Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
in terms of your last few sentences, I would have been living in the United states when segregation was happening so I would be able to bring some sort of change but (i'm not old enough and didn't even exist at that time but just saying for the sake of this argument). All i'm saying is since I don't live in India what good am I going to do living so far away and not being active in some process(not violent) of change. If we want some change to happen we need to live in India for some time and make sure we get what we want from the politicians(easier said than done of course). Sitting somewhere in some other country and putting India's situation down constantly isn't going to do much or help the Muslim situation and India overall.
Muslim leaders need to become more active don't you think and see that they need to improve their own community's educational level/literacy and overall situation instead of being offended that Sania Mirza was wearing a mini skirt or bringing up such issues of no importance. I pray that religious relations do improve in India soon.
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
So then you also think we shouldn't criticize say, Israel, on the way it treats its Arab minority either. After all, we don't live in Israel, and we're not active in some process to improve civil rights for Israeli Arabs...therefore we should attack anyone who dares criticize their mistreatment. And consequently, it would also be totally out of line for me to say something like, 'comparatively speaking, the situation for Arab Muslims is better in Dubai than in Israel.'
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
No doubt, Pakistan hasn't been very kind to its Shia population.
But I still think the situation is better than in India. In India, it doesnt matter what sect of Islam you follow...Muslims in general occupy the lowest rung of Indian society, and face discrimination in education, employment, housing, etc....
You have no idea what you are talking about. If anything muslims have a lot more opportunities in India. They have quotas and reservations in college seats as well as jobs.
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
You have no idea what you are talking about. If anything muslims have a lot more opportunities in India. They have quotas and reservations in college seats as well as jobs.
No, apparently you have no idea what you're talking about. Look something up for once.
There are no reservations for Muslims at a federal level. Only 2 states have enacted legislation to provide any sort of quotas for Muslims...in Andhra Pradesh, where Muslims are nearly 10% of the population, they get a 4% quota...and the VHP has taken the state government to court to get rid of even that; and in Kerala, where Muslims are nearly 25% of the population, they get a 12% reservation.
Try not to make things up and pass them off as fact in the future.
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
^ You are misinformed.
Muslims are included in the BC and OBC categories of reservation which normally run 20 to 30 pct across the board. What you are talking about in Ap and Kerala is the attempts to create additional and even more exclusive reservations for muslims. TN and others also have tried to do that.
Obviously VHP and other organizations will object to creation of even more reservations. Does it make sense to you that muslim millionaire should get a scholarship over a needy forward community candidate? That is what is going on
The whole arguement in India is not about providing quotas and reservations for the needy. Th eobjections are to making such quotas on the basis of religion. Nobody objected to Bc and OBC quotas (in which hge numbers of Muslim communities were included) which in some cases ran as hight as 60 to 70 pct! But when they started pandering even more by starting to add and carve oout quotas based on religion things go bizarre and objections are made.
You quoted AP right? Here is the minister's own words:
"
Speaking at a press conference a few days after the promulgation of the G.O., Information and Public Relations Minister Ali Shabbir Mohammed said the move would give Muslim candidates 150 seats in medical and dental colleges, 3,800 in engineering colleges, 1,300 in MCA and MBA courses and 300 each in pharmacy and law courses.
Conceding that this raised the total percentage of reservations in the State to 51 per cent, he said that it was still much low than in the other southern States (Kerala 60 per cent, Karnataka 61 per cent and Tamil Nadu 69 per cent). The Minister added that the government would give legislative backing to the executive order and, like Tamil Nadu, would try to include it in the Ninth Schedule of the Constitution."
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
Muslims are included in the BC and OBC categories of reservation which normally run 20 to 30 pct across the board. What you are talking about in Ap and Kerala is the attempts to create additional and even more exclusive reservations for muslims. TN and others also have tried to do that.
Again, you don't know what you're talking about.
A handful of especially backward Muslim groups (dalit Muslims as they have taken to calling themselves) are included in those categories. A dirt poor Syed or Pathan or Rajput Muslim isnt going to benefit from those reservations. Moreover, lumping them together with several groups that far outnumber them anyways isnt tantamount to 'giving them reservations'...so your statement is misleading, to say the very least.
Oh, and FYI, the reason why nobody complains about the OBC reservations is because the vast majority of those groups are Hindu.
Speaking at a press conference a few days after the promulgation of the G.O., Information and Public Relations Minister Ali Shabbir Mohammed said the move would give Muslim candidates 150 seats in medical and dental colleges, 3,800 in engineering colleges, 1,300 in MCA and MBA courses and 300 each in pharmacy and law courses.
Like I said, 4% reservations. In a state where Muslims are 10% of the population.
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
^ again you refuse to see facts. Numerous muslim communities have always been included as eligible under the 30%+ BC and OBC quotas! The 4% etc that you are referring to are to carve out that as exclusively for muslims!
As to other communities being included in BC and OBC - what are you smoking? Why else would the BC and OBC quotas run 30% to 60 even 60% if it does not include non-muslim backward classes?
'
Oh and on top of that don't forget that they can also compete for the "unreserved" part of the pie.
So imagine this:
If you are a muslim you can apply for the general category +
If you are a BC/OBC muslim you can apply to the reserved quota +
If you are a muslim, you can apply to the 4 to 8.5% exclusively muslim quota
Now if you are forward caste Hindu you are competing only for the general category which is less than 50% of the total (because BC/OBC takes uo 60 to 70 pct of total) and even in that you are competing with well to do B, OBC, muslims etc.
So what is the impact? let's see:
If a Hindu boy scores 95% he is out because the general category goes to people who score at a cut of which i susually around 98 to 99.5%!
But if a Muslim boy scores even 75% he will get in!
And don't forget there are a lot more Hindu boys than Muslims.
And you talk about fairness and lack of opportunity?
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
This is absolutely true that while in India all sects and classes of Hindus and Muslims co-exist in harmany with only occasional friction, it is very strange that in Pakistan which is supposed to be for/by/and of muslims that more muslims are violated in the name of religious sectarian issues.
And my impression is that it is a relatively recent phenomenon. Because until may be 10 years ago, muslims were muslims - I hadn’t even heard of sects and subsects within islam. Now it is a everyday news item of either shia attacking sunni or sunni killing shia or someone blaming wahabi or someone else questioning whether some sect is muslim at all or not!
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
being a minority sect shias were very well represented in pakistani community in all walks of life until the saudi-sponsored sectarian groups started killing and bombing them ....sure there were shia-sunni disputes before this but never of this proportion and certainly not as bloody as nowadays
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
^ so they duke it out in Pakistan? Why do people of Pakistan fight the Saudi Iran battle killing themselves in the process? Guess money does strager things!
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
not stranger than US and USSR duking it out in Afghanistan, or Pakistan India dukingi t out in Kashmir.
Why people in Pakistan fight? Same reason Kashmiries and Afghanies did. Ethnic/religious/political divisions and loyalties exist, which are exploited by regional or super powers through financial and propaganda support.
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
And don't forget there are a lot more Hindu boys than Muslims.
And you talk about fairness and lack of opportunity?
And again, if a handful of backwards Muslim groups are lumped together with all the low caste Hindus, its all to easy to just pick Hindu students and claim that you're still filling the 'quota.' Which is why, despite the 50% reservations that you speak of, according to the Indian government's own studies, Muslims are still miserably represented in all the major institutes of higher learning in India. Or do you just believe that's because Muslims as a group are just that lazy and stupid???
And again, why have none of the Indians on here explained to me why its perfectly acceptable for property developers in upscale neighborhoods to say 'we don't sell to Muslims?' Is that all a part of your fairness and equality?
Seriously, you people sit around and b*tch and moan about how Hindus and Sikhs are so poorly treated in Pakistan, but go into complete denial when anyone talks about how badly your own Muslim minority is treated.
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
being a minority sect shias were very well represented in pakistani community in all walks of life
How has that changed? We're still rather well represented in business/politics.
Many of the wealthiest industrialists in Pakistan are Shias...the Hashwanis (who own the PC Hotels), the Lakhanis (who own all sorts of industial firms, and the McDonalds franchise in Pakistan), the Habibs (who started Habib Bank, among several other businesses), Syed Babar Ali (of the Packages Group in Lahore)...all of them are Shia...as are several major politicians like the entire Bhutto family, and Asif Zardari...and there is no dearth of Shia officers in the military and civil service...
The 90's were a bad time...I know a lot of Shia families that left Karachi in those days, but its not as though we've disappeared from the national scene either/
Re: Are Shia muslims safer in Pakistan or in india?
How has that changed? We're still rather well represented in business/politics.
Many of the wealthiest industrialists in Pakistan are Shias...the Hashwanis (who own the PC Hotels), the Lakhanis (who own all sorts of industial firms, and the McDonalds franchise in Pakistan), the Habibs (who started Habib Bank, among several other businesses), Syed Babar Ali (of the Packages Group in Lahore)...all of them are Shia...as are several major politicians like the entire Bhutto family, and Asif Zardari...and there is no dearth of Shia officers in the military and civil service...
The 90's were a bad time...I know a lot of Shia families that left Karachi in those days, but its not as though we've disappeared from the national scene either/
we all are sold to the corporates..
The persons who dont suffer are:
1) if u can afford to hire a lawyer who can give u justice...
2) a doctor, who can perform illegal kidney transplant..wen needed
3) know some politician who can twist rule in u'r favor...
rest all (poors) suffers in all walks of life...its not a matter of religion...(but if u'r in majority then atleast u can put up a fight against injustice)...