Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
As for those who are of the point of view that it is the "right" of everyone to call and consider anyone kafir, should bring evidence in support of their stance from Quran and sunnah.
No one has the right to call anyone who calls and consider himself a muslim, a kafir. Actually, there is evidence in hadiths that whosoever calls a "kalima reciter" kafir, is inducing kufr on himself.
A linked question.
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Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
As for those who are of the point of view that it is the "right" of everyone to call and consider anyone kafir, should bring evidence in support of their stance from Quran and sunnah.
No one has the right to call anyone who calls and consider himself a muslim, a kafir. Actually, there is evidence in hadiths that whosoever calls a "kalima reciter" kafir, is inducing kufr on himself.
It is based upon holding an opinion. That's all.
It is not a crime.
Going beyond this boundary and hurt or kill other person who recites kalima or prays is definitely a crime.
According to hadiths if someone recites kalima, then there is admonition to kill that person.
The bold part may not be correct in your post. Since there are hadiths in which it says if someone calls other kafir then one of those two are kafir. Not just the one who calls other kafir.
"If a man calls his Muslim brother kafir, it applies to one of the two." (Bukhari)
"Whenever a man accuses another of being a kafir or wrong-doer, this accusation will rebound on him if the one accused is not in reality a kafir or wrong-doer." (Bukhari)
***It is a separate discussion who should be called kafir.
Re: Steeped in ancient mysticism, passion of Pakistani Sufis infuriates Taliban
aur Brailvies tou deobandi / Wahabeon kay peechay ja ja kar namaz parhtay hain aur unn ko kafir naheen kahtay hain 
mairay illaqay ka aik peer baray fakhar say batata hay kah main nay Makkay main koi namaz imam kay peechay nahin parhi keonkah unn kay peechay namaz naheen hoti hay … Bhai Sb. tali aik hath say naheen donoon hathoon say bajti hay aur donoon atraf kay ulma karam aik dosray par fatwa lagatay hain , iss hamam main sub nanagay hain chahay woh deobani hoon, ahle-e-hadiata ya phir brailve aur shia … :cobra:
okay bhai jan just change the name as “Brailvi Republic of Pakistan” .. aab khush :cobra:
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
Saleem
i asked for reference not your perception.The one who is using kuffar fatwa is you in this thread and that too with what you perceive those people to be.all i want you is to quote what they actually say.
Ali said, that they call every one other then them as kaffir but never proved this statement or didnt took it back.
Why it is difficult for you people to either prove your point or accept mistake.
I gave a link to a deobandi fatwa of kufr for barelvis, and there are similar fatwas from barelvis to deobandis. In case of groups like TTP they use these fatwas and actually kill people.
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
Who are Kharji ?
They are followers of Yazeed , they are not Muslims but they called Muslims their self and you know who are followers of Yazeed ? Who talks against Ahal-e-Bait, and who are Ahal-e-bait ? We 
!!! so anyone who speaks a single words about us he is Kharji and today’s kahrji in this discussion you and Bao Bihari :cobra:
main nay yah sub kuch aik majlis main suna tha iss liye gosh guzar kar dia warnah mairay pass itna knowledge kahan :hinna:
Re: Steeped in ancient mysticism, passion of Pakistani Sufis infuriates Taliban
They can keep any name of Pakistan other than Islamic Republic of Pakistan as for every sect the other is a kafir.
As far as I am concerned, I consider myself to be a muslim (only). In my grave I wont be asked if I was a deobandi or barelvi. Our mullahs have done a very horrible job in dividing people so badly in the name of sects.
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
Bhai.
TTP being khawarij or not is nothing to do with deobandi/barelvi thing.Mufti zarwali fatwa is based on what he believes about barelvis so he is of this opinion. Mufti zarwali is a very knoweldgable scholar but at times takes strict stances on certain issues. and you can find plenty of fatwa from each side based on how one side perceive other, like barlvi think deobandis as gustakh e rassol and thus extreme elements call them kaffir but not all.this is like saying all seculars are gays just because with my little knowledge i dont know about any one else.
If you believe that this fatwa makes them khawarij then i think pakistan should change its name to khawariji state.(Shia/sunni/deobandi/barelvi etc etc).I dont think that this link makes up a good case for TTP being khawarij and then you said that they think **everyone who disagree with them is kafir **which is not the case.
Please see this how scholors supporting jihad think about TTP. if pakistan army stops its offence TTP will loose the last soft spot and it will be better to tackle them at that time.
and most of drones strikes are done on those people who are not against pakistan(hafiz gul bahadur and his likes) but they are only giving shelter to other mujahideen. So it is not justified from that point also.
The Long War Journal - Charts on US Strikes in Pakistan
Mehsud only form very little portion of these strikes.
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Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
I wonder what kind of Shariah groups like taleban want to propagate:
1) By employing suicide attacks as every one knows suicide is haram
2) Using kids as bombers
3) Killing their perceived enemies indiscriminately. The prophet (SAW) has laid out the rules of the war and how the enemies have to be treated.
4) Condoning attacks on Churches and other places of worship
5) As far as freedom of practicing the religion is concerned one can just look at Saudia and see how open it is. After all these groups want to emulate that country around the world.
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
if pakistan army stops its offence TTP will loose the last soft spot and it will be better to tackle them at that time.
What if TTP stop attacking, the army will also stop its offensive.
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
I wonder what kind of Shariah groups like taleban want to propagate:
1) By employing suicide attacks as every one knows suicide is haram
2) Using kids as bombers
3) Killing their perceived enemies indiscriminately. The prophet (SAW) has laid out the rules of the war and how the enemies have to be treated.
4) Condoning attacks on Churches and other places of worship
5) As far as freedom of practicing the religion is concerned one can just look at Saudia and see how open it is. After all these groups want to emulate that country around the world.
We all wonder on this, but does that make them khawarij? Lets first decide this then inshalalh we all will bash TTP. :)
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
What if TTP stop attacking, the army will also stop its offensive.
Bhai kitni dafa bataya hay it is pak army who started the offence.
and my point here was that if we decide this TTp will loose the last support they have.
Lets stick to the topic at hand.
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
Pak Army started the offence? Really?
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
^ that's an excuse to obscure the atrocities being committed by a group against other sects and religions.
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
This thread was discussed here in 2008. TTP has issued fatwas against molana tariq jameel and others too.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/280763-fatwa-dubs-taliban-out-of-islam.html
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
One rumour supported by another rumour makes it a fact. 
if taliban were that much against him they would have never allowed tariq jameel to go to places like miran shah. Most vocal aginst these people is moulana ahmedwas bahawalpur still taliban have never tried to attack him but have complained about his stance on certain issue.
Taliban magazines contain article(reproduced) from tablghees(qari tayyab,moulana tariq jameel) ,sufis(shaikh zakriya and shaikh hakim muhammad akhtar) etc. Even they reprodcued one speech of tariq jameel sahib on jihad.
problem with mummy daddys is that they only can see/understand what english news paper has to say and it becomes very difficult to accept any thing against it.
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
read this
War in North-West Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
I remember once seeing an interview of some talib on a TV channel. The host asked him about their attacks on innocent people according to him they deserved (even the new born babies) to die as they are kafirs/Murtads as they dont create pressure on the army to stop the war. On another question he said that if his Ameer asks him to he will conduct a suicide attack even if his parents were amongst the people attacked.http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/280763-fatwa-dubs-taliban-out-of-islam.html
The edict said that all the acts of Taliban are against the basic norms of Islam and humanity. “Even the Taliban leaders are considering themselves and their directives as superior to true Islamic principles and directives as ordained by Almighty Allah,” the edict said.
Elaborating his point of view, the author of the edict states that the Taliban declare those infidel who oppose their ideas and interpret Islam according to their own needs and ideas, which is contrary to the all-embracing ideas of Islam.
**In this respect, the author of the edict invited the attention of Taliban Mufti Khalid Shah’s edicts against internationally recognized Islamic scholars like late Maulana Hassan Jan, Allama Taqi Usmani, Maulana Tariq Jameel and others. He said that such edicts of Mufti Khalid Shah against such highly credible and respectable religious scholars were available on Tliban-made CDs.
Mufti Zainul Aabideen further states that Taliban, despite chanting slogan of “Allah’s rule on Allah’s land” are ignoring this slogan in the areas under their control. They not only impose the system of their choice in these areas, but also forcibly collect the so-called taxes and fines from the people. They justify their terrorist acts discussing in mosques, schools and other public places and claim, “There is no sin in killing 100 innocent persons for one guilty person.” Islam prohibits killing of innocent people whereas the Taliban are killing innocent Muslims. Even they congratulate the terrorists and suicide bombers on, what they claim, “entrance into the heaven for killing the innocent people.”**
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
problem with mummy daddys is that they only can see/understand what english news paper has to say and it becomes very difficult to accept any thing against it.
lol...
if taleban are so islamic, why are they attacking/condoning attacks on sufi shrines, imam bargahs and churches? if they dont have any fatwa to support this then do you think what they are doing is un-islamic? or maybe taleban are not doing this after all? couldnt this be the act of black water to discredit good pious muslims like taleban?
Re: Are taleban today's kharijiites?
Khawarij were not just a religious group but also were politically active. This is no religious discussion because we did not discuss here their theology and whether they were correct in their takfir. Instead we looked at their actions which resulted in violence and death of people. This is what makes it a political discussion. Similarly, we did not discuss whether Taliban are correct in their takfir or not. Instead we are looking at their violent actions.
The post I quoted was all based on religion.
This is a very slippery slope. Taliban must be condemned, must be stopped and violent one must be eliminated, but not for their beliefs. If you start condemning people based on prophecies, then the process won't stop to one group.
I don't care if the are khawarji or not. They kill people because of the vitims' religious beliefs. Should we do the same?
They are criminals and should be treated like criminals regardless of what their ideology is.
Re: Are taleban today’s kharijiites?
Heer kon thee ranjha kon tha. 
*
Oo bhai we are discussing whether they are justified to be called khawarij or not. i think not. we are debating here , shikayatoon ki zaroorat nahi.
