Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Salam Alaikum,

This is a question that I have been thinking about for a while. What makes me think this question is the fact that Bani Isareel made a covenant with Allah through Prophet Musa (a.s.) that they would abide by Allah’s commandments. Later in history, what happened with Bani Israeel is clear as black writing on white paper. It’s all recorded for us in the most accurate manner in various texts.

So, if Allah dispersed them because they broke Allah’s covenant. How do you think today’s muslims fare when in essence we make a covenant with Allah 5 times a day. Some of us do not even delay a moment after the salah, that we’re doing the very things that Allah forbids us from. Dealing in interest, lying, being a part of and not raising voice against the wrongs in our society, the injustices that we might witness on a daily basis.

What is today’s muslims’ destiny if we continue to behave this way, and disgrace the noble oath that we take 5 times a day formally; and so many times informally when we claim to have names of muslims, yet our acts are far from it.

Your thoughts are welcome. I would request only those with the knowledge of the matter to comment on this. If you don’t believe in the foundation of religion as a whole, please refrain from posting what your thoughts on religious matters are. Thank you.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Question is an eye opener....

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Assalam o Alaikum,
a very good and thought provoking topic. Muslim ummah has already been following the footsteps of jews in so many ways. Not just what you mentioned above, but also in terms of the beliefs as well. Muslims think whatever their forefathers have been teaching them is true and they oppose and infact fight against anyone having different opinion. If we just for a minute ponder upon the reasons why Allah sent wrath on jews, we can easily understand what Muslim ummah today is going through.

Muslims have been compared with jews for a reason and that reason is that just like jews used to take prophecies literally, there had to come time when Muslims were following them exactly in the same manner. We Muslims pray to lord to guide us to the path in which he sent rewards/grace, but the next minute we forget or dont even care to see who were those who were given reward and what does reward mean in accordance to Quran..

Muslims need to open up their eyes, stop following jews footsteps in every way and be the kind of Muslims Allah and his messenger expects them to be.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

“Allah's Messenger (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: 'You will indeed follow the ways of those before you, hand span by hand span, and an arms length after another. Even if they enter into a lizard’s hole, you will follow them.’ We (the Sahaba) asked, ‘Is it the Jews and the Christians?’ He replied, ‘Who else!’” [Bukhari]

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Yes. Happily.

Majority of Muslims have been blindly believing in whatever their forefathers have believed, without giving it a second thought if its even in accordance to Quran and ahadith. They have handed over religion in the hands of mullahs/scholars happily and they affirm anything that they say as halal or anything that they say as haram without going back to the book of Allah. Same is/was the case with jews too. Prophet Muhammad PBUH in one of the hadith says that following scholars and affirming them in everything they say is shirk.

Another thing I mentioned is about taking prophecies literally. Think about what scholars teach common muslims about coming of Jesus a.s. Just like how jews took prophecies literally, so are today's Muslims. Hence, the words of hadith stand corrected.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Peace Mr.Popat

Actually you are not viewing this the right way ...

First of all the ahadith refer to signs of this happening in the Ummah, but not en masse among the Muslims - the majority will be preserved from this.

1) It is true that the majority of Muslims believe and follow our leadership - this is not what the Jews or Christians did ... They changed and altered the interpretations and the word and the rulings were being partially applied. If anything the clergy of the Jews and Christians changed and altered the meanings. They became sectarian amongst one another.

2) Also we are each obliged to check up what our teachers say - that is why we are given references in hadith, that is why we have ilm-ul-rijal ... so the accusation of Muslims doing this is not true. However, some Muslims not the majority Alhumdillah can be charged with this - leaving things in the hands of their leaders. I read and learn from a multiple source of Islamic references - do you Mr.Popat?

3) The part you mention about prophecies is just LOL ... You always bend it like Beckham back to the End Time prophecies ... Where in the hadith does it mention anything about taking hadith literally where they should be taken metaphorically? The Jews were being zealous - there is a difference in zealousness from literalism/fundamentalism. Being zealous is to turn the guidelines in to laws - the breach of which warrants criminal justice ... It is a type of zulm. Being literal or metaphoric depends on how the revelation presents itself to us ... Again some Muslims are zealots ... and likewise some Muslims do excesses in religion - just like the Jews and Christians ... Takfir and exclusivity, cult formation, etc is all part and parcel of the degradation of a religious community. Alhumdulliah the body of the majority of Muslims is free from this ...

Not from a creed/dogmatic point of view - but from a taqwa point of view I admit the majority of Muslims will fall prey to developing a love of dunya and fear of death ... this is what has brought the downfall to us thus far.

P.S. Between you and I - you are literal in areas we are not and metaphoric in areas we are not and vice versa ... This is our difference in a nutshell.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Looks like a post from Mirzais/Ahmadis. That's exactly how they perceive the situation.

In their parlance:
Muslims Version 1.0 (Muhammadans) = Jews
Muslims Version 2.0 (Mirzais) = Christians

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

:wsalam: & Peace Teggy,

Very nice topic and very vast too, because its not only remind us about our history but also precaution us that not to do/act in any way which is against the prescibed law of Almighty Allah and against the teachings our beloved Prophet Muhammad :saw2: . What mentioned by our Prophet Muhammad :saw2: in that hadith, similar to that is also mentioned in Holy Qur’an (in various chapters) by Almighty Allah. Its difficult to summrize our thoughts in few phrase but I’ll try to explain as per my understanding in hope that you guyz will correct me if I am wrong.

Almighty Allah said in Chapter 2 verse 63: “And [recall] when We took your covenant, [O Children of Israel, to abide by the Torah] and We raised over you the mount, [saying], "Take what We have given you with determination and remember what is in it that perhaps you may become righteous.”

In ‘Torah’ Almighty Allah said to Bani Israel to abide by HIS book ‘Torah’ but they didn’t followed (may be due to their ignorance or consciously) and were fallen under HIS wrath.

The words ‘become righteous’, repeated many many time in Holy Qur’an so that we may become righteous, if only we abide by the book i.e., the Holy Quran. Almighty Allah said (in Chapter 2 verses 2-3): “**This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah. **Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,” .

So, without going into any interpretation of the above verse, if we take out two lines (1) Who establish prayer and (2) Spend out what HE have provided us with, and after then when we apply these two lines on us and see that whether we are abiding what Almighty Allah ordered us or not? The answer is clear and immacluate.

Why to pray alone? I’ll join you or you join me so that we establish prayer. I earn 1 ruppe and half from it is given in charity by me but now I can’t give half anymore in charity b’coz I’m in need to earn 2 ruppe (more), instead of 1 ruppe and that is for what?

Hope what I wrote make sense.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Peace,
You need to do a reality check. Even a 5th grader could see resemblance of majority muslims with those of jews. It is merely your claim that majority will be preserved with nothing to back it up. It is Jews traits that you are following. Calling anything they say as halal and anything that they say as haram. Yes, that is a trait of jews too. There is also a hadith on this as well. I can find the exact wordings of that too. Also, as you rightly mentioned, they used to hide the true meaning and altered the true teachings of their religion. Same is being done by Muslims as well. Muslims scholars very well know the true interpretation and true meaning of ahadith in regards to latter days signs etc but they choose to only tell you things which the majority wants to hear and totally neglect what truth is. This is the reason why no one has the courage to talk to Ahmadis, they know it very well that they have no answer to our questions. But anyhow, if you do a reality check you will know the hadith has come to its fulfillment.

No. You do not check on what your teachers tell you. that is the problem. Scholars tell you certain type of people are wajabul qatl, you affirm that they are. There are so many other things I can mention and possibly quote from your ullama's books but I wont do it for now. They say anything and you do not question them but rather support them blindly.

Muslims waiting for literal coming of Jesus a.s from skies. Jews on other hand awaits the coming of Elijah from the heavens before their messiah appears. Today's Muslims awaits for global peace upon the coming of Jesus, so does Jews. Muslims awaits for the time when there will be no wars and everyone will be living in harmony.. guess what ? so does Jews. Todays Muslims take every single prophecy in regards to the coming of Jesus literally. Wearing of 2 clothes, yellow in color, accompanied by 2 angels when descending, dajjal being 1 eyed monster, doing what is mentioned in ahadith literally. Think about it !! Taking it literally like jews is absurd!

Keep in mind the comparison is between jewish and muslims in every way. Prophet Muhammad PBUH warned us not to follow their footsteps. What have they done? Rejected the true Messiah on what basis ? If only you knew. But whats sad is that you do know, and even then you have your eyes closed.

Keep it up. That's all I can say. I seek shelter from Allah to enable me to follow the true teachings of Islam which the Muslims have gone far from, and may Allah enable all Muslims to correct their spiritual condition. ameen.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

I would disagree, and say that muslims are in the footsteps of Bani Israeel because just as Bani Israeel abandoned their covenant with Allah, amended the religion, brought about innovations which exceeded the limits allowed, and eventually desired to change the laws because they were deemed "outdated".

Muslims today are doing one, two, three, or all of those things. Those who are unable to have laws established that bend Islamic law, are content in arguing that the laws should be changed since they're outdated and no longer applicable.

If anything, muslims should start to take the prophecies literally, and act to become better muslims so that they don't follow Bani Israeel. Your point of view about muslims waiting to Isa (a.s.) being a bad thing is in total opposition to the hadiths that confirm the coming of Isa (a.s.).

As far as I remember, the Prophet (s.a.w.) told us to seek guidance by two things; Quran and Sunnah (we learn sunnah from hadiths). So, I hold on to both. Take guidance from both. And if the hadiths mention the coming of Isa (a.s.) then I rejoice and hope to be alive that day. How can you not?

Don't you feel that the muslims are in this condition because they've relaxed their practice of faith? It's very peculiar that you think muslims were acting like Bani Israeel by believing in recorded prophecies that are mentioned in the hadith. Quite the contrary, in fact.

I do agree though, there are those among our communities who call themselves scholars, but are far from it. They either are too rigid (which Prophet s.a.w. forbade), or too linient in their religion (which both Allah and Prophet s.a.w. warned against). Brother Psyah summarized it best in his post. (JazakAllah brother).

Allah knows best...

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Every religion has some good points and bad points. People who take teachings literally are the problem, not the solution.

Thankfully, there are many here who apply common sense and interpret the teachings to the benefit of humanity. The future is those folks, and not the literalists. IMHO.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Literalism amongst the Muslims of this Ummah is a misnoma ... Upon closer investigation the reality is not that people are "taking the religion too literally" but rather various groups draw their lines of literal and metaphoric in different places ... Some draw their lines from a tradition that they have inherited and these lines have throughout time varied based on the political powers that were in place ... however, never have they been so extreme as they are today ...

Then there is another distinguishing factor amongst the Muslims today ... some argue for a position to please the dominant waves of humanity, some argue for a position because it is easier for them adopt, some argue for it because it seems hard and religion should be hard so their often take a hard line stance and so on ... Often the hard liners good trait is that they are quite adherent and sincere and often the soft liners can let things slip ... It stems from the psychological disposition that "what I do is correct" - people least want to be hypocrites ... so they frame their version of Islam around what suits them ... However, the good trait that the soft liners seem to have is that they are more equipped for society and justice amongst people.

The most difficult position to assume and arguably the best and hence the most true to Islam - would follow that people are strictly adherent and impose this on themselves and when it comes to others they adopt a soft line ...

There are various axes for the type of Muslims - there is the axis of leadership - "election vs inheritance" - found amongst the Sunni and Shi'a ... there is the axis of general interpretation of fiqh - "traditional vs intellectual" - (where tradition provides one set of literal and metaphoric criteria and intellectualism divides those lines up in a different way) ... There is the exclusivity vs inclusiveness approach too ... which is what determines one school is more like a cult or not.

So your 5th grader who sees the resemblance of Jews with the majority of Muslims is interesting - I would like to hear just 5 things you feel Jews and Muslims have in common while at the same time are not common in the people you follow ...

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Pardon me for not believing Dajjal to be a one-eyed monster (larger version of "Mike Wazowski" from Monster Inc. eh) and also for not believing jesus taking a parachute dive from the skies. I dont want to turn my religion into a Hollywood Movie.

And just for clarification, we do believe in coming if Issa. Just not the same Issa and not via a skydive.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Who is "we"? And how do "we" believe Isa (a.s.) will return? And how does this tie into similarities with Bani Israeel and today's Muslims?

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

By we I was referring to the beliefs of Ahmadis. As to how we believe Isa (as) will return, its a lengthy discussion, which has been debated many time over on the forum. In short, we dont believe that the returning Isa is the same as original Issa (a.s), but rather someone else who is similar to Issa in characteristics and he came through the same process all other prophets.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

.....right...

May Allah (swt) guide us all to the Sirat-e-Mustaqeem.

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Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

... And may Allah save us from the "one eyed monster" also

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

And to not forget - - Allow me to add the following: May Allah save us from the ‘wannabe mahdis or false prophets’ :wink:

Interesting article pasted below

Hadith Explanation

Defeated Nations

“Allah’s Messenger (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: 'You will indeed follow the ways of those before you, hand span by hand span, and an arms length after another. Even if they enter into a lizard’s hole, you will follow them.’ We (the Sahaba) asked, ‘Is it the Jews and the Christians?’ He replied, ‘Who else!’” [Bukhari]

We see the fulfillment of this prediction all around us. Muslims imitate non-Muslims in their dress, in the greetings that they use, in the holidays that they celebrate, in their modes of entertainment and even in their definition of right and wrong. It used to happen in the past that defeated nations would start worshipping the gods of their conquerors, believing them to be more powerful and thus responsible for their conquest. Muslims, especially their leaders, seem to be suffering from an inferiority complex at least as powerful as this.

In 637 CE Jerusalem offered a truce, provided that the Khalifa come himself from Madina to sign the treaty. Umar (radi Allahu anhu) set out for Jerusalem with a slave and a camel. The slave and he would take turns riding the camel and they also gave the camel time off from carrying either passenger. When they approached Jerusalem, Umar (radi Allahu anhu) was walking and had to cross through muddy ground, as a result of which his feet and clothes got mud on them. When Umar (radi Allahu anhu) entered Jerusalem, he was holding the rope of his camel leading it and his clothes were patched and muddy.

Abu Ubaidah (radi Allahu anhu), the commander in chief of the Muslim army and himself a very pious man, suggested that he change his clothes so that the people of Jerusalem, accustomed to the pomp and grandeur of kings and emperors, were not dissuaded from handing the keys of Jerusalem over to him. Umar (radi Allahu anhu) hit him hard on the chest and reminded him that they had been a disgraced nation. What had brought them honour and elevated them was Islam; should they seek honour from anything else, they would surely be humiliated again. “The only way for success is the way of the Holy Prophet” he said.

When the people of Jerusalem saw Umar’s simplicity they started crying. Another narration states that the books of the Christians foretold 14 patches on the clothes of the person to whom the keys of Jerusalem would be handed. Hazrat Umar’s clothes had 14 patches on them.

This is a very important lesson for us. It was Islam that gave Muslims dignity, not entourages, designer suits, name brands, foreign degrees or adopting the sins of the Kuffar. This slavish behaviour of ours has not brought us even an iota of respect. There is nothing but disgrace for us as long as we don’t return to the path trodden by the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam).

Daily Hadith – Hadith Explanation | Defeated Nations

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Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

This is truly the greatest Fitnah that muslims have been facing for generations. Dajjals started to appear within times of Khulfa-e-Rashideen shortly after the death of beloved Prophet (s.a.w.). It’s only logical that these attacks would intensify over centuries, when we’re left to our devices without noble people like Sahaba at helm of Ummah’s affairs.

Our reward is also greater because of this very fact, that those of us who survive the fitnahs, hold steadfast to the truth despite whispers of devils, would have done so without a proper leadership in place.

Ameen to your duaa.

None of us would knowingly follow the Bani Israeel. It is our weak Iman that would make the ways of Bani Israeel seem compatible with Islam, it is thus through that one step in the wrong direction that we depart from the straight path and end up among the following of Dajjal. It would have been too late by then.

Allahumma Ajirni minan-naar (Oh Allah save us from the fire)