Re: arabization of islam - great article
You are right. Its never easy having an intelligent discussing with you since you have your very own views on everything related to Pak, Islam :)
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Your very own views, what a novel concept! Beats the heck out of relying on what other people tell you to think or relying on 100 year old medical reports.
Thinking for yourself is not overrated, I assure you.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Let us get personal....is that what you want? My comparison of Mithras to Christian Church made you huff and puff on me. Its ok...reality bites.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Not sure about the dinosaurs, but the original inhabitants of the land of Israel were the ancestors of the Palestinians today who were Jewish at first and then became Christian and then later on Muslims. The European and Caucasian Jews of Israel today are not Semetic like the Palestinians and cannot claim the land of Israel based on their supposed "Jewishness"
Please re-read your history of the middle east. While many Jews converted to Christianity, the faith was much more popular outside of present-day Israel and Palestine, and was embraced by far more pagans than Jews. Many of these Christians in Eastern regions went on to convert to Islam. There are Jews who are now of European ancestry, due to intermarriage and extensive roots in primarily Eastern Europe, but there are still millions of Jews who are Semitic, and not of European descent.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Please re-read your history of the middle east. While many Jews converted to Christianity, the faith was much more popular outside of present-day Israel and Palestine, and was embraced by far more pagans than Jews. Many of these Christians in Eastern regions went on to convert to Islam. There are Jews who are now of European ancestry, due to intermarriage and extensive roots in primarily Eastern Europe,** but there are still millions of Jews who are Semitic, and not of European descent**.
Im not sure on that either...can you back your statement with some facts please. THank you.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
There are three ethnic classifications of Jews, Ashkenazi Jews (primarily of Eastern European/Russian descent), Sephardic Jews (settled in the Iberian peninsula), and Mizrahi Jews, who I was speaking of. They were settled throughout North Africa and the Middle East, and are of completely semitic ancestry.
Here is a site with links to many other resources about Mizrahi Jews. They lived with muslims for hundreds of years, occasionally intermarried, and were generally on good terms. They also tend to be more laid back than Ashkenazi Jews. There was once a joke that Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews could have never created the state of Israel, they would have invited their neighbors in for coffee instead.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Let us get personal....is that what you want? My comparison of Mithras to Christian Church made you huff and puff on me. Its ok...reality bites.
Personal? Huff and puff? What posts are you reading? I care nothing about any Christan/Mirthras connection. You are right, a lot of Christian traditions are based on pagan tradtitions, no argument from me. To summarize:
- The subject of this thread was the Arabization of Islam which to my understanding refers to the culture of Islam, not the traditions and rituals
- Current Christian culture is not at all based on Mithraism. Traditions and rituals - perhaps, but culture -no.
- Christians don't believe Quran to be word of God or Muhammad to be a prophet, yet much of Islam's history, message and prophets mimics that of Christian doctrine, so a Christian has no other choice but to believe that Islam is a a copy of Judeo/Christian beliefs but with a new Arabic flair. So if Mithraism influenced Christianity, it goes without saying it also influenced Islam since Islam is a copy of Christianity, albeit with the spin of a new "final" messenger" - just as the movie Titanic *of 1997 was a copy of the 1953 movie, but longer with a few different players and a new hero. The reality is that Islam is greatly influenced by Arab traditions, rituals and *culture. That is the subject of this thread. That is what I am discussing - your attempts to implicate Christianity being influenced by Mirthristic* rituals* nothwithstanding. It's not even related. We aren't discussing Islamic rituals *based on Pagan traditins such as the acts performed during hajj, we are talking about the culture* of Muslism today. The Arabization of the culture.
And please don't play the *you are getting persona*l card just because I call you out for saying "it's never easy having an intelligent discussing with you since you have your very own view". As if having my own view is something to be ashamed of.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
but there are still millions of Jews who are Semitic, and not of European descent.
Yes, I agree, but the majority of the Jews in Israel are not Semitic as far as I know.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
^ true. Most are Ashkenazi as far as I know, followed by Sephardic.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Personal? Huff and puff? What posts are you reading? I care nothing about any Christan/Mirthras connection. You are right, a lot of Christian traditions are based on pagan tradtitions, no argument from me. To summarize:
- The subject of this thread was the Arabization of Islam which to my understanding refers to the culture of Islam, not the traditions and rituals
- Current Christian culture is not at all based on Mithraism. Traditions and rituals - perhaps, but culture -no.
- Christians don't believe Quran to be word of God or Muhammad to be a prophet, yet much of Islam's history, message and prophets mimics that of Christian doctrine, so a Christian has no other choice but to believe that Islam is a a copy of Judeo/Christian beliefs but with a new Arabic flair. So if Mithraism influenced Christianity, it goes without saying it also influenced Islam since Islam is a copy of Christianity, albeit with the spin of a new "final" messenger" - just as the movie Titanic *of 1997 was a copy of the 1953 movie, but longer with a few different players and a new hero. The reality is that Islam is greatly influenced by Arab traditions, rituals and *culture. That is the subject of this thread. That is what I am discussing - your attempts to implicate Christianity being influenced by Mirthristic* rituals* nothwithstanding. It's not even related. We aren't discussing Islamic rituals *based on Pagan traditins such as the acts performed during hajj, we are talking about the culture* of Muslism today. The Arabization of the culture.
And please don't play the *you are getting persona*l card just because I call you out for saying "it's never easy having an intelligent discussing with you since you have your very own view". As if having my own view is something to be ashamed of.
Peace Seminole
It can be proven: Islam is not a copy of Christianity and also it cannot be defined as Christianity influenced with pagan Arab culture.
Islam came to abolish the transgressions of the people who came before. As a clarification. So to one person it may look like a 'copy' but to another it is more than that it is 'from the same Divine source' similar but different and the difference is where people have put in their contributions to the Old and New Testaments. Islam is pure from reproducing the 'wrong' and inconsistent aspects of the previous scriptures. Humans blamed for copying could not have done this, because Arab pagan culture resembled Christianity more than Islam does in cultural aspects, but when Islam came not only did it refute Christian cultural aspects but it did a complete facelift to the Arabian culture too.
Furthermore there is documentary evidence that the Christian belief system was heavily influenced by the pagan beliefs. Not just traditions - but core beliefs. This cannot be said about Islam and Christianity, rather Islam picks out the Oneness aspect and puts it in a domain of 'beyond comparison' and reduces the 'three' aspect to human interpolation and lies said against Jesus (AS) in his name. The concept of 'triad' paved the way for 'Trinity' and that is adopted as core in the Church today.
Mithraism therefore was one of the major contributors of Christian worship and tradition but Islam made of point of removing those aspects that were later additions to the true belief. So Mithraism perhaps influenced Islam to the extent that Mithraism was ousted from anything that Muslims believe in or practice in our traditions.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Furthermore there is documentary evidence that the Christian belief system was heavily influenced by the pagan beliefs. Not just traditions - but core beliefs. This cannot be said about Islam and Christianity, rather Islam picks out the Oneness aspect and puts it in a domain of 'beyond comparison' and reduces the 'three' aspect to human interpolation and lies said against Jesus (AS) in his name. The concept of 'triad' paved the way for 'Trinity' and that is adopted as core in the Church today.
And there is just as much documentary evidence of Islam being heavily influenced by pagan beliefs - tradtions and core beliefs. It's only your faith and bais that tells you otherwise. I realize that a core Islamic belief is that Islam is a devine revelation and that its rituals came straight from God through Muhammad so I don't expect to change any minds. That is why I avoid such conversations, no where to go but insult people. Kind of like you do to Christians when you say their faith is based on lies.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Personal? Huff and puff? What posts are you reading? I care nothing about any Christan/Mirthras connection. You are right, a lot of Christian traditions are based on pagan tradtitions, no argument from me. To summarize:
- The subject of this thread was the Arabization of Islam which to my understanding refers to the culture of Islam, not the traditions and rituals
- Current Christian culture is not at all based on Mithraism. Traditions and rituals - perhaps, but culture -no.
- Christians don't believe Quran to be word of God or Muhammad to be a prophet, yet much of Islam's history, message and prophets mimics that of Christian doctrine, so a Christian has no other choice but to believe that Islam is a a copy of Judeo/Christian beliefs but with a new Arabic flair. So if Mithraism influenced Christianity, it goes without saying it also influenced Islam since Islam is a copy of Christianity, albeit with the spin of a new "final" messenger" - just as the movie Titanic *of 1997 was a copy of the 1953 movie, but longer with a few different players and a new hero. The reality is that Islam is greatly influenced by Arab traditions, rituals and *culture. That is the subject of this thread. That is what I am discussing - your attempts to implicate Christianity being influenced by Mirthristic* rituals* nothwithstanding. It's not even related. We aren't discussing Islamic rituals *based on Pagan traditins such as the acts performed during hajj, we are talking about the culture* of Muslism today. The Arabization of the culture.
And please don't play the *you are getting persona*l card just because I call you out for saying "it's never easy having an intelligent discussing with you since you have your very own view". As if having my own view is something to be ashamed of.
Seminole, I know Its not in your understanding of whatever I had mentioned on the Mithras regarding Christianity. And my very purpose was to let you know even Christianity had been influenced by a specific religion or/and area.
Christianity has changed over the years, so that It can't be said It has had influence only by the egyptian, the romans, the mithras, the hebrews (jews).
But when focusing on the influence by St. Paul and his teachings, who had most influence on the Christian Church Ideology (which was defined as such later), you will see similiarities to Mithras. I know Christians do not like this to be mention and many christian fundamentalists have had written bad about them. More over there is evidence of persecution of Mithras by Christians but thats another story. But do feel free debating on this issue with any christian historian, since you dont believe whatever I say.
Anyway I'd like to know which traces of arab culture are in Islam left. Please elaborate.
Over all these years Christian religion has changed and so have the tradition, culture. Mainly through reformations by the Church. But many ritiuals still performand are almost as old as the acient remains of Roman worshipping Mithras.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
And there is just as much documentary evidence of Islam being heavily influenced by pagan beliefs - tradtions and core beliefs. It's only your faith and bais that tells you otherwise. I realize that a core Islamic belief is that Islam is a devine revelation and that its rituals came straight from God through Muhammad so I don't expect to change any minds. That is why I avoid such conversations, no where to go but insult people. Kind of like you do to Christians when you say their faith is based on lies.
Well Seminole you are generalizing here. And If there is something or some one for believing your faith is based on lies then It's not the fundamentals of Christianity but due to the Church (Vatikan), which had a very negative influence on Christianity.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Yes, I agree, but the majority of the Jews in Israel are not Semitic as far as I know.
Yep, thats what I have read too.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
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Re: arabization of islam - great article
Some members on this forum are the very jahil illiterates we criticize.
Arabization is not restricted to learning arabic. It deals with desi uncles and aunties with arab names who believe wearing a abayah and keffiyah is an integral part of being muslim.
THIS IS WHAT ARABIZATION IS:
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Never seen a man wearing a pyjama in Britain…
Abbayah is cool…pyjama sucks
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Now make that understand Seminole.
Thank you :k: :k:
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Covering yourself up in a proper Islamic manner IS an important part of being a Muslim, but little would you know.
A proper Shariah-compliant Shalwaar (not the kurta in your picture with the gay skin-tight pajama) is certainly as Islamic as a thawb.
Re: arabization of islam - great article
Peace hskhan
Sorry I disagree with beard addition but the gaining of 3 belt sizes might be accurate hehehe only joking brothers !!!