Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

‘all’ of who..exactly? Thank you

42

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?


Majority of Muslims is fool so it doesn't understand the trickery of Jewish-Christian-Think-Tank.

It is silly to think that Israel wanted or planned to wipe out Hizbulla. Has Israel been able to wipe out Hamas or any other Palestinian Resistance?
Has US been able to wipe out Talibans, though the war has been imposed on them for a couple of years?
The same is true in Iraq.
In short even Israel knew that it couldn't eliminate Hizbulla, so what they did was to achieve some objectives which we are probably missing:

  1. They have taught a good lesson to Lebanese civilians for the crime of harbouring Hizbulla.

  2. Now Lebanese civilians and Lebanese government have a good excuse to get rid of Hizbulla or at least not supporting them.

  3. Peacekeeping forces have entered Lebanon and the South Lebanon is going to be free of Hizbulla...
    and so a safer North for Israel.

Isn't it an achievement of Israel?

The criticism of Israelis to their government or their alleged defeat is a cover to fool already fools **of Muslims, they are making Muslims or Hizbulla believe that they won though they don't know that **they in fact lost.

43

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

We have to think in terms of the ordinary Lebanese. They were attacked by the Israelis no doubt, but the reason was Hezbollah. Imagine if you are a Pakistani, would you want a radical jihadi group controlling a large part of your country, acting as a state within a state? Would you support this group to run its own little government and indoctrination camps funded by external forces?

I cannot support any group in another country that I would not want to support in my own country. Hezbollah believes in shia unity over Lebanese unity.

44

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Call-center cheat sheet?

45

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?


I actually see someone running with tail.... wanna make a guess who it is?

I bet someone was betting on Israel really wiping Hezbollah off now the bitterness of defeat is making people comment like these.

46

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Here, follow the link and get the answer the original topic demands. Muslims are not the only ones claiming victory, the world (unbiased kind) is saying it. Only people with open eyes and big enough heart can see it. Dawn with Israel! Crush 'em!

http://www.crescentandcross.com/index.php?page=articles&author=joanna_francis&subpage1=hezbollah2

47

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

You are suggesting as if Hezbollah is a foreign element (AlQeda in Afghanistan).

[quote]
2. Now Lebanese civilians and Lebanese government have a good excuse to get rid of Hizbulla or at least not supporting them.
[/quote]

You probably don't understand what Hezbollah really means. Why did Hezbollah gain so much popularity post 1982? post 2000? There are reasons for people to ponder upon.

[quote]
3. Peacekeeping forces have entered Lebanon and the South Lebanon is going to be free of Hizbulla...
[/quote]

It is sort of victory for Lebanese government, they are betting on some international financial help as well help in disarming Hezbollah.... only time will tell if that really materialises.

48

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Off course time will tell, but you can't deny the loss of lives in Lebanon, destruction of infrastructer and private properties is the damage received by Lebanon and the new Buffer Zone is the achievement of Israel.

49

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Israel has accepted defeat.

50

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Hezbollah has won the battle. But the war rages on.
Israel has accepted defeat, and Arabs are easily deluded into believing that they've won, where infact, it is only a battle they have won. Nobody seems to see the bigger picture.

51

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

We have a great poem fully suits here

rangi ko narangi kahe,
phate dudh ko khoya
.....dekh Kabira roya!

52

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

The terrorist state of Israel did not acheive their goals, and therefore lost the war. Hizbollah won. I know it's tough to face for some of you. Maybe more pictures of crying Israeli terrorists will help.

The only thing Israel has shown with their "powerful" military, is how many civilians they could kill. Nice job.

53

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Exactly. The capture of two soldiers has happened many times in IDF history, yet has never resulted in a war like this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4792961.stm
Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah, and shared it with Bush administration officials, well before" 12 July, Seymour Hersh wrote.

Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah, and shared it with Bush administration officials, well before" 12 July, Seymour Hersh wrote.

Israel’s plan for an air war to turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah was “the mirror image of what the United States has been planning for Iran,” the article quotes an unnamed former senior intelligence official as saying.

And different US government departments which do not always see eye-to-eye all had their own reasons for backing an Israeli assault on Hezbollah, Mr Hersh claims.

The State Department reportedly saw it as “a way to strengthen the Lebanese government”, which does not control the south of the country dominated by Hezbollah. The White House wanted Hezbollah’s missiles eliminated so they could not be used as retaliation against Israel in case the US bombed Iran’s nuclear facilities, Mr Hersh says.

54

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

vietcong did not gain land against the US. and the US did slaughter countless civilians and destroyed infrastructure. they were driven out with the vietcong intact and their moral high ground completely lost.

think of this as a shorter vietnam.

55

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

I thing so too.. Isreal will be waiting for a moment when Hizb falters and give an excuse to Isreal to lauch into them. Isrealies were ill prepared for such combat and now next time they would be ready.. Hizb will do well by not meddling too much in Isreals matters

56

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

From above:

Israel was already prepared, this not the first time they have run into guerilla warfare.

57

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

In any competition you have a winner and a loser. If you say that Israel lost then by definition Hizbullah won.

Israel could have won had it chosen to use all its army in this conflict....but at what cost? It would have dragged on longer for months or years, economically it would have bankrupted Israel and Israel would have lost a lot more soldiers then they did now....we could be looking at thousands.

There is no point in trying to qualify Israel's defeat and making excuses for IDF. A loss is a loss. If Hizbullah also tries to learn, to overcome its deficiencies and is better prepared next time then the outcome will still be the same.

58

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Win or lose as as long as there are people living under occupation in Gaza, West bank, Shbe'a farms or Golan there will be war against occupation.

59

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Those who suggest Israel was being 'measured' in their response are being foolish. This has nothing to do with being 'nice'.

The fact that Israel did not send 100,000 soldiers rushing into Leb. simply reflects the new stratagem of war that America had developed during the second Gulf war...lighter, faster, with fewer resources. The logistical nightmare, not to mention the increased troop concentration (which guerillas have a field day with) make such deployments unthinkable for Israel. Contrary to what the media portrays, the doctorine more or less works. America won the second gulf war, or at least the conventional part of it, in a matter of weeks.

Where this strategy fails is in the post-hostility period, which invariably sees an increase in insurgent activity. That requires increased troop concentrations to manage. In turn, that increases the military profile in the occupied territory, resulting in increased body count. The paradox is there for all to see...happily for Hezbollah, that's not their problem.

In the future, Hezb. may well acquire the ability to reciprocate in damaging Israel's capacity to wage war (i.e. accurately attack civilian targets such as roads, bridges, airports, ports, power planets, etc). So long as no Hezbi fighter steps a foot onto Israeli soil, that would be most tolerated by the international power brokers.

Israeli air supremacy is all that remains...yet I find it difficult to imagine the Hezb. giving Israel a pretext for an all-out bombardment. We should question if that air power is absolute, or if Iran (via Russia) can provide the Hezb. with weapons systems that can thwart that too...such systems certainly exist.

The prospects look dim for Israel going into the future, and so from a purely strategic perspective, one can understand their strong desire to rid themselves of their foe once and for all. Thankfully, something akin to a balance of power (albeit quite skewed) has been reached, and so we can count on Israel being less the bully and more open to the realities of their role in the "new" middle east.

60

Re: Any Muslims embarrassed that so many are claiming victory for Hezbollah?

Well, have we found a new Saladin?

Hardly. Not a bit of Israeli territory was taken. They were not pushed into the sea. Hizbullah had no offensive operations, they were defensive, and counter-punching. Israel can almost certainly defeat Hizbullah, given some time, and some casualties. They will adapt in remarkably fast order, and if they had to fight in 30 days, Hizbullah would be decimated.

Israel will spend a lot more on the military, improve training, oust some intelligence staff who screwed up, and get leaders who can do things the old fashioned way. Despite all the proud puffery around here, this was at best a moral victory for Hezb/Arabs/Muslims. It is a feel good event. It really changes nothing other than virtually guaranteeing a rematch. Nasrallah's head will balloon, president Nutjob will see divine angels fluttering about and interpret this as a sign from God that he can misbehave without consequence. This is a destabliizing event.

We are no closer to peace. Lebanon is in ruins. The Jews feel theatened, and they will become more dangerous, not less. The Somali's danced around a downed helicopter, but the next day they still awoke in the same cesspool, and 15 years later the cesspool has not improved a bit.

Cheer improvements in education, tolerance, advances in science, economic conditions, medical care, any number of noble things. But let's not cheer the militia of a heavily armed warlord/cleric hiding in bunkers and having thier country reduced to rubble. In the end a moment of pride is really pretty meaningless.