Re: Arab Tablighis
Exactly the sunni/sufies/barelwies are on the defensive side - and its the other group on the offensive side - they want to become Asad Ullah and they want to bring others into their net by force or whatever!
Re: Arab Tablighis
Yes brother, whatever way they can. nice speech, tabligh or even terrorism but I have been looking at their religion (which is now seen as representative of islam due their control of Jazeertaul Arab (they even changed its name to their kings- saudi) and the huge resources they are misusing to spread their innovated version of Islam. I have found they are liars, and they are making up shirk allegations against us but those allegations actually carry through as fatwas of kufr upon the whole of Islam! -Sunnis are only upon these beliefs because Islam teaches us them, so who does their fatwa apply to?
Most people we find talking on Islam belong to these groups, so I am not popular bunny. In the past their tabligh has got through to me, and now that I know a bit about Islam myself - I want to know why they were misguiding me. Its retribution time, so the groups where nasibism (anti AhleBayt) breeds I call as they should be called.
One of the issues being discussed here is whether the Indian Sunni Ulema, in their prime back in the day, were right or wrong to label anti Prophet Muhammad SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam people as Kaffirs when they first arose in our region! I am receiving opposition for my stance for it because these groups motivation has been to see through those Kufr ideas and spread among people, and claim those ulema, who were unanimously labled as kaffirs by upto 400 sunni ulema, as rightly guided - Astagfirullah
Re: Arab Tablighis
^ Bro, judging from your posts seriously I dont find any difference between a barelvi and a salafi. The same takfir that they use if barelvis also start using then whats the difference?
Re: Arab Tablighis
I do not make takfir of salafis, i sometimes just say this is kufr, when it is. Nothing more nothing less. Kufr is not even Kaffir. The Takfir being talked about here has been applied by Sunni Ulema, I am talking about it only. Can you understand this?
Your question is so open ended that we could be here forever, explaining why and what.
Re: Arab Tablighis
Peace brother vroom
I think I’m going to take another approach with you … Perhaps you will understand my position.
Now, in Shaykh Hamza Yusuf’s audio translation on Sidi Ahmad Zarruq (RA)'s Poor man’s book of guidance … It states that there comes a point when a position is taken, but if there is a difference in opinion about that point then that is not cause for takfir, so long as the opinion is taken by an authority and is based on evidence. The layperson is not allowed to do takfir or deem something kufr unless it is EXPRESSLY kufr … So I have emboldened the words above … You say that sometimes say “such and such a thing is kufr … When it is” … But you need to also provide the source of that … It is not good enough to post an ayat or Hadith … Because then we are stuck again about what is behind the Hadith or ayat and whether our interpretation is valid. You need to show me that you have authority ('ijaza) to say the things you say … From your shaykhs. Are you an 'alim yourself?
My teachers forbid us from discussing matters of faith with others in such settings and require us to encourage finding common ground and understanding instead … At best I am allowed to say that such and such is your understanding, and I have a different one … But I cannot say “you are close to apostasy” … If you want to say that about me … Then I seek refuge in Allah (SWT) to protect me from the fitnah of your words … You say things so blatantly without any fear as if you are certain of a matter … It could be that such an attitude will earn you something of misguidance and He may send me your hasanaat … So be careful please in how you address the hearts of people.
If you have a matter that deserves to be known then please share it and provide your references and I shall study it and take it onboard inshaAllah … But please, give me room to differ if I have counter-evidence that satisfies my own heart and mind … For we are not sent here to convince one another of our truths … Are we? We are here to be guides and treat each other amicably … Knowledge is supposed to make us better people … So if we cannot see how your knowledge has made you a better person then we will move away from your knowledge and it could be that you might have something that is true, but your attitude may deprive us of taking it and Allah (SWT) Knows your heart and mine … Do we want to win an argument or arrive at the truth? I pray that Allah (SWT) puts the truth on your tongue and not mine so that I can submit to it … Ameen … (That is the Qawl of Imam Al-Shaafi) …
Re: Arab Tablighis
Not posting this to argue but the writer has caught my attention and interest he lists deobandis and tablighis as wahabis in this article Ibn Baz
Re: Arab Tablighis
@vroom, what is your definition of Ahle Sunnat wa Jamaat?
Re: Arab Tablighis
bro, any one that agrees with me of course!
Is there a point to this question? Make your point please
I personally use a topic based calculation to decide if a view is from Ahlus Sunnah
for example on Mawlid, Istighatha, Abdaal - any view highly contrary to >support< of these is unlikely to be from Ahlus Sunnah
there is a youtube video by the name of ’ Introduction to Aqeedah - Mufti Zahid Hussain ’ which tells the basis of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah
Here:
Re: Arab Tablighis
I am not going to watch a 43 minute video. But I was interested to know whether there actually exists a definition beyond, “one who agrees with me”, since every claimant to this name follows the same definition.
Re: Arab Tablighis
Its worth listening to if you really want a light understanding on the subject
Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah are those who believe in Mawlid [positively] and Istighatha, of visiting graves of awliya, Abdaal. Such is the support for it within Ahlus Sunnah Scholars
Other claimants to being Ahlus Sunnah do so based on their own judgement of their own beliefs being correct. Where as their beliefs are not inline with community [wal jamaah] but they follow Hadiths [sunnah] so they apply Ahlus Sunnah to themselves as well
Most of these non genuine claimants should not even be trying to name themselves as that because the hadiths for it are weak [very weak irc]. which goes against some manhajs to start with but belonging to the name has had benefits like fitting in, blending in, not being seen as outcasts for too long
Re: Arab Tablighis
^I always thought jamaah, in Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah, meant Sahaba kiram. Therefore, those who claim to follow Sunnah and Sunnah of Sahaba are Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah.
Re: Arab Tablighis
No Sahaba are an Elite group who experienced companionship with RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah are followers of the religion with a diluted connection to the early Generations
Some of the Salaf (Taba Tabieens) started to issue Basis and Fatawa for laymen. We started here by starting to record these
Re: Arab Tablighis
Well in that case, to best of my knowledge, none of the famous Taba Tabieen practiced the things like Mawlid, such as Imam Abu Hanifa or Malik that you attribute as essential for Ahle Sunnah Waljamaah.
Re: Arab Tablighis
No you didn’t hear me correctly, started i said. Started to. We are still issuing fatawa today
According to Us even Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala showed celebration of Mawlid to the people. it was celebrated and recited in poetry by the Companions RadiAllahu Anh, commemorated weekly by RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam Himself, What we innovated (iMAM SHAFI -salaf- DEFINITION OF INNOVATION) is an occasion called Mawlid only
And the religion required of us to make a call whether permissible or impermissible. Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah are in favor of it.
anyone who disagrees with Ahlus Sunnah is a [deviant same as misguided] as per us. Mawlid has such support - Ijma - that I have come to regard he who outright forbids Mawlid is MUBTADI/INNOVATOR/DEVIANT
Re: Arab Tablighis
You know a comment from you a few months ago is still on my mind. That is you said only the shias and barelvis believe in Abdaal. By that comment you are exactly the type of person who I would say I speak against. I do not know your sectarian affiliation but someone has sent you up the wrong tree. I do not know why you people are partaking in such propaganda but this deobandi article should at least make you gulp a bit of pride on the subject
Public » Askimam [not a reliable islamic site, but its ok for this purpose]
And if this does not teach you that you were wrong to make that comment, nothing ever will
Re: Arab Tablighis
^I do not think I made any comment about Abdaal and shia, I don’t know if shia even beleive in Abdaal. I do however, remember, commenting that only sufi brelvis and shias believe that humans have been given powers of execution in universe after death. I do not believe any solid proof exists to such belief and I do not believe in it.
I do not have any particular sectarian affiliations, been a brelvi, deobandi, wahabi at different times, but, now do not think of myself as particularly conforming to any one of them.
The thing about “ijma” is rather funny, I mean literally every single debated topic seems to have an ijma. That’s like everyone has a court order, but each court is different from the other.
I have briefly gone over the link you post, I find it strange that the last arabic text before “conclusion” states in first line that Ahadith about Abdaal some through Anas ra with different words are all weak**. (حديث ( الأبدال**** له طرق عن أنس رضي الله عنه مرفوعا بألفاظ مختلفة كلها ضعيفة ** )).
Yet in English translation, the author does not write this sentence?
Re: Arab Tablighis
Yes you did and what you described is known as Abdaal, (I remember now) you didn’t know that.
Stay out of debates and attacks then, appreciate different interpretations? watch tv? do something else, do not speak for religion
lets not talk about Ijma or majority position whilst you are in this state. Let me tell you in the best possible way. Brother you have been severely effected by the Najdi positions. Do not take the opportunity to take najdi positions to use against Ahlus Sunnah, although i can see the attraction. In that you get a chance to have a dig at people who do not usually throw any back. Do not do propaganda for them
What you are looking at is the scholar names who wrote about it and believed in the Abdaal, and especially those who said such and such person is an Abdaal
Weak or strong does not matter in this, we are not following wahabi rules here. We are looking at the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. Your comment see it above
What you said was wrong, if you can not accept or admit then…you obviously have other issues
Re: Arab Tablighis
There is no doubt there are awliya in this world and there is no doubt that they each have differing ranks some above the others, but the difference is whether they are aware and make conscious actions in line with their ranks and their allocated roles.
We do not know who is a wali or not or what rank he occupies and neither does he. Although they may be conscious of the miracles around them - their status will demand them to be self-veiling. All of the allocated roles for different ranks is subject to difference of opinion or are weak opinions and cannot be used to differentiate one person from another … As Muslims we should believe in the Friends of Allah (SWT), but we have no obligation to believe whether they occupy specific roles, but their ranks are purely determined by their level of consciousness of Allah (SWT).
Re: Arab Tablighis
It means the rightly guided community and that changes for each community in each time.
The close companions were the jammah for the Sahabah, their students from among the Tab’een are the jama’ from their generation and their students, and their students and then their students each taking license from their teachers to transmit and teach are the jama’. In loose terms it is consensus of scholars but the danger is scholars can be widespread who have not been given permission, so permission is necessary.
Re: Arab Tablighis
Cant we split the thread ?