Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

:) I am only having difficulty in getting my view through your head, nothing else.

ok, for the time being, let us accept the meaning of zakat you are providing in this case. You said, he taught in synagogues and healed diseased people. but even this he is not doing any more. your early point regarding sadqa-e-jariya if accepted can get continuous rewards for Isa(as) but we are talking about his way, his actions that were decreed for his lifetime. what happened to them?

Let us just step out of debate around zakat for a sec, how about his duty towards his mother? He was separated from his mother in her lifetime. So on one hand Allah is instructing Jesus(as) to be good to his mother all his life and the Allah took him to heavens and took away the opportunity to serve his mother that He Himself decreed.
So the well-networked wall has big gaping holes in it

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Peace kchughtai

There are no holes ... Just think about it ... If Isa (AS) was intending to be good to his mother (peace be on them both) but he was unable to physically do it ... then that is his (AS) accountability complete ... In Islam the intent to be good, give charity and so on ... is one reward ... There is no accountability on a person who for physical reasons cannot do something. Isa (AS) was taken to heaven ... It was not his (AS) choice ... Again this is minutia ... But I'm happy speaking about this to you.

I find it disturbing that you can say that about Allah (SWT) ... You should know the difference between propensity and eventuality ... Allah (SWT) has made it an obligation on all humankind to be worshipping Him, but if a person were to die before being given guidance do you think that is a hole? No it is merely a situation that demands that we give consideration to it accordingly to what manifested.

Not everything is in our control ... If Allah (SWT) made us to be a certain way to an individual if that individual stops being in our presence then it obviously follows that we cannot be that way towards someone who is not present ... We cannot be accountable for that ... And the reason why Isa (AS) was in taken is to fulfil his destiny. His (AS) inclination and behaviour towards his mother was overruled by the need of his protection.

Isa (AS) can also send blessings on his mother Maryam (AS) without having to be on Earth ... And in my books if you send blessings to your parents then you are being kind to them ...

Is there any other contention you have or do you still require clarification on this point?

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Peace teggy,

Just wanted to say that this past Friday, the Khatib was explaining about the hadith quoted at post #1. For a moment I thought he read your post and explaining it further. :)

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Brother, this topic very much concerns us all in today's times. Remember to keep all your brothers and sisters in your duaa. inshaAllah

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

:insh:

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

Peace Popat – Yeah it’s a bit off topic but also very erroneous so I won’t ignore it and let it be.

There you go again misinterpreting the above ayah that you have quoted:

It clearly says that those who OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER shall be AMONG -------

It does not say that those who obey Allah and His Messenger shall become Messengers – Certainly not!!!

The ayah clearly says what it means – You sir, are twisting it to get at your desired nefarious agenda.

The ayah says that those who obey Allah and His Messenger shall be in company of those whom Allah Almighty has blessed – And who are these blessed ones?

  • the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous.

And excellent companions are these.

Read the explanation of above in **Tafsir Ibn Kathir **

(And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His grace, of the Prophets, the Siddiqin, the martyrs, and the righteous. And how excellent these companions are!) Consequently, whosoever implements what Allah and His Messenger have commanded him and avoids what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, then Allah will grant him a dwelling in the Residence of Honor. There, Allah will place him in the company of the Prophets, and those who are lesser in grade, the true believers, then the martyrs and then the righteous, who are righteous inwardly and outwardly. Allah then praised this company,

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Whoever Obeys Allah and His Messenger Will Be Honored by Allah

Prophet-hood is an honor from Allah Almighty, which He bestows upon whomsoever He pleases in accordance with His Absolute Wisdom and Eternal Knowledge

Prophet-hood is a blessing from Allah Almighty which Allah bestows upon whosoever is suitable for it and it is not something that can be achieved by the any human by his own means.

“Allah chooses Messengers from angels and from men.” ** Quran 22: 75**

And when a token cometh unto them, they say: We will not believe till we are given that which Allah’s messengers are given. Allah knoweth best with whom to place His message. Humiliation from Allah and heavy punishment will smite the guilty for their scheming.** Quran 6:124**

Prophet-hood is not something which can be acquired by anyone through struggle and exertions, performing different kinds of worships, engaging in tough exercises, persistently disciplining the soul or purification of the heart.

Anyone who lays claim to this can only be an impostor/ quack/ Charlatan/fraud or suffering from delusional disorder.

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

What is the need for the new prophet when Allah Almighty had perfected the religion and completed His blessings upon the followers.

Allah Almighty says; ”This day I have perfected for you your religion, and have completed my blessings upon you, and I am pleased in (having chosen) Al-Islam for you as your (complete) religion”.** (05:03) **

Allah Almighty says; ”And whoever wants other than Al-Islam as religion, it will never be accepted of him, and he will be in the Hereafter of the losers. (03:85)

Islam is perfected by Allah Almighty so there will be no need for any other amendments in it (Islam).

So there is NO need for Wahi from Allah Almighty – Whosoever claims to receive wahi is a Liar and charlatan.

There are authentic ahadith promising the Muslim Ummah that there will be mujaddid reviver who will try to bring Muslims to follow Islam in its pristine form.

“Surely, Allah will send for this Ummah at the beginning of every hundred years a person who will revive its religion for it.” (Abu Dawud)

Narrated from Abu Huraira (R), from the Messenger of Allah (saw), who said: “Surely, Allah will send for this Ummah at the advent of every one hundred years a person (or persons) who will renovate its religion for it.”** [Sunan Abu Dawood]**

The signs of a mujaddid are that through his speeches and writings and through his endeavours and efforts innovations (bid’ahs) are abolished, the Sunnah is spread [far and wide] and those sunnahs which were [considered] dead are revived.

Very important to read the following I got from the Net.

*“In order to avoid some dangerous misconceptions, the following points must always be kept in mind in relation to the term Mujaddid:

  1. Mujaddid is not a formal designation like prophet or messenger. There is no particular authority in this world who declares him as a mujaddid. It is only through his work that he is recognized as such. This recognition also is not as certain as the recognition of a prophet. Therefore, the opinions may differ about his being a mujaddid.

  2. A true mujaddid does not claim to be a mujaddid with certainty, nor does he invite others to believe in him as such.

  3. Even if the majority of the Muslims is of the opinion that a particular person is a mujaddid, there is no religious obligation on the others to believe in him as a mujaddid. In other words, the recognition of a mujaddid is not a part of the necessary religious beliefs.

  4. A mujaddid does not receive any authentic revelation from Allah like a prophet, nor does he make any such claim. He does not bring any new teachings regarding the religion. Rather, he tries to revive the original teachings of the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah.

  5. It is not necessary that a mujaddid knows himself to be a mujaddid, let alone laying any claim to this effect.

  6. A mujaddid is not infallible in his sayings and actions, [unlike] a prophet. His sayings and acts normally conform to the Islamic teachings, but they are not treated like the sayings and acts of a prophet.”*

Allah Almighty will never let false prophets and their followers succeed.

You claim that Jamaat e ahmadiyya enjoys continuous progress is false and mistaken; facts in reality prove it otherwise.

After more than 100 years where is Jamaat e ahmadiyya? Their leadership have ‘being kicked out’ from their home ground and sought refuge in the faraway lands.

You call this victory and help from Allah Almighty?

And in their adopted country their role is virtually insignificant in all the spheres of life. Their existence there is just like that of a cult.

Even the authorities in that country, don’t not grant them any status as a noteworthy Muslim group.

Continuous progress???

Read the follow extract from my post in another thread.

Read the whole post in the following link:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/588552-what-if-5.html#post9407867

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Allah Almighty has testified in the Blessed Quran that the Blessed Prophet (saw) was sent as Mercy to all the Worlds (rahmatan lil-`alamin)

And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds. [21:107]

Allah Almighty has also testified in the Blessed Quran that the Blessed Prophet (saw)was compassionate and merciful towards the Believers – his Ummah.

“Surely, a Messenger has come unto you from among yourselves; grievous to him is it that you should fall into trouble; he is ardently desirous of your welfare; and to the believers he is specially compassionate and merciful.” (9:128)

Keeping the above in mind the Blessed Prophet (saw) was ever so mindful to warning us of trials and tribulations that lay ahead.

One of such is that we do fall into trap that previous nations (Jews and Christians) had fallen into.

“Islam is an all-embracing way of life. It extends over the entire spectrum of life, showing us how to conduct all human activities in a sound and wholesome manner. It does not allow a hierarchy of priests or intermediaries between Allah Almighty and human beings, no farfetched abstractions and no complicated rites and rituals.

Being subjected to foreign rule by European powers for last 200 years – and still ruled in the same manner through stooges and Western cronies - Muslims have on the whole become much stagnated society. We see that generally Muslims are sticking to just few rituals of worship – praying and fasting - and abandoning other aspects of life - political, social, economic, ethical, national and international.

Politically All Muslim countries have discarded ruling by Shairyah as prescribed by Allah Almighty and have religiously followed West’s way of governance. It is only those who are powerful, very rich and ruthless get into the corridors of powers – Their only purpose of getting into power is for betterment of themselves and family and abandoning the public to bread crumbs and their own devices to survive.

These rulers some of whom have blackened their foreheads prostrating in front of their Western masters and worn out their tongues by licking their shoes will do everything at their master’s bidding.

Economically Muslims have completely abandoned Islamic economical system and embraced Judeo-Christian one. Allah has declared usury haram and that He and His Messenger have declared war against those who practice usury. Yet we see that all the Muslims countries have banks, stock exchanges, and usury is so much entrenched In all spheres of economy that there seems that there no other way to run the economy of any country.

Judicial System in all Muslims countries in based of Judeo-Christian values.

Culturally too we follow the Judeo-Christian and others blindly. Majority of Muslims’ lifestyle is not Islamic. Fashion wise western styles are the norm. Hollywood Bollywood actors/actresses are role models. Muslims generally will know more about these worldly heroes – but very few could confidently name 25 Prophets (Peace be upon them all) mentioned in the Blessed Quran or name the ashara al mubasharah (Ten Blessed Companions (May Allah Almighty be pleased with them all) of the Prophet (saw) promised Paradise).

It is now very fashionable among the ‘Muslim Elite’ to follow Judeo-Christian rituals and that of others with zeal – like celebrating birthdays, Valentine’s Day, Mother’s day, Father’s (shouldn’t everyday be Mother’s and Father’s day????), New Year’s celebrations etc. etc.

Nationally and internationally Muslim Ummah is divided into nationalism, tribalism, ethnicity, sectarianism, regionalism etc. etc. each faction with struggles with others to dominate. This is completely contradictory to the commands of Allah Almighty and His Blessed Prophet (saw).

In the Blessed Quran Allah Almighty has warned us about disunity and that He will account us for it.

"This ummah of yours is a single ummah, and I am your Lord, so worship me. But they were cut off from one another in the matter of their unity, and yet they will all return to Us."** [Sûrah al-Anbiyâ': 92-93]**

Similarly the Blessed Prophet (saw) in his farewell sermon had warned us about factionalism and disunity.

*All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black, nor a black has any superiority over a white- except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim, which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people."* The Last Sermon of the Prophet.**

Following hadith (which is the subject of this thread) is one such warning – That Muslims should be aware not to follow the mistakes of previous nations.

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You would tread the same path as was trodden by those before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this also. We said: Allah's Messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians (by your words) "those before you"? He said: Who else (than those two religious groups)? Sahih Muslim Book 034, Hadith Number 6448.

But Muslims should not despair from defeatism and challenging times. The Blessed Prophet has promised the that a person from his progeny, Imam Mahdi Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (ra), will lead Muslim Ummah with aid of Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) back to days of Glory and righteousness.

Muslims in principle should strive hard for betterment themselves and Ummah on the whole and should not be doing nothing worthwhile sitting comfortably on their backsides waiting for the Imam Mahdi (ra) to lead them on. Imam Mahdi (ra) will come only when Allah Almighty wills it.

Those who claim that Mahdi/Messiah/Krishna/Buddha(four personalities amalgamated into one) had come and gone nearly a century ago have nothing to show for success but Diaspora and taking refuge in foreign lands.

Interestingly the Blessed Prophet (saw) had also warned his followers in the farewell sermon that: no prophet or apostle will come after him and no new faith will be born And that to be successful we have to follow the Quran and Sunnah of the Blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him)

  • Remember one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people."* The Last Sermon of the Prophet.
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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

May Allah soften your heart and enable you to understand Quran.Ameen.

Quran is a beautiful word of Allah. It leaves no room for any one to misinterpret the verse to suit anyones need. You cannot deny the verses I’m going to present here.

The arabic word here is ‘ma’ah’ Yes it clearly states they will be AMONG those and not say SHALL BECOME. Here’s the ayaah again.

Now let us see another verse of Quran where the same term is used (ma’ah ssajideen )

[15:30-31] So the angels submitted, all of them together, Except Iblis; he refused to be among those who submit.

Allah further elaborated being among someone by using different term (minnas sajideen) in the following verse:

(7-11) And We did create you and then We gave you shape; then said We to the angels, ‘Submit to Adam;’ and they all submitted but Iblis did not; he would not be of those who submit.

Now where are you going to run ?
Bein among MEANS be ONE of those. If this is not correct, then the above 2 verses needs clarification from your side. If being among those means be with them and not ONE of them, then explain to me what Iblis was doing with all the angels? was he not AMONG the angels ???

This is your condition. You know nothing about Quran, and you come write paragraphs after paragraphs proving whats absurd. Whosoever obeys Allah and his messenger will be AMONG all 4 statuses mentioned in the verse. In Muslim Ummah, we have saleh, sadeeq and shaheed. They are NOT among those people but they areee given that status. Prophethood is also a blessing.

Quran has itself elaborated what AMONG means. Iblis was AMONG the angels, therefore was an angel, and when he refused to submit, he was not AMONG those who submitted.

lol.
Yep, Allah knows full well where he should place his prophethood. We are no one to say why Him, why now, why at that place etc.
Prophethood is acquired by struggle. What are you talking about ?? Allah has full knowledge about who becomes prophet, but prophets also go through a lot of struggle and exertion. They themselves dont know they’re prophets until and unless Allah almighty tells them!

Seriously, you need to let go the hatred you have for jamaat e ahmadiyya and first start off by learning basics of Islam.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

and to your other post.. I dont feel like wasting my valuable time on such childish post. This should suffice for now as an answer.
You said what is there a need of a new prophet when religion is perfected? Why dont you first tell me whats the need of an OLD prophet when religion is complete ?

For Goodness sake! , Jesus A.S cannot be grouped in Islamic shariyah. Islamic shariyah became after the nazul of Quran !! Just like how Abraham CANNOT be jew or christian because gospel and torah were after Him. Stop beating around the bushes and come straight to the point.

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

Inna lillahe wainna ilaehe rajeoon.

Either you completely shut off your brain when you write , or you deliberately say things which goes against Islam ( Allah knows best ). Getting kicked out from your own land is considered a defeat ? You must be kidding me! This is one of the biggest sign of truthfulness. Go back in history. Muhammad PBUH migrated from Makkah. His own people disowned Him. Where did he had to go ? Madinah, which was at that time a city ruled by Christian ruler. Go further back in history. Hazrat Musa A.S had to migrate as well. This is the sign of Allah. This is the way Allah spreads the teachings of his true prophets.

People at that time said we will not let this voice go out even from Qadian. Government of Pakistan tried to put false case of murder on the khalifa of Promised Messiah so he could never go away from Pakistan. What happened? who helped? It’s Allah’s help. Spiritually blind people like you do not see this. Where is jamaat e ahmadiyya now after you ‘kicked the leadership’ out ? Now, your own ullama keep saying that it was a wrong move to declare ahmadis non-muslims. To them, Islam is only limited in Pakistan. The ilhaam of Promised Messiah has greatly come to its fulfillment by people like you who say we are victorious after kicking them out. Ilhaam is : I shall cause thy message to reach the corners of the Earth.

Today, Jamaat is spread in the corners of the Earth, making progress day in day out. Millions of africans have accepted the true Islam. Allah is giving guidance to many many German and other European origin people.

You kicked out the leadership of jamaat, today the same leadership’s voice can be heard in your very own tv. MTA channel 24 hours can be watched from anywhere in the world.

You kicked out jamaat thinking you won? The same jamaat goes to pope francis and delivers Quran and sends him message of peace and books on Islam.

The same jamaat have translated Quran in more than 52 languages and spread it everywhere.
Banned our books in Pakistan ? Double the amount of books are being published now everywhere else. For Jamaat, the entire Earth is for us to spread the true teachings of Islam.

You stay happy by thinking you won by kicking the leadership out.. but fact is, this is what the opponents of prophets have always done. But you will not see this coming.

Be alert. By Allah, I say this, that the true teachings of Islam cannot be stopped by anyone. This is Allah’s jamaat and it will come to majority. Your generations will see this. May Allah enable you to accept true teachings of Islam, because if you dont, your generations will. The day is very near. Repent before its too late.

Mind you, Islam is complete, and yet you say a mujaddid comes to revive the true teachings of Islam. Then you also wait for Jesus a.s to come who will be a prophet. You need to recheck your beliefs.

Islam of Jamaat e Ahmadiyya is the same as that of Muhammad PBUH. There is not a single things that Hz Ahmad(as) added or subtracted from the religion of Islam. He (as) showed us the true face of Islam. Dont believe me? Go start youtubing and see what your own scholars say about how wonderfully blessed Hz Ahmad(as) was who shuts off mouths of Christian missionaries.

Enough said.
Peace.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

May Allah (swt) guide us all to the Sirat-e-Mustaqeem.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

yes i think so

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

Just one thing Mr popat.
Can you explain this further? i till today used to believe that attacks on ur beloved Prophet :saw2: started when Mirza sahib started abusing believes of Christians and hindus. i once shared those gems here only to get warning points for sharing highly distastefull material, mind i share this again.:slight_smile:

To me, and i have said this more then dozen times here that just rechek the authenticity of the person making the claim then you are justified in making other claims about your socalled success.

May ALLAH unite us all on haq.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

You are just following the sunnah of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani – When cornered – start the personal abuse.

What I write (and always back it up with relevant and indisputable evidence) goes against Ahmadiyyat not doubt – I am here to defend Islam!

Please don’t compare the Migration of the Blessed Prophet (saw) to that Diaspora of Ahmadis/Qadianis

The migration the Blessed Prophet (saw) was by the command of Allah Almighty.

If you had read history at all you ought to know that some influential people of Madinah had invited the Blessed Prophet (saw) to Madinah and had pledged to support and protect him in his Divine Mission.

Within one year the Blessed Prophet (saw) was the effective ruler of Madinah.

Around tenth year he had conquered Makkah – his of Birth – and was effective ruler of whole of Hijaz and surrounding areas.

Prophet Moses (as) had migrated by the command of Allah Almighty to the Promised Land and had established himself over there.

The Jews later distorted and twisted the commands of Allah Almighty thus earning Allah Almighty’s wrath. As punishment they lost the status as favoured nation and Allah Almighty dispersed them to other lands as refugees.

In recent history the Jews have been very successful in world affairs and play a dominant part – So is Allah Almighty aiding them in their success?

Diaspora of Ahmadis/Qadianis is similar to that of the Jews.

Just like Jews the Ahmadis/Qadianis are in Diaspora.

**Diaspora* (from Greek διασπορά, "scattering, dispersion") is "the movement, migration, or scattering of people away from an established homeland"*

Your so-called Khalifa is insignificant person in the British Polity. Most of the members of your community are on the dole – receiving state handouts – and well known for moonlighting as cab drivers – with such state of affairs after more than 100 years – you call that success? Is this what you call Allah Almighty’s help.

You have nothing to show for Allah Almighty’s Grace and Favours on your jammat. But you and likes of you are brainwashed to believe so. This is very common predicament in Cults – Ahmadiyyat being one.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Granted. Your jamaat on lines of Christian missionaries opens schools and hospitals in poor African countries and preaches Ahmadiyyat. Of course you are going to score some success.

With a few German, Bosnian and Albanian faces you think you have scored success? Did you bother to calculate the percent these are in comparison to the Mainstream Muslim?

Please don’t try it as you will find it too embarrassing.

Mr. Popat – you forgot address the following:

In 2003 your leader Mirza Tahir boastfully claimed over 200 Millions Ahmadis

In 2008 his successor Mirza Masroor Ahmad claimed Ahmadi population of 70 Million!!!!!

What happened to 130 Million? Disappeared into thin air?

When your leaders shamefully lie to the World and you call that Allah’s help is everywhere!!!!!!!

You should cover your face in shame at the antics of your leaders!!!!

Please can just give me a very rough estimate of ‘many many German and other European’ natives?

100? 200?

And then get the figures of Mainstream Islam among the European natives – You will have to hang your head in Shame.

I am sure there are more European Natives as Hari Krishna followers or Buddhists than Ahmadiyyat followers!

If you think that being available 24 hours on TV Worldwide is success, is this exclusive to you only?
What about filth that is available 24 hours on TV Worldwide? Is that with Allah’s (swt) help too????????????????????

What is the big deal about presenting the Blessed Quran to Pope Francis? Did he convert to Ahmadiyyat and accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani's absurd claims?

In late 1970s and 1980s Sheikh Ahmad Deedat (rahimullah) had thrown several open challenges to Popes (Pope John Paul I and Pope John Paul II) to debate. The challenge was never taken up.

Many people have presented the Blessed Quran to Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth, George Bush etc, etc.

So what if your jamaat presented the Blessed Quran to Pope Francis– I am sure the interpretation/translation will be according to the Ahmadiyyat/Qadiani slant? Right?

You can dream on to your heart’s content as there is no charge for dreaming.

Islam is Complete – The Quran says so.

“and yet you say a mujaddid comes to revive the true teachings of Islam.” –That’s true, the Blessed Prophet (saw) said so.

Mr. Popat ‘to revive’ means to Invigorate/revitalize/energize/rejuvenate/strengthen/resuscitate

So the Mujadid will "Invigorate/revitalize/energize/rejuvenate/strengthen/resuscitate" Muslim Ummah to practice Islam in its pristine form.

Mr. Popat – Another trait that Ahmadis/Qadianis have in common with Jews is that they both have heaped a lot of absurd/obscene/offensive/immoral/degrading charges against Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) and his blessed mother.

Whereas the Quran states the following about them:
**
Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as)**

He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.** Surah Maryum 30 -33 ****

Maryum mother of Hz. Isa (ra)**

And when the angels said: O Marium! Surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of of the world.** Aal Imraan 42**

I dare you to deny the above. Do you deny that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani did not utter obscenities at these noble servants of Allah Almighty!!!

I would have posted the vile material but out respect of those blessed noble servants of Allah Almighty I am holding back as I don’t want to repeat those vile words uttered by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. So please don’t push me to it.

The above is one more proof that Ahmadi/Qadianis have same traits like the Jews.

Mr. Popat – You have to come out the cocoon of Ahmadiyyat – you are suffering from false sense of security of blind faith, so intrinsic to cult rationale.

Let me sum up the similarities between the Jews and Ahmadis/Qadianis

1) Both (Ahmadis/Qadianis) try to re-interpret Allah Almighty’s Words to meet their own nefarious desires.

2) Both (Ahmadis/Qadianis) mostly live in Diaspora - clear sign of displeasure form Allah Almighty

3) Both (Ahmadis/Qadianis) have very contemptible/despicable/depraved/vile material in their ‘holy books’ against Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) and Lady Maryum mother of Isa (ra)!!!!!!!!

I dare you deny that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani has not uttered any contemptible/despicable/depraved/vile against the noble servants of Allah Almighty – Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) and Lady Maryum mother of Isa (ra)!!!!

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

^Would just like to add that unfortunately, many among the mainstream muslims are more or less misguided too.

Good thing is, as Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) said, every century Allah will send someone from among the ummah to revive Islam. Not reinvent it, or add to it, or take away from it, but to simply revive it as it is. Islam is complete without need to add/take away from it. The Shariah of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) is eternal without bounds of times and trends. Muslims are encouraged to consult each other in matters concerning varying situations so long as it is done within the bounds of what Islam permits.

It's unfortunate (read; Tragic) that some muslims would attempt to amend Islam so that it molds around them; when in fact Taqwa of Allah requires that you submit completely and mold to Islam instead. Thus this topic...

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

I said the truth and there you are writng paragraphs after paragraphs. You know what. Write as much as you like. I have given you the example of Muhammad PBUH migrating. Yes by the will of Allah ofcourse. Thats my point. Prophets migrate and theres nothing wrong or uncommon about it. It is a way of Allah to spread the true teaching. You falsely accused jamaat e ahmadiyya to have been thrown out of the homeland and considered it a victory. I merely showed you this is not uncommon. Look at you all jumping up and down.

As far as what our Khalifas say, we are obligated to follow their commandments which are in accordance to Quran and ahadith and to spread the true teachings of Islam. Keep in mind, they are not divinely guided but divinely inspired. Our belief is that khalifa is chosen by Allah Almighty. What they say can be amended by either themselves or the future khalifa. So relax yourself about that.

As far as what I stated about people conversion. Well, this is the harsh truth that you must accept. Jamaat e ahmadiyya which literally is the true teachings of Islam is being spread all over the world. You cannot escape from this fact that people like you thought to stop the progress of jamaat within Pakistan or within India and now you see it being spread everywhere. Another harsh truth that should open your eyes is the opposition jamaat faces everywhere. Again, opposition is one of many sign of someone's truthfulness. I ask you, which jamaat out of all the sects(note i used sects and not jamaat as theres a difference) in Pakistan or elsewhere where they are being persecuted for their faith ? purely on claiming that Allah is one and Muhammad PBUH is his messenger ? What did we see back in history ? Muhammad PBUH and His early followers were being stopped from praying.. they were persecuted, they used to pray in hidden rooms, faced all sorts of extremism that today Jamaat is facing. Buddy, these things will go beyond your imagination. You are good at pointing fingers at others.. keep doing that.

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If you think that being available 24 hours on TV Worldwide is success, is this exclusive to you only?
What about filth that is available 24 hours on TV Worldwide? Is that with Allah’s (swt) help too????????????????????

What is the big deal about presenting the Blessed Quran to Pope Francis? Did he convert to Ahmadiyyat and accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani's absurd claims?

In late 1970s and 1980s Sheikh Ahmad Deedat (rahimullah) had thrown several open challenges to Popes (Pope John Paul I and Pope John Paul II) to debate. The challenge was never taken up.

Many people have presented the Blessed Quran to Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth, George Bush etc, etc.

So what if your jamaat presented the Blessed Quran to Pope Francis– I am sure the interpretation/translation will be according to the Ahmadiyyat/Qadiani slant? Right?
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This must be a joke. You dont see the difference, do you ? You are comparing filth that is on 24/7 with the voice of Islam ? Tell me what does it mean when Allah says .. truth has come and falsehood has vanished away.. falsehood indeed vanishes away fast. So, now Mr.Ibn e sadique, where has the falsehood vanished away ? What ever your answer is, accept it from your heart and dont criticize others for the same. Indeed truth has come and falsehood has vanished away.

As far as presenting holy Quran to Queen Elizabeth and vice versa.. the Quran is being presented by the Holy Khalifa of Jamaat e ahmadiyya, Khalifatul muslimeen, whose status your scholars know very well but you choose to live under a rock. One hadith states that whoever has not recognized the imam of His time has died a death of an illiterate.

Allah's success indeed. Today we are building mosques after mosques, delivering peace message door to door in western countries, holding symposiums, holding gathering where we defend Islam, defend the honour of Muhammad PBUH. Invites others to accept Islam. Yes, all peacefully, not by burning tires, not by destroying our own properties, not by killing innocent civilians. You my friend needs to calm yourself down and come in the real world.

Allah has stated that if Muhammad PBUH were to lie on my name, I would have certainly killed him. Now, keep this as an example and tell me that Hz Ahmad (as) claimed to be promised Messiah and the same Imam Mahdi, claimed that Allah almighty speaks to Him, According to the sayin of Allah, had he been wrong, He and his followers would have always faced defeat. But ALAS, the way of Allah is beyond your understanding. What you see as insignificant is what we see success.

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You can dream on to your heart’s content as there is no charge for dreaming.

Islam is Complete – The Quran says so.

“and yet you say a mujaddid comes to revive the true teachings of Islam.” –That’s true, the Blessed Prophet (saw) said so.

Mr. Popat ‘to revive’ means to Invigorate/revitalize/energize/rejuvenate/strengthen/resuscitate

So the Mujadid will "Invigorate/revitalize/energize/rejuvenate/strengthen/resuscitate" Muslim Ummah to practice Islam in its pristine form.

Mr. Popat – Another trait that Ahmadis/Qadianis have in common with Jews is that they both have heaped a lot of absurd/obscene/offensive/immoral/degrading charges against Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) and his blessed mother.

Whereas the Quran states the following about them:
**
Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as)**

He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.** Surah Maryum 30 -33

Maryum mother of Hz. Isa (ra)**

And when the angels said: O Marium! Surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of of the world.** Aal Imraan 42**

I dare you to deny the above. Do you deny that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani did not utter obscenities at these noble servants of Allah Almighty!!!
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It's very simple. You make it very complicated. And you do this because if you dont do it, you wont be praised by your fellow muslims havin same beliefs.

Muhammad PBUH is the greatest of all prophets. Muhammadi shariyah has been completed and Islam is now perfected. Allah has chosen Islam for us as a religion and calls anyone believing anything other than that as a loser. Then we have the concept of Isa (as) descent. We have ahadith stating his descent (not coming back). It's rather ironic to say with your tongue that Islam is complete and then we await Son of Mary. You need to first ask yourself :
1) if Islam is complete and in exactly the same order as what was revealed to Muhammad PBUH, then WHAT IS the need of Jesus (as)
2) if Islam is complete and yet we believe in Jesus a.s, then if he comes, will he believe in every single thing you portray as Islam ? if yes, then again, whats the need of his coming?
3) If islam is complete, which it is.. and we believe in Jesus a.s coming, if he comes, and preaches us the true interpretation of Quran and ahadith and be the just ruler about what is right in Islam and what was added later on in Islam by scholars, are we with Jesus a.s or are we going to hold on to the Islam our forefathers have left for us ?

These are questions that not only you will wrestle with, but your scholars even today have not a single answer to this. It is as if you are too proud of the fact that the version of Islam you have is the same one that was revealed on Muhammad PBUH, because its not. If it was, then muslims shouldnt have been in the condition and state that they are currently are now.

We have the best book, we have the best of best prophet, we have the best ummah, we are the best people chosen by Allah. What is it then that we Muslims keep seeing downfall? If we have sugar, suji, oil.. why dont we make halwa out of it ?

As far as what Messiah (as) said about Jesus a.s and His virgin mother was entirely based on the response to christian missionaries from their own books. Promised Messiah states that our opponents wrongly accuse us of saying such a thing and call it my belief that this is my belief.. it is not, infact how can I say such words about Jesus a.s whose metaphorical name is given to me by Allah. So my friend, think outside the box. Dont you feel for even once that how is it that the things you accuse someone and his followers believe something completely different. Is there not something wrong with YOUR understanding ? Had it been our belief about Jesus a.s and the belief of promised Messiah(as), why on Earth would we be refusing it? So , kindly, before raising accusation , sit back and do some research.

99

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Ibn Sadique,
May Allah forgive you for the words you utter. You say a lot and I can only seek forgiveness for you. One rule of thumb, and take it as my honest advise. If you cant accept the person sent by Allah, atleast dont oppose him. Seek Allah's forgiveness. If you cant do any good, try not doing anything bad. Have you not seen the end result of people opposing jamaat e ahmadiyya and speaking foul language towards the founder of Jamaat e ahmadiyya ? Many have come and gone, and many will keep coming. We fear not the opposition. We fear the end result of people who speak against Allah's chosen people.

That said, thank you for comparing Ahmadis with Jews. Although, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Allow me to compare you and the like of you with those of jews. If I may :

1) Jews awaits Messiah who will be from the the progeny of David

Muslims awaits a Mahdi who will be from the progeny of Muhammad PBUH

2) Jews awaits a Messiah which will reunite jews and give power to them and enable them to rule over the world.

Muslims awaits a Messiah which will reunite Muslims and they awaits a Mahdi who will give them power and will establish khilafah.

3) Jews awaits a Messiah by whose coming carnivores and herbivores eat side by side with harmony

Muslims awaits a Messiah by whose coming a child will be able to hold a snake without it harming him.

4) Jews awaits a Messiah who will bring peace to the whole world.

Muslims awaits a Messiah whose task will exactly be the same

5) Jews awaits for a prophet called Elijah to descend from skies literally becoming the appearance of Messiah

Muslims on the other hand, awaits Messiah Himself to be descending from skies literally with 2 angels supporting him from both sides.

6) Jews awaits a Messiah who will fulfill all the messianic prophecies foretold in Torah

Muslims waiting for the same Messiah who will fulfill the prophecies foretold in Hadith ..literally.

7) Jews used to hide the truth and used to tell half truth

Muslims doing the same, whether you believe it or not. Telling you one belief and not reconciling with other beliefs of Islam, and totally shut their eyes on how many other beliefs that one or two beliefs contradicts

Any more need for comparing more ? Hope this suffice.

Hadith states that Muslim Ummah will be like jews. We see that the hadith is fulfilled. Whats even more scarier now is that Allah sent wrath on Jews, now if Muslim ummah were to be like jews, are we under the warning of wrath too? nauzubillah?

Now, start with your allegations and pointing fingers again.

Peace.

100

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Mr. Popat - "The pot calling the kettle black" There you are writing paragraphs after paragraph and expect me to reply to you in one-liners. :)

Sorry, I am going reply to you in full so to expose what you present as the ‘truth’.

You don’t get the point, do you? All Prophets (peace be upon them all) whoever migrated succeeded and established themselves and their respective followers established a base for the faith.

Your jamaat had to uproot itself from its established centre – Rabwah – went into exile to foreign lands – Just like the Jews did.

Be assured nobody is jumping up and down on this side – Maybe you are just hallucinating.

So you mean to say that Mirza Tahir Ahmad was divinely inspired to say that Ahmadi population is 200 million in 2003

How could he give such a huge number without a second thought? Was he hallucinating?

All the Ahmadis/Qadianis are registered to pay Chanda – This is compulsory and not an optional issue.

All he had to do was count up the registered members and got the right number of Ahmadis/Qadianis. It is that simple, isn’t it?

Mirza Tahir Ahmad was with intent lying when he quoted that huge number!!!! He knew that he was lying!

His successor Mirza Masroor Ahmad was divinely inspired to say that Ahmadi population is 70 Million2008!!!!!

Mirza Masroor Ahmad was with intent lying when he quoted that (huge) number!!!! He knew that he was lying!

Most estimates number Ahmadis/Qadianis around 10 million!!!!!

Divine inspiration is always true – because the source is Allah Almighty!!!!

Inspirations that come to your Khalifahs are False. Truth and False don’t mix!!!!!!

So this clearly proves that your khalifahs are not divinely guided – the source of inspiration of your khalifahs other than divine – you know what that means. This is called satanic inspirations

Shall I inform you (of him) upon whom the Shaitans descend? *[26:221]*
They descend upon every lying, sinful one, [26:222]

Sorry to shoot your bubble down. Jamaat Ahmadiyyah has nothing to do with Muslim Ummah as they have opted to be Ummah of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani.

What you state regarding Prophet Muhammad (saw) is true. And what is also true is that Prophet Muhammad (saw) overcame all the obstacles within his lifetime.

You jamaat is still struggling for more than a century after demise of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. This is a clear proof that Allah Almighty is not with you!!!

Very conservative estimates state that there are 1,600,000,000 (1.6 Billion) Muslims.

Whereas Ahmadis/Qadianis are around 10,000,000 (10 Million).

Sikhs are about 27 Million outnumbering you lot

Jews are about 13 Million outnumbering you lot

Yet you keep claiming that Allah Almighty is helping you. ;)

Please do some research and don’t just keep swallowing what is force-fed to you in the Cult indoctrination camps.

You made a boast of being available 24/7 on worldwide TV – Is that unique to you?

Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and even atheists have 24/7/365 TV channels.

You are crowing about one Station, Do you know how many Channels are there run by Muslims? Please do some research and don’t just keep swallowing what is force-fed to you in the Cult indoctrination camps.

Khalifa of Jamaat e ahmadiyya – This is right

Khalifatul muslimeen – This is wrong

The hadith you quoted is true but is out of context here – Muslims are commanded to be aware of and not to follow false messiahs/prophets.

The above shows how much you have been brain-washed – Please do yourself a favour, use the google service and check how many Mosques (run by Muslims) are in just in London.

Now your jamaat’s international is base is London – Your jamaat’s presence there is insignificant.

But you can dream on as dreaming is free and has no limits on imagination. Keep stretching it. :)