Re: Steeped in ancient mysticism, passion of Pakistani Sufis infuriates Taliban
All i am asking is rather then hearsay , can you provide me evidences where they called everyone other then them kaffirs, as claimed by you people?
and i am not justifying them, i cannot justify killing of civilians by any one, i want prove other then media reports.
A person is Takfeeri if that person calls even a single person ‘Kafir’ who claims that he is Muslim (only exception is the person who claims to be Muslim is Takfeeri ... as then one can call that person 'Kafir' ... though as precaution we call him Takfeeri)
Why a takfeeri is Kafir? … because according to a hadith … When a person calls someone Kafir then either caller is Kafir or called is Kafir.
Now … since in Islam … if a person claims that he is Muslim … that claim of being Muslim (by default) also means the person has claimed that he believes on Allah and Rasul Allah (SAW) … and that also means he is reciter of Kalma-e-Shahadah … then it becomes obligatory on Muslims to not only accept him Muslim but treat him Muslim too and .. after a person's claim that he is Muslim … no one other than Allah on judgment day could judge his Imaan … unless that person himself retracts from his claim.
That means if someone do takfeer on a person who claims that he is Muslim (calls the person Kafir who claims that he is Muslim) then for every Muslim that caller should be a Kafir (according to hadith) as he has done takfeer on Muslim.
It also means, one can only call kafir who either admits that he is not Muslim … or Takfeeri (because, due to his takfeer, he becomes Kafir).
As for Kharjees , these people do not only do takfeer but kill or injure people based on their takfeer and other of their deviant beliefs.
I or anyone does not have to prove you that TTP and sectarian outfits are Kharjees, we all know that. Only thing I can say is that … if anyone do not want to see the proof then no one can open their eyes … and thus proof for them would be on judgment day (at their own cost).
In this world we have to make sure that all should be equal in the eyes of law, all should have right to live the way they like to live (without harming anyone), and no one should harms anyone due to their beliefs (doing takfeer on Muslim is biggest crime against a Muslim and for that punishment should be as severe by state), or take laws in their own hand. Implementation of laws should be in the hands of government who should respect individuals beliefs (as long as that belief is not harming anyone), and we have to distinguish between government functionaries and private (non-state) individuals (army could punish criminals, rebels, terrorists, etc ... but civilians have no right to fight army or punish innocent civilians).
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[Sorry but your post does not make any sense to me. You may choose to wish death for these people (dogs of hell aging less then 10 years - as many children die due to this drone strikes) just first of all kindly prove in a to the point post that they are kharijis.Your posts seems to go in all direction instead of giving me any concrete reply.i can reply to points raised in your posts but that will derail this thread as some of your comments are not related.
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Please be free to comment on my post and criticize how much you like, but do not lie in your accusation.
I have never said that all who got killed due to drone are Kharjees … or are ‘dogs of hell’ as you are trying to accuse me of in your post … as maybe 10 years old or even innocent grown up may have got killed due to drone. Only thing I wrote is that drones are doing good job killing ‘dogs of hell’.
If intention of an act is known than it is obligatory to judge an act on intention behind the act (Innamal amaal-o-bin neyaat). As far as I know, drones are not intentionally killing innocent people but drone strikes are only with intention to kill Kharjee terrorists.
Each drone attack cost millions of dollars … and there use is to save innocents people living around terrorists. Drones are used when government get information that terrorist are present at a place. In such situation, government could use bombers to kill terrorists, as it would be cheaper, but civilian casualties would be huge, hence Drones. Drones are used for precise bombing so that only terrorists get killed and innocent stay safe … though obviously some innocent may have got killed unintentionally (that is undeniable) … hence I believe drone is doing good job.
As for these terrorists being Kharjees … there is no doubt in my mind … and I gave adequate reasons for my belief. Maybe you have doubt… so before answering you (again … point to point) … I would like to know the definition of Takfeeries and Kharjees according to you … else I would keep calling something ‘Apple’ that you may be thinking is ‘Orange’. :)
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and thank you for your prayers, i am not supporting them and i cant, all i am doing is questioning why they are called kharijis. To me TTP and pak army both are just doing similar things, killing innocent people. it is my dua that this fitna/azab is eliminated from pakistan and we may live peacefully.
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You are welcome … obviously I pray that Allah keep you and your family safe from fitna of Kharjees … but in the end it is your choice.
Allah has given us enough intelligence to know right from wrong … and obviously basic intelligence, Quran, hadith and many other sources are there to guide us. Fact is that in this era of information boom, we have access to more information about Islam and related subjects, then most Muslims ever had in past. Only requirement is that we look at things without our own biases due to beliefs we learned from people we trusted over the years.
Anyhow … as you asked … you will get the answer why these people (TTP) are Kharjees if you understand what is Kharjees according to those who call them Kharjees… but if your definition is different than no one can convince you … and our differences would get sorted out on judgment day.
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i am of the firm believe that pakistan took the wrong decision based on propaganda by people like you to participate in war of terror which made some of our countrymen against us and now none of them is in right path. if this practice continue then once powerful clans of waziristan are against us then this will be much more serious then we think.
May ALLAH make peace talks between muslims possible and succesfull.
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Pakistan took decision keeping in mind Pakistani interest and that is what every country does (and they should do too). Taliban were not bothered about Pakistani laws or Pakistani interest, though Pakistan tried to help Taliban government as much as practically possible short of bringing harm to Pakistan. That is the reason Pakistan throughout American attack on Taliban government, kept recognising Taliban government until time Kabul fell.
Before bombing started in Afghanistan, Pakistan told Taliban government that they should handover OBL and Pakistan would see that he gets fair trial outside USA, in international criminal court at Hague. But Taliban wanted to go down the drain and that is what happened. Only problem is that, when they got beating from USA bombs they started biting Pakistani hands that always fed them.
Pakistan did not entered war but Taliban getting beating from Northern Alliance supported by USA bombers, started using Pakistani land to fight their war, and also started creating fitna and fisad in Pakistan (were neighbour from hell). And unfortunately, some Pakistani traitors joined them, also started harming Pakistan.
You should know that Pakistani army is not fighting anyone outside Pakistan that it could be called fighting for or against. Pakistan army is fighting armed rebels (TTP, Taliban, AL-Q, sectarian outfits, etc) within Pakistan, and that is duty of Pakistan army to fight any rebels within Pakistan fighting the state and killing innocent Pakistanis. Pakistan army is obviously on right path and doing their duty, as in every law (including Islamic law), states do not negotiate with rebels fighting state and killing innocent civilians. State fight these rebels and punish them severely.
