have been pinched and touched in the shops in Pakistan while wearing hijab (not just a dupatta).

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

A lot of the discussions here touch on 2 topics.

1) Why would a woman work?
2) Women not working in Saudi Arabia

The answers to the two are linked. A woman would would out of the economic neccessity to achieve and maintain a desired standard of living, both before and after marriage, or when her life has reached a stage where the household no longer requires her maintenance.

Before marriage: work enables a woman to purchase more things for herself and her family than her father and/or brothers incomes alone could provide.
After marriage: a working wife enables a family to purchase more than the husband's means alone could provide. What if a young couple truly desires a BMW but the husband's income alone could only buy a Honda? What if a young couple desire expensive private education for their children but the husband's income could not afford this?

Secondly, the topic of Saudi Arabia. The country's massive oil wealth translates into a huge social subsidy program for Saudi Nationals that means that one income is all that is needed for a family to live extremely comfortably. Saudis are heavily provided for by their state.

In Bahrain, which is a very conservative but much poor country that cannot afford to provde for its citizens, it is normal for women to go out to work because the income of husbands alone cannot provide well for families.

[Bigboi]

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

A lot of the discussions here touch on 2 topics.

1) Why would a woman work? 2) Women not working in Saudi Arabia

The answers to the two are linked. A woman would would out of the economic neccessity to achieve and maintain a desired standard of living, both before and after marriage, or when her life has reached a stage where the household no longer requires her maintenance.

**Numb:

when our soul requires maintenance our entire life, how can you say that there is a stage where the household no longer requires maintenance?**

Before marriage: work enables a woman to purchase more things for herself and her family than her father and/or brothers incomes alone could provide. After marriage: a working wife enables a family to purchase more than the husband's means alone could provide. What if a young couple truly desires a BMW but the husband's income alone could only buy a Honda? What if a young couple desire expensive private education for their children but the husband's income could not afford this?

**Numb:

This is the Problem. Why not only live with what Allah has blessed every human being? If this young couple truly desires a BMW, then to me they belong to this rich class section. No, we do not like this car, but if I go to work, we can afford it. Ever seen a african child truly having a desire for one drop of water? I have, then you forget all the honda's, BMW's, Mercedes and what not. Private Education? I rather educate my children than sending them to some private school. What is a private school? They have access to personal teachers, have their own personal computer, personal box for their important stuff, personal cook. If they do not learn, the teacher will learn until you have done and your parents pay 'n' pay...Why not make this available for everyone? Does not everyone have a right for maximum education?**

Secondly, the topic of Saudi Arabia. The country's massive oil wealth translates into a huge social subsidy program for Saudi Nationals that means that one income is all that is needed for a family to live extremely comfortably. Saudis are heavily provided for by their state.

In Bahrain, which is a very conservative but much poor country that cannot afford to provde for its citizens, it is normal for women to go out to work because the income of husbands alone cannot provide well for families.

**Numb:

No wonder the Husband's income is low when the Manager earns 3/4 of his workers effort. Another strategy to force the woman out of her house and uncover her.**

thumbs up for the end of same sex marriage ewwwww

[hareem01]

Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?

bigboi

not everyone is able to teach their kids at home and even those parents who are, they still need to send them out at one stage and that requires money.