How come there isnt any Arab or Malaysian Tablighi Jammat? Why just Pakistani?
It’s a very Pakistani thing, isn’t it?
Re: Arab Tablighis
No. They are all over the world, not just in Pakistan (or susbcontinent for that matter).
Re: Arab Tablighis
The amir of Tableeghi jamaat in our area is an Arab. But you are right, it is predominantly south asian thing, since the tarteeb was started by scholars there.
Misread that as arab teletubbies
Re: Arab Tablighis
Interesting.
Re: Arab Tablighis
and just today i was listening to bayan of this tableeghi arab
Arabs are present but due to government issues they are asked to do dawah among arabs in arab countries. i have seen/met with many jamaats of arabs tableghis. even one of the son in law of uae founding ruler is a tableghi.
Re: Arab Tablighis
How come there isnt any Arab or Malaysian Tablighi Jammat? Why just Pakistani?
It's a very Pakistani thing, isn't it?
Mano billee ... You could have asked me that question ... When I was living in Brighton a group came from Qatar of all places and they went out in their jubbas and walked along the sea front and a woman came to them and took Shahadah.
Re: Arab Tablighis
How come there isnt any Arab or Malaysian Tablighi Jammat? Why just Pakistani?
It's a very Pakistani thing, isn't it?
I have a very negative image of most things deobandi but In Sha Allah the opinion I am about to share is also true
The indo pak region was entirely Sunni [what would be recognised as Barelvi today] before the import of Wahabism. Its carrier was shah ismail [aprox 150 years ago], and I make the claim at this time the region was entirely sunni. Even 100 years ago when deoband was operational the region can still be said to be Sunni
The tablighi Jamaat operate with taqiyyah. This means they operate by bringing people to deoband back door way. Not the straight up way ''this is our beliefs bring your beliefs and lets have it out'' which would normally be route for a new religion or reformist organisation or sect. There is potential conflict on any new organisation
The potential conflict is in calling for something else, taking sizable following from the community which is in opposition to the positions of the local ulema. For example some important speakers of the salafi movement have spoken against tablighi jamaat, both in the arab world and indopak. I saw a thread of a salafi of deobandi background * complaining that the salafi (ahle hadith) have started to issue fatwas that praying behind a deobandi is impermissible where as the fatwas before were that it was permissible. This type of squabbling will occur any where the authority of the local ulema is being challenged. The ahle hadith, in this case, are now big enough to not need deobandi support
The organisation or at least its parent organisation (deoband) are so keen to be seen positively in the eyes of arabs that they are willing to lie and make unnecessary takfir upon positions that they hold themselves
Although i do expect a small amount of activity in the arab world, I am aware of another tactic which is ripe for this region. That is infiltration. So for example there is an ulema and a deobandi or deobandis become part of his circle. The circle becomes dependent upon the support provided thereby being afforded opportunity of influence
Similar influence can be gained through control of media, or a sizable portion of it
The mission can carry on in this manner. So as someone who is not keen on witnessing the spread of neither deobandism nor its inducing organisation [tj] I shiver when i hear someone influenced by them saying "..if your not good to them, they'll never follow you..'' Meaning one who believes himself so guided that he is calling to himself. Which is questionable to say the least. It is very regular to hear this, and the online tabligh has had almost complete monopoly of this mindset, at least where i have been visiting. This also shows how I view the mission of TJ, that they are possessed to spread their mission, and so are many of the children of the movement by influence.
So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is that the arab and even turkish markets have hurdles that are challenging to the overall objective, and so the tactics to grow in this region are naturally to be different*
Re: Arab Tablighis
I have a very negative image of most things deobandi but In Sha Allah the opinion I am about to share is also true
The indo pak region was entirely Sunni [what would be recognised as Barelvi today] before the import of Wahabism. Its carrier was shah ismail [aprox 150 years ago], and I make the claim at this time the region was entirely sunni. Even 100 years ago when deoband was operational the region can still be said to be Sunni
The tablighi Jamaat operate with taqiyyah. This means they operate by bringing people to deoband back door way. Not the straight up way ''this is our beliefs bring your beliefs and lets have it out'' which would normally be route for a new religion or reformist organisation or sect. There is potential conflict on any new organisation
The potential conflict is in calling for something else, taking sizable following from the community which is in opposition to the positions of the local ulema. For example some important speakers of the salafi movement have spoken against tablighi jamaat, both in the arab world and indopak. I saw a thread of a salafi of deobandi background * complaining that the salafi (ahle hadith) have started to issue fatwas that praying behind a deobandi is impermissible where as the fatwas before were that it was permissible. This type of squabbling will occur any where the authority of the local ulema is being challenged. The ahle hadith, in this case, are now big enough to not need deobandi support
The organisation or at least its parent organisation (deoband) are so keen to be seen positively in the eyes of arabs that they are willing to lie and make unnecessary takfir upon positions that they hold themselves
Although i do expect a small amount of activity in the arab world, I am aware of another tactic which is ripe for this region. That is infiltration. So for example there is an ulema and a deobandi or deobandis become part of his circle. The circle becomes dependent upon the support provided thereby being afforded opportunity of influence
Similar influence can be gained through control of media, or a sizable portion of it
The mission can carry on in this manner. So as someone who is not keen on witnessing the spread of neither deobandism nor its inducing organisation [tj] I shiver when i hear someone influenced by them saying "..if your not good to them, they'll never follow you..'' Meaning one who believes himself so guided that he is calling to himself. Which is questionable to say the least. It is very regular to hear this, and the online tabligh has had almost complete monopoly of this mindset, at least where i have been visiting. This also shows how I view the mission of TJ, that they are possessed to spread their mission, and so are many of the children of the movement by influence.
So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is that the arab and even turkish markets have hurdles that are challenging to the overall objective, and so the tactics to grow in this region are naturally to be different
I have 1001 problems with tablighis but i don't wanna talk about it.
Anyway, thank you everyone for taking the time to reply.*
Re: Arab Tablighis
the Emir-e-Jamaa'at of India, Prof. Nadir Ali Khan, was my Urdu teacher at Aligarh Muslim University. AMU is one of the biggest TableeGhii Center in India.
i used to dodge the Emir saab whenever he cornered me to 'kheeNcho chilla' in and around AligaRh. lol.
Re: Arab Tablighis
I have a very negative image of most things deobandi but In Sha Allah the opinion I am about to share is also true
The indo pak region was entirely Sunni [what would be recognised as Barelvi today] before the import of Wahabism. Its carrier was shah ismail [aprox 150 years ago], and I make the claim at this time the region was entirely sunni. Even 100 years ago when deoband was operational the region can still be said to be Sunni
The tablighi Jamaat operate with taqiyyah. This means they operate by bringing people to deoband back door way. Not the straight up way ''this is our beliefs bring your beliefs and lets have it out'' which would normally be route for a new religion or reformist organisation or sect. There is potential conflict on any new organisation
The potential conflict is in calling for something else, taking sizable following from the community which is in opposition to the positions of the local ulema. For example some important speakers of the salafi movement have spoken against tablighi jamaat, both in the arab world and indopak. I saw a thread of a salafi of deobandi background * complaining that the salafi (ahle hadith) have started to issue fatwas that praying behind a deobandi is impermissible where as the fatwas before were that it was permissible. This type of squabbling will occur any where the authority of the local ulema is being challenged. The ahle hadith, in this case, are now big enough to not need deobandi support
The organisation or at least its parent organisation (deoband) are so keen to be seen positively in the eyes of arabs that they are willing to lie and make unnecessary takfir upon positions that they hold themselves
Although i do expect a small amount of activity in the arab world, I am aware of another tactic which is ripe for this region. That is infiltration. So for example there is an ulema and a deobandi or deobandis become part of his circle. The circle becomes dependent upon the support provided thereby being afforded opportunity of influence
Similar influence can be gained through control of media, or a sizable portion of it
The mission can carry on in this manner. So as someone who is not keen on witnessing the spread of neither deobandism nor its inducing organisation [tj] I shiver when i hear someone influenced by them saying "..if your not good to them, they'll never follow you..'' Meaning one who believes himself so guided that he is calling to himself. Which is questionable to say the least. It is very regular to hear this, and the online tabligh has had almost complete monopoly of this mindset, at least where i have been visiting. This also shows how I view the mission of TJ, that they are possessed to spread their mission, and so are many of the children of the movement by influence.
So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is that the arab and even turkish markets have hurdles that are challenging to the overall objective, and so the tactics to grow in this region are naturally to be different
So what exactly are you saying that the TJ did?*
She is ignoring you even in the thread. Did you forget to wash the dishes again?
Re: Arab Tablighis
Something similar is happening here for identical reasons. Jamaats from US, are staying in the western hemisphere because of all the questioning that entails travel to Pakistan or India or Middle East.
Re: Arab Tablighis
I have a very negative image of most things deobandi but In Sha Allah the opinion I am about to share is also true
The indo pak region was entirely Sunni [what would be recognised as Barelvi today] before the import of Wahabism. Its carrier was shah ismail [aprox 150 years ago], and I make the claim at this time the region was entirely sunni. Even 100 years ago when deoband was operational the region can still be said to be Sunni
The tablighi Jamaat operate with taqiyyah. This means they operate by bringing people to deoband back door way. Not the straight up way ''this is our beliefs bring your beliefs and lets have it out'' which would normally be route for a new religion or reformist organisation or sect. There is potential conflict on any new organisation
The potential conflict is in calling for something else, taking sizable following from the community which is in opposition to the positions of the local ulema. For example some important speakers of the salafi movement have spoken against tablighi jamaat, both in the arab world and indopak. I saw a thread of a salafi of deobandi background * complaining that the salafi (ahle hadith) have started to issue fatwas that praying behind a deobandi is impermissible where as the fatwas before were that it was permissible. This type of squabbling will occur any where the authority of the local ulema is being challenged. The ahle hadith, in this case, are now big enough to not need deobandi support
The organisation or at least its parent organisation (deoband) are so keen to be seen positively in the eyes of arabs that they are willing to lie and make unnecessary takfir upon positions that they hold themselves
Although i do expect a small amount of activity in the arab world, I am aware of another tactic which is ripe for this region. That is infiltration. So for example there is an ulema and a deobandi or deobandis become part of his circle. The circle becomes dependent upon the support provided thereby being afforded opportunity of influence
Similar influence can be gained through control of media, or a sizable portion of it
The mission can carry on in this manner. So as someone who is not keen on witnessing the spread of neither deobandism nor its inducing organisation [tj] I shiver when i hear someone influenced by them saying "..if your not good to them, they'll never follow you..'' Meaning one who believes himself so guided that he is calling to himself. Which is questionable to say the least. It is very regular to hear this, and the online tabligh has had almost complete monopoly of this mindset, at least where i have been visiting. This also shows how I view the mission of TJ, that they are possessed to spread their mission, and so are many of the children of the movement by influence.
So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is that the arab and even turkish markets have hurdles that are challenging to the overall objective, and so the tactics to grow in this region are naturally to be different
you said a lot without actually saying anything. You sound like a GOP talk show host.*
Re: Arab Tablighis
So what exactly are you saying that the TJ did?
The Tj are the recruitment agency for deoband. So I don't know if you have noticed it, its hard not to have but you know there is lots and lots of Hardcore Loyalist Abdul Deobands around don't you? This and those who just identify as deobandis. This is the result of tj activities
you said a lot without actually saying anything. You sound like a GOP talk show host.
I was replying to Hareem after all, but there is lots of information there.
Re: Arab Tablighis
The Tj are the recruitment agency for deoband. So I don't know if you have noticed it, its hard not to have but you know there is lots and lots of Hardcore Loyalist Abdul Deobands around don't you? This and those who just identify as deobandis. This is the result of tj activities
I've met multiple people coming to our area as TJ but I've hardly heard any mention of Deoband from them. I admire their courage in doing what they're doing. I can't remember anyone becoming Deobandi because of them. But let's say you're right, what's wrong in what they've done? What I see is that they've made concern for people who didn't have deen in their lives and through their efforts I've seen many people reform and come back onto the right path.
Re: Arab Tablighis
^ Am not in Tableegh myself, but I can vouch what @Captain_Obvious said here. Am not knowledgeable enough to get into a theological debate about it, but what they are doing is very simple: asking people to pray regularly and take care of their Iman.
Re: Arab Tablighis
If you can not connect tj to deoband you shouldn’t really have an opinion
and nobody is judged but from a theological point of view
If they had called to Salah and good alone i would have been a supporter, I am not a supporter. Tells you at least my opinion
Re: Arab Tablighis
Tablighi jamat does follow Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaat's maslak in practice, and yes they are "Deobandis" per se, but they dont recruit for Deobandi school of thought. I have seen brothers from Indo-pak, arab, African Americans, white americans and many who become part of this effort, and they never have to change their core school of thought.
Re: Arab Tablighis
this thread is fast turning into Deobandis vs Barelvis...carry on guys!
btw, T-u-Q is on his way to Data Darbar...Police could NOT arrest him because he is MAFROOR! :Dab chhaape maare jaayeNge. :)