Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?
Since majority of Pakistan's population lives in rural areas, its safe to assume that it is 'generally' a male dominated society, based strictly on a socioeconomic status scale where cultural norms and social restrictions based on religion, play a much bigger role in the rural setting than it does in the urban one.
Having grown up in Pakistan myself, in an urban setting, I never felt I was being subjugated in any way, by the male members of my family. I can safely say the same for other female family members, cousins, friends etc. When it came all the major decision making, like our education and career choice we were given total freedom to choose, when we got married (a process we were actively a part of and where we had the last word), our husbands certainly did not make dominant decisions regarding our careers, where to live, when or where to go out etc etc In my family, I see marriages as true partnerships, starting from my own parents, where decisions and choices are made mutually and opinions valued and respected.
That said, yes I have come across women who are dominated in the name of culture and religion (both in and out of Pakistan) but locally I am glad to say that social awareness of these issues is definitely on the rise, media has played a huge role in the recent yrs, in highlighting these abuses and talking about it openly, making it no longer a taboo topic. only when voices are raised they are heard and acknowledged, for a society that has been kept subjugated and oppressed as a whole, for decades, it will take time to get the word out and right the wrongs.
Totaly Agree. Why would woman go to work if she gets enough.
Maybe she gets bored at home or feels she would like to do something 'constructive' with her time (not that I'm saying being a housewife is not constructive lol just that she wants to contribute to society as a teacher, doctor etc.).
^ 50% of population is illeterate(men and women both) .that makes it 1 in every 2 people. Would you say that is a very few? And by the way the census is conducted is by the means of of checking if a person can write their name. Any idea how many schools are in rural ares of pakistan? any idea of the population that lives in those rural areas? this isnt few.
But not due to husband don't let them have education that is due to some other things.
Maybe she gets bored at home or feels she would like to do something 'constructive' with her time (not that I'm saying being a housewife is not constructive lol just that she wants to contribute to society as a teacher, doctor etc.).
I knew this would come. Yes I can understand that. As some might not have kid or in the begining of married life she stays alone.
But again she can do many things at home to do something constructive.
What constructive things she can do when she has kid and leave kid to someone else to paal them and go for a work.
The funny thing is she is doing good I would say gr8 by teaching or doctoring in the society but in her own house left her own kid to someone elses rehm or karam and teaching. I don't think apni aulaad ko chor kay aap dunia ki teaching karain.
Agar har maan apnay aulaad ki khud teaching karay (jo us say bahtar koi naheen kar sakta) to phir bahar jaa kar teaching ki kia zaroorat. Kia pehlay kay daur main doctor. engineer naheen thay jubkay ladies itni naheen huwa karteen theen kisi field main. Kia genius naheen hotay thay? Sub dunia ka kaam chalta tha na mardon say. Ub kioon naheen. Wajah sirf yay hai kay aurton ko aram say ghar main baitha naheen jaata.
Ghar main doosron kay buchchon ko bula kar bhi taleem di jaa sakti hai deeni ya schooli. Doctory ghar main ghar kay logon main bhi kar sakti hai.
Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?
Why would a ghairat mund mard let his wife sit between 50 or some men and work.
All (I mean except rare men who are so naik) know how men look at ladies and how they think and what comes in their mind when they see. Every men knows.
M aren't you talking about some. The scenery you are making by siting here is so wrong. Few and some cases are like that.
Everything even in this free country (Everything free; free of dress, free of love, free of education and talents and many more) happens too but bad things are more here than in Pakistan.
In our religion Ladies have to listen to her husband and He is the Sirbarah of the family and he does everything.
Wouldn't you like if you provide everything to someone that they have to follow you?
The Prophet SAWS told his followers that "the best man is the one who is kindest to his wife."
Agar husband provide karta hai.......that's good. Lekin zaroori nahin hai k us ki har baat maani jaaye. Aurat insan hai, aur us ki bhi feelings hoti hain. Woh koi robot nahin jo k har order follow karay. Insan robot ki tarha nahin bana.
Aur agar husband ki demands unreasonable hain.....ya woh us ko maarta peet tha hai.......to biwi us ki baat kyoon maanay?
Har situation ki exceptions hoti hain.
Aur jis tarha aaj ki economy chal rahi hai........in some families BOTH husband and WIFE are working. DONO family k liye provide kar rahain hain.
Marriage aik PARTNERSHIP hai. Aik HUKUMRAAN government nahin. Insaan (chahay woh shauhar ho ya biwi) kay alag alag moods hotay hain........aur is wajah se banda har ORDER to follow nahin kar sakta.
Things are not black and white in a marriage. Our religion emphasizez moderation.
But not due to husband don't let them have education that is due to some other things.
sighz have you ever heard of brothers interferring with the education of sisters? ever heard or seen fathers making these decisions? even some mothers are of the opinion but it is called male dominance for two reasons. One is this that if the man of the household is opinion to educate daughter most likely that his daughter would be educated even if the mother doesnot agree, however if the mother is of the same opinion but father or brothers arent more likely that she wont. Where is the voice of the girl in the entire process if anyone's guess, besides at the youngest age these decisions are taken up by parents. Secondly the issue is representation of females in govt level is two fold, what percentage and how fair do they represent the issues.
Why would a ghairat mund mard let his wife sit between 50 or some men and work.
All (I mean except rare men who are so naik) know how men look at ladies and how they think and what comes in their mind when they see. Every men knows.
fine then a segregated society needs segregated environments. Where are those? Prophet pbuh involved women with him and stressed on educating them that shouldnt equate with the death of chastity. Our society fails to provide enough venues for women to respectably pursue many interests.
Exactly.
But Mama of 3 **chichoran **girls don't listen to her husband love to live among and seen by the men. That is why. They want to go to work.
Big Boi you are telling this to Mama of 3 who is a gori not a muslim. Yes she did marry a Muslim as she says but I think he didn't tell her what's in his religion. Again Goray themselves don't follow their bible at all so how can they listen about quran says?
Mama of 3 happens to be a moderator and a decent woman. Why are you call her a "chichoran"??????
YOU do NOT live with her. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT HER MARRIAGE IS LIKE!
But you are SOOOOOO ARROGANT that you are judging her character just because her views are not the same as Heera Lal's.
Leave the Judgment to Allah. Kya Pata Allah ki Nazar main yeh aurat TUM SE ZIYADA MUSALMAN HO????!!!!!
Kya pata Allah ki Nazar main is aurat ka dil tumharay dil se ziyada saaf ho???!!!
You are accusing Mama of 3 of being a cheap woman and less religious just because she wasn't born a desi Muslim??????????????? You are so narrow-minded. The Prophet SAWS said in his LAST KHUTBAH...........that it doesn't matter what race you are........it doesn't matter if you're black or white.........it doesn't matter what country you were born in..............all that matters are your level of faith, your good deeds, and what is in your heart.
Pathetic!!!!!!! Learn some manners. Manners are one of the basics of Islam and you don't even have that. Why don't you fear Allah before you arrogantly decide for yourself who is a good Muslim and who isn't.
Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?
i hope this thread doesnt go off rails. guys truly i'd like to see some purposeful discussion here.
Since majority of Pakistan's population lives in rural areas, its safe to assume that it is 'generally' a male dominated society, based strictly on a socioeconomic status scale where cultural norms and social restrictions based on religion, play a much bigger role in the rural setting than it does in the urban one.
Having grown up in Pakistan myself, in an urban setting, I never felt I was being subjugated in any way, by the male members of my family. I can safely say the same for other female family members, cousins, friends etc. When it came all the major decision making, like our education and career choice we were given total freedom to choose, when we got married (a process we were actively a part of and where we had the last word), our husbands certainly did not make dominant decisions regarding our careers, where to live, when or where to go out etc etc In my family, I see marriages as true partnerships, starting from my own parents, where decisions and choices are made mutually and opinions valued and respected.
That said, yes I have come across women who are dominated in the name of culture and religion but I am glad to say that social awareness of these issues is definitely on the rise, media has played a huge role in the recent yrs, in highlighting these abuses and talking about it openly, making it no longer a taboo topic. only when voices are raised they are heard and acknowledged, for a society that has been kept subjugated and oppressed as a whole, for decades, it will take time to get the word out and right the wrongs.
Interesting post. With the social awareness through media , i msut say i am a sceptic. There are certain things that work splendidly for media and propoganda purposes but cover the ineffectiveness of issues other wise. I mean in musharraf times slogans were big and bold, he only followed it by softening censor policy on media representation but in gorund reality i think he made the matters worse. He privatised the colleges so where parents had to pay 20000 Rs they were asked 40000 for graduation of girls. this action would definitely setback women education by miles.
Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?
^ true but i think its at least a step in the right direction, as i said for a society that has been oppressed socially and politically for decades, with this new platform it won't be as easy to get away with it. An example is that of Mukhtaran Mai, it certainly was not a lone incident of its kind in Pakistan but the difference was that in the past it would have been very easy to keep it hushed and brushed under the carpet. Its impact, highlighted by the media, heated up the whole 'Hadood Ordinance' debate and brought about the existance of the 'Women's Protection Bill'.
Media definitely has its own agendas too, political affiliations and can be used as propaganda machines but as far as highlighting and targeting social evils are concerned there is no better outlet.
i hope this thread doesnt go off rails. guys truly i'd like to see some purposeful discussion here.
Croquet, my intention was not to "derail" you threads. I understand that you were trying to have an "open-minded" discussion regarding the topic with Gr8heera.
But an open-minded discussion does not involve calling a woman "chichoran" because she might have opposing views...........and it also does not entail implying that a woman is irreligious simply because she was not born a desi Muslim.
I'm all for patience and tolerance. But there are exceptions. If one lets these transgressions go (after witnessing them) and doesn't stand up for what is right......they can potentially snowball into a persistent and more severe pattern of dysfunctional behavior.
sighz have you ever heard of brothers interferring with the education of sisters? ever heard or seen fathers making these decisions? even some mothers are of the opinion but it is called male dominance for two reasons. One is this that if the man of the household is opinion to educate daughter most likely that his daughter would be educated even if the mother doesnot agree, however if the mother is of the same opinion but father or brothers arent more likely that she wont. Where is the voice of the girl in the entire process if anyone's guess, besides at the youngest age these decisions are taken up by parents. Secondly the issue is representation of females in govt level is two fold, what percentage and how fair do they represent the issues.
Yes I did and that is so wrong but it's not all over the Pakistan. AGain not due to husband.
PPl uchaal it more because it's a muslim country.
Also as a poor country and many things involve. Yes some men try to do what is against Islam and women right we can't deny the truth.
But for this We have to help those.
fine then a segregated society needs segregated environments. Where are those? Prophet pbuh involved women with him and stressed on educating them that shouldnt equate with the death of chastity. Our society fails to provide enough venues for women to respectably pursue many interests.
But Croquet those days was different most of the ladies were gr8 and these days when girls get freedom they start doing chichorapun ziadatar.
I'm not against in ivolving women in anything but to become baypardah and start doing chichorapun is so wrong.
Yes but we all have to work for that. All men and women. But Media controlled by the kafirs are taking this and trying to do something else which is so wrong.
First we have to understand what to do and where to concentrate.
As kafirs gave freedom to women and made them prostitudtes more than education and gr8 person.
i hope this thread doesnt go off rails. guys truly i'd like to see some purposeful discussion here.
Awww that's what I want and come to but....
Lets ignore and discuss the matter.
Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?
Croquet first we have to set values and importance of women and religion.
First give them religious info and then set the goal what women has to do after getting education and freedom that way media won't take ladies to become prostitutes but the gr8 persons, gr8 moms, gr8 teachers, gr8 doctors, gr8 engineers and what not.
Re: Are women subjugated in Pakistani society?
Croquet, my intention was not to "derail" you threads. I understand that you were trying to have an "open-minded" discussion regarding the topic with Gr8heera.
But an open-minded discussion does not involve calling a woman "chichoran" because she might have opposing views...........and it also does not entail implying that a woman is irreligious simply because she was not born a desi Muslim.
I'm all for patience and tolerance. But there are exceptions. If one lets these transgressions go (after witnessing them) and doesn't stand up for what is right......they can potentially snowball into a persistent and more severe pattern of dysfunctional behavior.
my comment wasnt directed at you velvet, just a general observation. I must've misunderstood because i didnt think heera was calling her chichoori, if he was i think it should be brought into mods notice.
Croquet first we have to set values and importance of women and religion.
First give them religious info and then set the goal what women has to do after getting education and freedom that way media won't take ladies to become prostitutes but the gr8 persons, gr8 moms, gr8 teachers, gr8 doctors, gr8 engineers and what not.
great so you see what i am trying to get at. This isnt a media spin on the matter, thats why i started this thread on pakistani forum, we can and should discuss these issues with fairness, lets forget what others say on the matter and lets start thinking what we want and what we donot want. As for women empowerment leading to unislamic activities. How about we give women what they deserve as per islam, if some women run with it then they are responsible for their actions (and by all means involve govt in forming solid censorship and educating people on religious perspective) but saying that women empowerment might lead to sexual environment so lets carry on as it is is also fruitless. This means two injustices,one is that they are deprived of their just right and second is that this might in turn lead many astray. I donot agree that its molehill that turns into a mountain. I think the issue is quite big and already a mountain in our society.