Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Please refer to the Quran – Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum spoke in the cradle and gave the proof of who he was.

Are you going to deny the Blessed Quran now.

But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.
Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a ! son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is
. Surah Maryum 29 - 35

Are you out of your wits???!!!!

The scholars are the inheritors of the prophets. [Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasai, Ibn Maja, Ahmad, Ibn Hibban, and others]

Abud-Dardaa (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported:* “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) say: ‘Whoever treads a path due to which he seeks knowledge, Allaah will make him tread one of the paths towards Paradise. And the angels lower their wings out of contentment for the seeker of knowledge. And verily all those in the heavens and in the earth, even the fish in the depths of the sea ask forgiveness for the scholar. And verily, the virtue of the scholar over the worshipper is like the virtue of the moon on the night of Al-Badr over all of the stars. Indeed, the scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, for the prophets do not leave behind a dinar or a dirham for inheritance, but rather, they leave behind knowledge. So whoever takes hold of it, has acquired a large share (i.e. of inheritance).’” -* reported by Abu Dawood, At-Tirmidhee and Ibn Hibbaan, and this is the wording found in his collection, in abridged form. Al-Bukhaaree mentioned in his Saheeh Collection in his Book of Knowledge, Chapter: Knowledge precedes Speech and Action, the part from it:** “The scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets.”

First let me state about Imam Mahdi (ra) – He will be recognised in Masjid al Haram before the fajr prayers.

That is the first and foremost sign – his physical features and lineage later. Rest to the signs will come true along the time.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was confined within the borders of Punjab!!!!!

Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will descend in Damascus just before the prayers – that is the first and foremost sign; the rest of the signs will come true as time goes on.

I don’t think that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani could point in which direction Damascus was from Qadian.

Buddy I did that and the proof is that I have taken precious time to reply to your posts in entirety. I hope that you appreciate that.

Indeed Guidance is in Hands of Allah Almighty

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

It goes without saying that in order to accept advice from "The Guided One" (Imam Mahdi), you first acknowledge that YOU are on wrong path and NEED GUIDANCE.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Just something to think about. If Allah has enjoined prayer and poor-rate on Isa (as) so long as he lives, how many poor people are in heaven for him to give zakat to?

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

^ I wish you had thought well before posting the above.

Do you really think there will be poor people in Heaven??????

Poor you, think again.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

..

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Precisely my point, there are no poor people in heaven (or wherever he is according to your beliefs) to whom Issa (as) can give zakat (which has been prescribed on him for as long as he lives). Either Issa is not discharging what has been prescribed on him by Allah, or he is not "alive". Take your pick.

I am sure you will produce a twisted explanation of this verse of Quran to fulfill your flawed belief, something you so rapidly accuse others of.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Worry not I am not a follower of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani to resort to twist and askew the ayahs of Quran to justify my beliefs.

Refer to the following ayahs of Quran:
*
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-* Quran 4:157 – 158

Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) is very much alive in heaven. He was not killed or crucified - Allah Almighty is witness to this - Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) mission as a Prophet of Allah Almighty was completed and Allah Almighty raised him up unto Himself.

Now please spare us the debate about Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) being alive in heaven - this has been done umpteen times on this very board. We all know a lot about Ahmadis/Qadianis beliefs.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Peace obaid1982

You don't have to be alive let alone on the Earth to be giving charity to others ... who are on Earth

**“When a man passes away, his good deeds will also come to an end except for three: Sadaqah Jariyah (ceaseless charity); a knowledge which is beneficial, or a virtuous descendant who prays for him (for the deceased)” Narrated by Abu Hurairah, Sahih Muslim*

*It is also common understanding that Isa (AS) is teaching the servants of Allah (SWT) in his current abode ... which also qualifies ... otherwise there is no sense in asking the question because you are assuming two things:

1) That giving sadaqah is a cotninuous process - it is not - it is done in installments although the benefits can be continuous
2) The time duration in the current abode of Isa (AS) is the same as ours

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

A quick tip to our Ahmadi brothers here ... When creating strawmen to refute the established ideas of Islam - first see if those strawmen are not inadvertently breaking other Islamic concepts first or that they do not compromise your own positions too ... it will save you a lot of hastle.

E.g. - The truth of mi'raj vs what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed he saw
E.g. 2 - As above - Isa (AS) alms-giving in heaven - but not looking at hadith about alms-giving of people who have passed away being possible.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

^psyah sahib, What are you saying? doesn't make any sense. let me give you a hint: the verse in question states "..as along as I live..". so what is the question of after-life here?

moreover you should able to see the difference between sadqa-e-jariya and zakat. zakat is given regularly, actively and is given in lifetime of a person.

So this verse tells us that jesus(as) will be living among people, in a society (where such rules applies) before his death

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

As to the topic of this thread, the key for us is surah-e-fatiah.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

When is Zakat due.

First condition

Zakat payment is due on person, who has annual income less expenses, agriculture/dairy wealth/gold/silver wealth. (Those who are knowledge please correct me if I have erred)

The second Condition

There should be deserving people who qualify to receive the Zakat.

I found the list of people who qualify for receiving Zakat.
**
Recipients**

According to the Quran, there are eight categories of people (asnaf) who qualify to receive zakat funds:

  1. Those living in absolute poverty (Al-Fuqarā').
  2. Those restrained because they cannot meet their basic needs (Al-Masākīn).
  3. The zakat collectors themselves (Al-Āmilīna 'Alaihā).
  4. Non-Muslims who are sympathetic to Islam or wish to convert to Islam (Al-Mu'allafatu Qulūbuhum). (Some scholars disagree whether the poor who qualify should include Non-Muslims. Some state that Zakat may be paid to non-Muslims, but only after the needs of Muslims have been met.)
  5. People whom one is attempting to free from slavery or bondage. Also includes paying ransom or blood money (Diyya). (Fir-Riqāb)
  6. Those who have incurred overwhelming debts while attempting to satisfy their basic needs (Al-Ghārimīn).
  7. Those working in God's way (Fī Sabīlillāh).
  8. Children of the street / Travellers (Ibnus-Sabīl).

According to Muslims Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is guest of Allah Almighty. So he has no income as he is not in trade or in employment.

Keeping above in mind Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is exempt from giving Zakat

Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is in Heaven where there are none who qualify to receive Zakat.

So the Zakat is a not an issue here for time being. On his second return Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) will pay his Zakat.

The only reason Ahmadis/Qadianis persistently insist that Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is dead is to legitimize Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani’s claim to Messiah (Hz.Isa ibn Maryum) second edition!

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

[QUOTE]

According to Muslims Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is guest of Allah Almighty. So he has no income as he is not in trade or in employment.

Keeping above in mind Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is exempt from giving Zakat

Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is in Heaven where there are none who qualify to receive Zakat.

So the Zakat is a not an issue here for time being. On his second return Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) will pay his Zakat.

The only reason Ahmadis/Qadianis persistently insist that Hz.Isa ibn Maryum (as) is dead is to legitimize Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani’s claim to Messiah (Hz.Isa ibn Maryum) second edition!

[/QUOTE]

Our belief regarding Isa(as) is firmly founded in Quran. It is not us who try to invent exceptions and overrun quranic verses just to be in line with majority.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Peace kchughtai

It does make sense ... The words here are "he enjoined on me salat and zakat" (Wa awsani bisalat wazakat) ... Here you are focusing on the wrong word ... Let's focus on the word awsani ... it is often translated as "enjoined on me" ...

What do you think that means?

Secondly, would Isa (AS) order others to do something that he himself had not done?

Please answer these two questions ...

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Lets see how many of the quranic verses you exempt Issa (as) from:

First you believe that he was raised to heaven and is alive, contradictory to numerous quranic verses describing prophets as "humans". You have already put Issa in a super-human category by giving him an un-usual lifespan to a human.

Secondly you believe that he will be exited from heaven and sent to this earth. Clearly Allah has mentioned countless times in Quran as Heaven to be an eternal place. We dont see any example where someone was exited from Heaven. Sure you would like to mention Adam (who was NOT exited from heaven, ... can be discussed in another thread). Even if we are to assume that Adam was exited from heaven, it was due to failing a direct order of Allah. And in a way he was punished.

Now you are suggesting that Issa (as) is exempt from giving zakat. What would be the point of quranic word of "as long as you shall live". By saying this you are naozobillah accusing quran of containing an "illogical" and "meaningless" phrase since it didnt even apply to Issa for much of his life (few years in earth and a millenium in heaven).

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

hmmm.. are you trying to say that Jesus (as) will be offering salat and giving zakat and asking others to follow his example in his second coming and not before that ? pls answer yes or no before I say anything further

Re: Are today’s muslims, yesterday’s Bani Israeel?

:nahi: … I’m going to show you inshaAllah why the word zakat here cannot take the meaning you are attributing to it.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Is today's muslims' dilemma limited to Isa (a.s.)? Or did we go off-topic somewhere?....

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

Again, I feel that our dilemma today is that of diverting from the core principles of the faith as Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) left with us. Some of us have done away with Sunnah/Hadith altogether, and base their faith solely on Quran. Quran and Sunnah go hand-in-hand.

When muslims started to make halal that which is haraam, and innovated the faith to make it tailored for surroundings, was the tipping point and we started on a downward spiral.

The emergence of Dajjals (up to 30), happens to be a fitnah that muslims are inflicted with. This is among the fitnahs of endtimes. Dajjals/Immitators have come and gone for many years since the passing away of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.). This again has been narrated in the Hadiths. The matter of Dajjal alone does NOT determine how muslims will follow Bani Israeel. Bani Israeel lost their favorite place with Lord because they took their rabbis as their lords, and allowed changes to the religion.

It is this innovation to the original values of Islam that take us away from the Middle Way.

Following the false prophets is another matter altogether, and has the potential to lead one out of Islam. If you deny that Allah (swt) Alone is worthy of worship (Not wealth, nafs, men, women, other distractions), and Muhammad (s.a.w.) is His final messenger to the mankind. No wahi comes to anyone after Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.). (I dare not cast judgement on anyone because I fear Allah; Allah alone is sufficient to judge between His creations)

The righteous among us have, do, and will continue to receive dreams. True dreams are a small part of Prophethood. And throughout history, the righteous among us have had dreams that have come true. This alone does not give anyone the title of Nabi/Messenger/Rasool. Anyone that claims to be a prophet after Muhammad (s.a.w.) is only inventing a lie.

Allah knows best.

Re: Are today's muslims, yesterday's Bani Israeel?

It is not part of the belief of Islam that Allah has now stopped communicating to His creation. A Muslim's belief should be that our God not only listens , but He also speaks. The concept of prophethood as our other fellow Muslims think is something so huge and that no one now has the capacity to be a prophet is wrong. Allah says in Quran that he reveals not His secrets to anyone except the Messengers he chooses. An independent prophethood has come to an end upon the arrival of the Master of Prophets, Muhammad PBUH. Allah has completed his favor upon us and have chosen Islam as a religion. However, a non-law bearing prophethood continues. This is the beauty of Islam. Allah says that the opponents of Islam will be the one without progeny. On the other hand, Prophet Muhammad PBUH has not only been declared spiritual father of all of us, but hes the Khatam of all the prophets. Anyone who claims to be a prophet must be full subordinate of Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH. No new prophet can now come which can abrogate a single law of Islam.

Allah has given us the glad tiding that anyone who follows Allah's commandments and follow the footsteps of Muhammad PBUH will be given 4 rewards. Out of which one is prophethood. This belief that I mentioned above is not something we made out of a thin air. This very belief is a belief of every single Muslim, with the exception that the prophet they're waiting will not be 'born' but rather He will be coming from heaven , namely Isa(as). All the other points I mentioned above are the ones Muslims believe as well, but in the personality of Isa(as) only.

How does having same belief and yet waiting for the person to appear can make one Muslim, and one who accept a prophet according to Quran and ahadith (believing Isa(as) to be dead and Allah raising prophet within ummah) is declared non-muslim is beyond my understanding.

Now, talk about the truthfulness of someone claiming to prophet. I suppose just one reason should be enough for now in favor of someone's truthfulness. It is Allah's help to that person. How is it possible that a person who claims to be a prophet gets to live some 23 years after his claim.. with Allah continuously supporting His cause. Continuously sending revelations to Him, continuously helping him. Allah says in Quran and addresses Muhammad PBUH that if even Muhammad PBUH had lied on Allah's name, Allah would have taken care of Him. We see people claiming anything in history, and we also know their end result. This is the way of Allah. But a truthful person continue to get enormous help from Allah Almighty and His jammat is being spread in every corner of the Earth. Is it nauzubillah ok to say that Allah forgot His promise that he will not let an impostor succeed ?

I guess the post will get longer if I type more. I'll just suffice with this much for now.
Peace.