more anglicised? both india and pakistan were the same british colony at the time of independence. the brits left both countries with the same exact educational system meant to churn out clerks for the queen's empire. one can even make the claim that pakistan's founder and his men were clearly more anglicized than the indian leadership. the biggest difference, imho, comes from two policy decisions made in the first few years soon after.
land reforms - india passed a law that made it illegal to own tracts of land larger than a certain size. zameendari, a system that had been nourished and maintained by the brits to have a docile subservient population that paid taxes, disappeared overnight. pakistan is still a nation run by landlords, and ally strongly along ethno-linguistic lines in comparison with indians.
establishment of state sponsored institutions for agriculture, technology and learning. impractical dream-boy nehru established a whole bunch of these things throughout the country - most of them failed miserably and continue to do so, laboring on to their inevitable demise. but the ones that made it, teh educational instituions, have paid dividends.
you have a point, the landlords in Pakistan were and are in power, made laws to continue their positioning, and it has had a long term and continuing impact.
although I believe that the part of British Raj that became Pakistan had lower educational attainment in general even then, part geographic and cultural, and part due to the resistance to modern education many muslims had, an error against which people like sir syed rallied and established aligarh.
I think the policies caused further damage, but the mindset and infrastructure was not the same in all areas.
If I have to come up with a really general tags for both communities, I'd say Indians are book smart and Pakistanis are street smart.
And what is the basis of your comment to say that Pakistanis are more street smart. Hope it is not because you find more Pakistanis on the street loitering around :)
StormRaiser - not at all ... Fashion is not as wide spread but their talent for making "fashionable" clothes is high ... As with music ... for some reason although music is an oddity with the Muslim religious it is far more advanced in Pakistan than it is in India. Anyway this is detracting from my main point ... educational achievement is not the same as being smart.
Good Music is more advanced in Pakistan that in India. I have difficulty in believing this. I will take your word for it. Nobody denies that educational achievement is not the same as being smart though I believe it requires a certain level of smartness for educational achievments. It is very easy to belittle educational achievments but sometimes we would have to agree that grapes are sour.
Good Music is more advanced in Pakistan that in India. I have difficulty in believing this. I will take your word for it. Nobody denies that educational achievement is not the same as being smart though I believe it requires a certain level of smartness for educational achievments. It is very easy to belittle educational achievments but sometimes we would have to agree that grapes are sour.
Peace StormRaiser
Of course it takes a certain level of smartness for educational achievements - that is not my point at all. My point is that Pakistanis despite having those same "smarts" will not USE them - because of other factors. We tend to use the "smarts" in other ways.
In terms of sour grapes - I'm Pakistani - yes - but I certainly am not a proud one - I will be the first to criticise us and dissent in the attempt to stimulate progress and improvement. I admire Indian's in the good things that they do right ... but I am being fair to this topic as well.
Educational achievement is a beast that has many influencing factors:
Syllabus
Culture of effort
Natural Ability
Beliefs of what education can enable
The priority of education amongst other of life's demands
and so on ...
We only see the result and we can provide our own theories - but alas we must always make assumptions in our analyses. The truest scientific test would be to test people in controlled environments and you will probably find that the major factors affecting educational achievement is environment and society rather than any genetic factor. It would be logically unsound to conclude that Indians are smarter than Pakistanis purely based on academic achievement. I believe I have demonstrated with my experience on knowing both Indians and Pakistanis the more evident reasons for the disparity in the average achievements from both sub-groups.
I don't consider myself the dumbest Pakistani - and indeed you aren't the cleverest Indian either.
Hope you are not from Bihar :) The point that I was trying to make is about the different strata in the society. In the southern states especially Kerala, even the maid servant wants his son to study in an english medium school, while in Bihar the maid servant would want his son to take up kidnapping as a profession as it is more profitable.
True we have most of the civil services jobs being taken up by Biharis but exceptions are not examples. The lowe strata is more interested in better professions like kidnapping, extortion etc
ps: This is my opinion heard from different sources and is subject to change if proved otherwise
Then change your sources,secondary sources makes research less objective:), Heard about super-30?? Your point about lower strata is similar to all Malyali women wish to be nurses:D.
ppl who still worship idols in this day and age, not just one but many, are confused not smart imho
no its not personal. its just common knowledge.
btw you raise a very interesting question. ppl who still worship idols in this day and age, not just one but many, are confused not smart imho
so as opposed to what?
you commented on my 'smartness' - that is called getting personal
no its not personal. its just common knowledge.
btw you raise a very interesting question.
ppl who still worship idols in this day and age, not just one but many, are confused not smart imho
so as opposed to what?
^ There is a saying "success is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration".
Read an article a while back about some land masses (such as Australia) being isolated. So the aborigines did not have much communication with rest of the world. Even though they may have been equally or more advanced say 40000 yrs ago, being isolated from rest of the world, they could noto exchange ideas. While there was enough cross-polination of ideas among the rest of the world, leading to progress. So for progress to occur, diversity of ideas and culture is important.
India is far more diverse - the South and the North are like pardesis to each other in language etc. There is also great religious diversity. And diversity is good.
In fact, America's success is based on this concept - the universoties are a melting pot of cultures and ideas andn races.
Indians are not extra smart nor they are any more hard working.
What they are that they are simply 12-hour-shift-worker for an 8-hour work. :)
They might be hardworking true..but then it requires a certain level of smartness to be hardworking and not just plain loiter around. A person might be the smartest one in this world, but what if he is plain lazy and has no attitude to work.
Dharam Yudh shru ho gaya.