Ok when I say socially liberal and open minded I’m thinking of both world view and personally as well. People who are generally non judgemental and have a live and let live philosophy to life. I don’t come from an area with many Pakistanis so I’ve always been told my views are unusual but for me they seem logical. I know Urdu and Pakistani culture and I believe in basics of religion but I’m not very religious so I’ve been told. I follow all the main principles so what is considered very religious?
When I say open minded I mean girls/guys who do not make judgments if partner has had past relationships or premarital relationships, who do not judge if their partner has worn particular clothes in the past as that was her choice(likewise with guys), who are not concerned with height/income of the partner as long as they have a job they passionate about, who are flexible with work life balance and supportive of their partner and do not believe in strict gender roles? Like what is wrong if a guy likes cooking or a girl is passionate about some male dominated sport or profession? What is wrong with a guy who likes to ballroom dance? What is wrong with a guy who wants to work from home, take care of kids and would rather support his wife with full time career if she is more inclined? I’ve been told these views are unusual and I need to change them if I want to appear good for a rishta. My friends told me if you want a girl who will accept these views it’s best to go for other south Asian, Arab or white Muslim girls. I disagree just because I do not know many does not mean many don’t exist.
I’d rather be myself and instead of the girl being on show and serving chai I’d rather invite the rishta family to my place and cook up a 3 course extravaganza with desi/western influence and include dishes which are favourites of a potential future wife and mil. Why does the girl always have to be on show? Why cannot we be slightly innovative with these age old traditions?
Are my views that unusual? Anyone have any of these similar beliefs or know people who do? Also I’d like to say i respect the views of those who are polar opposite and who completely disagree with my worldview. We can agree to disagree as long as we let each other have our own beliefs.
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
There are lots of liberal Pakistanis living inside and outside of Pakistan. You just have to find the right type of company and your views won't matter to them.
Being judgmental about past relationships is not just a Pakistani thing. It is natural for any man who didn't have any past relationships to be judgmental of a woman with a past.
But whatever views you have, I don't think they are too liberal by Pakistani standards. There is a large section in Pakistani society that might be more liberal than you.
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
It just depends.. Being liberal will vary for every individual.. What may be acceptable for you may not be for others, what may be for others may not be for you.. So its very subjective I guess.
Circumstances also make a difference.. Like Geezer mentioned above, a guy/girl may be judgmental of past relationships if they didn't have any, but if they did it may not matter as much.
We are all judged I supposed, someone wears sleeveless top, they will be judged and people my say at least wear half sleeved. If one was half sleeved then its like at least wear long sleeved, if you wear long sleeved then its like wheres the abaaya, if you wear aabaya where is the niqaab? this was just a clothing example but, it really depends on the individual.
But yes what does vary is the level of tolerance.. I may have differing views, ways, practices, beliefs to others.. But can one have enough tolerance to live with a partner with differing views/styles? Does tolerance mean, being accepting to others belief even if you dont believe it but is someone intolerant if you can 'stand' it but reject the rishta on those grounds?
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
Most Pakistani women do claim to be fearful of ending up with the "typical" Desi man who is narrow-minded, dominating, jealous, controlling, chauvinistic, emotionally / physically abusive, incompatible, uncooperative etc.
A guy like you should, logically, be a dream come true for them.
However I doubt most of them want a guy like you. Paradoxically.
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
There are lots of liberal Pakistanis living inside and outside of Pakistan. You just have to find the right type of company and your views won't matter to them.
Being judgmental about past relationships is not just a Pakistani thing. It is natural for any man who didn't have any past relationships to be judgmental of a woman with a past.
But whatever views you have, I don't think they are too liberal by Pakistani standards. There is a large section in Pakistani society that might be more liberal than you.
true maybe I have not had much exposure. My family is very religious and conservative. I am religious as well but not so conservative. My sisters wanted to learn ballroom dancing but parents weren't happy. Only when I said I would partner up with them did they agree. I agree with you I guess I have just not come across many liberal types yet. Thank you for letting me know I am not alone.
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
It just depends.. Being liberal will vary for every individual.. What may be acceptable for you may not be for others, what may be for others may not be for you.. So its very subjective I guess.
Circumstances also make a difference.. Like Geezer mentioned above, a guy/girl may be judgmental of past relationships if they didn't have any, but if they did it may not matter as much.
We are all judged I supposed, someone wears sleeveless top, they will be judged and people my say at least wear half sleeved. If one was half sleeved then its like at least wear long sleeved, if you wear long sleeved then its like wheres the abaaya, if you wear aabaya where is the niqaab? this was just a clothing example but, it really depends on the individual.
But yes what does vary is the level of tolerance.. I may have differing views, ways, practices, beliefs to others.. But can one have enough tolerance to live with a partner with differing views/styles? Does tolerance mean, being accepting to others belief even if you dont believe it but is someone intolerant if you can 'stand' it but reject the rishta on those grounds?
True Zainy It is all a spectrum even with clothes. I meant liberal as in even if you don't agree with something you are ok with others who accept it. You don't judge their world view as beng worse tha yours. Like with a lot of people in west we know pre marital relationships or live in relationships happen but even if we don't agree with it we understand and don't judge the people who engage in it. Who knows in a similar way they may judge us.
I agree if they didn't have any they might not judge. Though I remember even when I had not engaged in any relationships I was open minded towards women who had. I never felt that a female having a previous partner made her less worthy of a relationship. People make mistakes, they change and I'm not perfect. There are other more important factors for marriage than one's interaction with opposite sex.
I think tolerance is having different views but accepting views of others. For example if I had a wife who wanted to wear sleeveless, half sleeved, or hijab I wouldn't stop her choices. I would hope she wouldn't ask me to have a beard and so on. So for personal relationships I would prefer someone with similar level of religiousness to me. If we happen to evolve and grow with relationship we can adjust with time.
I think the rishta process can be more modernised and individualised rather than just a market where u look for someone with your criteria. I'd rather we look at entire person.
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
Most Pakistani women do claim to be fearful of ending up with the "typical" Desi man who is narrow-minded, dominating, jealous, controlling, chauvinistic, emotionally / physically abusive, incompatible, uncooperative etc.
A guy like you should, logically, be a dream come true for them.
However I doubt most of them want a guy like you. Paradoxically.
Haha thanks for the words.
I am hardly a dream I am not an engineer or doctor, or from a high status family so that crosses a lot of criteria. Lol . I wonder how much that stereotype is real or if it's media generalisation. I know a few Pakistani and desi guys who are complete opposite of that and they are open minded, willing to negotiate and be cooperative. Some of them have ended up with non-Pakistani women because the ones they came across wanted guys who were not like that. They were more into the bad boy who could be tamed. I don't know that many Pakistani girls to generalise. I have come across some open minded ones. Quite a few who have recently arrived are more open minded than some who have grown up in West. Might be dependent on location. All my pakistani female cousins are very conservative and they tell me I must change if I want to have a Pakistani wife.
I agree with you on what some may prefer is not what they say. A female friend of mine was in a rishta with this good looking fair guy with good job and family that her parents arranged. She didnt seem happy. Her parents were very happy but he was not faithful to her flirting with other girls, sometimes he was verbally abusive and I would say chauvinistic in his attitudes. He did not want her to work after marriage. So they had a disagreement and he flirted with this other girl. The rishta broke up. She came to me. I comforted her, we became closer friends and over some time I felt I was in love with her and she was with me, we informed parents. Her parents accepted but they werent that happy as i was not as successful. Then quite a few months later I found out she was still seeing her ex rishta and she told me she wanted to marry him. Obviously I was devastated. I was the only guy she had really been with. In the end I couldn't stop them but because I loved her a lot I took blame and said I wasn't ready for marriage. She apologised to me but I knew I was just rebound rishta for her and she never loved me that way. It was all about physical affection. She is married now, also very religious and conservative, she doesn't work and I am sure she looks down on me. He is very rich so he can give her all material comforts i could not. We never argued. She always used to talk about how she wanted to work and her ambitions. Now she does not even work. I just want to be successful find someone with similar beliefs but I have lost some faith in love as a concept.
I think they want is a bad boy type in short term they can tame and then a nice guy after marriage. I don't really want to change who I am for anyone. I'd rather be accepted as I am or marry outside the fold if need be. My culture is important to me so I am hopeful like minded Pakistani girls exist. if not I don't want to get married.
If u r not a doc or eng doesnt mean u r not successful
Education n success is important but sometimes its better to forget materialistic things n luk beyond "doc" title n find out how lovly someone can be even if he is not eng or doc
I even believe dat a guy who isnt successful but a nice boy ... then he still can be successful jus needs someone (a caring/loving partner) to push him
Wat to do with a handsome doc/ rich guy if he is not loyal if he doesnt care n if he has a gudlukin face but who knows content of his heart...
I dont care how many relations he had before ... he matters n the way he behaves n only he as a person is important NOT his ex n amount of them
If i support someone or if i love someone then i m open abt it.. dont believe in hiding it or behaving like "top secret" n i will support him even if a lot of ppl have prb with it... when m sure he is worth it i will do anything to suport him or to be with him doesnt matter wat others say....
N yess the girl who now sits at home n forgot all her working n career thing... she is not the only one most of girls quit studies or career if there is a rich guy n their life... a girl from uni left in last semester of our masters coz a rich guy proposed her n she married him immed. By the way the guy is divorced and is 36 n his daughter is 11years old n the girl (his new wife) is 23... BUT HE IS RICH.. so doesnt matter at all if there is a age diff of 13 years
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
Thank you miss malik. I agree with all your points as well and for me if I love someone I support them I don’t believe in hiding even if others have problem. You have 1 partner in life and i think you should be there for them always. They should be number 1 priority along with parents. You should also respect their parents same way.
True job doesn’t tell if you are successful. I was doing eng my heart was not in it so i dropped it it was shameful for my parents and sometimes they blame what’s happened with me to that. If I was an eng more girls and their families would be interested. I chose something creative like architecture and Insha’Allah with hard work I’ll become successful. One day I want to do charity projects, travel and even become a writer. other negatives they say is I have is my skin colour, my height -I am moderate height, there is interracial marriages in my family which not everyone can accept and my parents want me to marry someone who is Pakistani.
I agree how lovely someone is u can’t tell by job or looks. All that is going to fade. its their personality, Actions that stay behind. What if someone’s jobs or look change will the wife/husband leave? No so why we choose someone on that.
That is true. I guess they say behind every successful man is a woman
Content of heart is important and hopefully people will see that over things like just looks and job and family. Main thing is having things in common and being able to support each others dreams.
Thanks for not judging about this. I think most people will and they have right to if they haven’t had any relationships. I’m in late 20s so I’ve had relationships. Always serious first ones didn’t work out because the girls were from different background and didnt they think they could adapt to culture. Last one was Pakistani but she found someone else. Same way I shouldn’t judge girls who have had past rishtas or marriages.
I have made a thread on my story I think u might have read. If you can give me some feedback on how I can be better in future if I am in another rishta situation it would help me a lot.
I get nervous around girls and find it hard to trust now but I want to get over it as I’m in late 20s and Shaadi is something I want to do one day. I feel like I’m not good enough for any girl and I will never find anyone.
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
N yess the girl who now sits at home n forgot all her working n career thing... she is not the only one most of girls quit studies or career if there is a rich guy n their life... a girl from uni left in last semester of our masters coz a rich guy proposed her n she married him immed. By the way the guy is divorced and is 36 n his daughter is 11years old n the girl (his new wife) is 23... BUT HE IS RICH.. so doesnt matter at all if there is a age diff of 13 years
I guess makes sense why work if you don't need to. So I need to become rich to have a chance? My career is one where takes time but I've got a steady job and one day i know I'll have a business. I might also get time to write on the side. I might not be super rich but one day I will get there. I'm willing to work 4-5 jobs to make sure my wife has comfortable living if she doesn't want to work. If she wants to work I'll support that because staying at home can also get boring. I'm also fine with helping at home as much as I need to. I will be there for her in sickness and health as well as good or bad times.
He is 36 with 1 daughter??? Would the girl mind if he married again and had few more wives or mistresses? I only want one wife to be there for my whole life. How does she know he won't divorce her for someone younger?
What if one day he loses his wealth and does not share any household work with her what she will do? Love >>>> money
I guess she wont mind if he gets married again as long as she has a villa to live in 10 latest cars in fron of her villa n a huge amount in haq mahar why would such girls mind!?
N u remember if a girl marries u jus coz of ur wealth than she can leave u one day for someone who is richer than u ... make sure u get a girl who isnt interested in ur money but in u ... girls who worship money dey arnt loyal n cant be gud life partner... only who is with u in ur bad days deserves to be with u in ur gud days
Re: Are there any/many socially liberal open minded Pakistani girls/guys?
I guess she wont mind if he gets married again as long as she has a villa to live in 10 latest cars in fron of her villa n a huge amount in haq mahar why would such girls mind!?
N u remember if a girl marries u jus coz of ur wealth than she can leave u one day for someone who is richer than u ... make sure u get a girl who isnt interested in ur money but in u ... girls who worship money dey arnt loyal n cant be gud life partner... only who is with u in ur bad days deserves to be with u in ur gud days
what she will do in all those villas and cars if she has no one to share with? How much will all that be worth in 20-30 yrs time when she is older? Wont she get bored of all this if her husband doesn't spend time with her or makes her feel special? Ure right u should never fall for girls who are after that. How do u tell? Or for girls how dou tell a guy is just after looks? Ure right a girl who is with u in bad days will be with u in good days. How to tell..
